Pitbull Priesthood Bouncer for the Lord

For a view of the life and artwork of Boyd Packer click on Boyd K Paradox - Artist, Apostle, Prophet, Enigma and for reaction to Packer's "For Young Men Only" sermon click on The M-Word

The following from:

http://www.bellsouthpwp.com/w/o/wol3/packebk1.htm

The Church often sees President Packer as a strict diciplinarian, without wit or sympathy. President Spencer W. Kimball wrote of an incident that gives the lie to that perception. President Kimball told of a sacrament meeting that Elder Packer, then an Assistant to the Twelve, had attended in Cuzco, Peru, in 1964. President Kimball described the scene of a little boy who was dirty and dressed in tattered clothes - apparently an orphan who lived on the streets - who came to the open doorway of the chapel during the sacrament service.

"Almost unobserved, he shyly came to the sacrament table and, with a seeming spiritual hunger, leaned against the table and lovingly rubbed his unwashed face against the cool, smooth white linen," President Kimball wrote.

The child was sent back into the street by a woman sitting on the front row. "A bit later the little urchin, seemingly compelled by some inner urge, overcame his timidity and came stealthily, cautiously down the aisle again, fearful, ready to escape if necessary," President Kimball wrote. "From his seat on the stand, Elder Packer caught his eye, beckoned to him, and stretched out big welcoming arms. After a moment's hesitation, the little Lamanite ragamuffin was nestled comfortably on his lap, in his arms, the tousled head against the great warm heart - a heart sympathetic to waifs, and especially to little Lamanite ones."

This incident took place in 1964... the last time any act of kindness was demonstrated by BKKKP.

In a follow-up to his now-famous speech in which he derided church members for focusing funerals on the lives of the deceased, President Boyd K. Packer yesterday convened a rehearsal funeral in the church's Conference Center.

"I said many years ago that a funeral is the best way to teach gospel principles to a captive--I mean receptive--audience," explained the octogenarian apostle." I decided that I would not leave anything to chance, so I set this event up to make sure everything goes as planned."

Accordingly, the Conference Center was decorated with large, but simple, floral arrangements. "None of those extravagant orchids and such for me," said a pleased Packer as he surveyed the bunches of lilies adorning the paneled dais.

At the appropriate time, members arose as an open casket made of polished Utah pine bearing the still-living corpse of the apostle was wheeled into the great hall. "I thought it was a nice touch and added some realism." Packer explained that he kept a small notepad and pen in the coffin with him so he could take notes as the rehearsal progressed.

"I was a little concerned with the enthusiasm of the opening hymn, 'Keep the Commandments.' We'll have to work on that some in the time before the real event."

The first speaker was Elder David A. Bednar, who expounded on the plan of salvation. "I suppose it was adequate," said Packer. "but it was missing some of his usual fervor. I suggested that he might imagine that those in the congregation were wearing multiple earrings, which I believe would fire his soul just a little."

The eulogy was given by President Thomas S. Monson, who began by telling a story of a young Boyd Packer rescuing a kitten from certain death.

At that point, Packer rose up in his coffin and rebuked Monson. "Now, Tom," he cried. "How many times do I have to tell you? This funeral is about bringing people into the kingdom! It's not about me!"

Packer's rebuke apparently startled several of the brethren, many of whom were apparently unaware that this was merely a rehearsal. Paramedics rushed to the aid of Elder Robert D. Hales, who has suffered heart problems in the past. "He scared the crap out of me," explained the apostle through his oxygen mask.

After Elder Hales was in the ambulance and order was restored, President Gordon B. Hinckley addressed the congregation. "What a great and marvelous work we are engaged in," intoned the 96-year-old church leader as he glanced repeatedly at Packer, who was furiously scribbling notes. "Well, it wasn't my cup of tea," said Packer. "But he's the prophet, and I'll not steady the ark."

The closing hymn, "Abide with Me" sounded a little better, remarked Packer. "But I'm thinking that 'Put Your Shoulder to the Wheel' might be a more rousing send-off."

After a benediction, the meeting adjourned and the mourners filed by the casket to shake Packer's hand.

"Truly moving," said an emotional Sheri Dew. "I feel that he's prepared us all so much for the eventuality of his passing, for which I am eternally grateful."

Packer great-grandson Todd Packer was heard to ask, "Mommy, is great-grandpa nuts or something?"

"No, son, he's a prophet, seer, and revelator."

I am ashamed to say that I am related to that cold hearted bastard Boyd Packer. I would love to kick him where it counts...

If you every have the chance to meet Packer face to face you will truly feel how uptight and cold this individual is.

What a jerk!

"Yes, and this is what I experienced:

"I have meet him face to face on several occasions and it wasn't pleasant. He would not look me in the face as I spoke with him and he would not have much interest in speaking to me or my father, who knows him fairly well.

"He is very serious in his demeanor and didn't seem to know how to smile whatsoever. I have also had dinner and spent several hours with him while visiting the the VP of Beneficial Life -- my college roommates father -- and I was further disappointed by his coldness.

"Anyhow, that is my take on it and everytime I hear his lame condescending ramblings I think of the cold man I met up with in the past."

If I remember correctly I am related through my father's aunt Lilian Millet, the genology guru who has since passed on. In fact we have stories of Packer praying with Lilian when see ran into road blocks tracing our genology and then the three Nephites came to the rescue by leaving some information on her door step.

You might think I am kidding here but that is a story in our family and I used to believe that crap.

As a TBM (True Believing Mormon), Packer started to open my eyes - by Flew the Coop

I remember the time in a public encounter, a young girl about 11 years old asked Packer if he had ever talked with Jesus Christ. He chided the little girl and her parents for the impertinent question. Ironic to come from a man who supposedly is called to be a 'Witness of Christ'.

Last night my wife and I went to Kingsbury Hall to see the Andrew Lloyd Webber Musical "Jesus Christ Superstar". To my utter shock and surprise...right in the middle of the classic Last Supper scene, Boyd K. Packer rushed the stage just as the actors portraying the original 12 apostles entered stage left. He grabbed a microphone out of Peter’s hands and started singing ...

Always hoped that I'd be an apostle
Knew that I would make it if I tried
I’ll write a silly book all about the gospel
So they'll still talk about me when I’ve died

Look at all my Malls and Cattle Stations
Tell the fools no tithing funds were used
Building earthly glory is my favorite passion
BYU will name a Packer building soon

Look at all my trials and tribulations
Can’t stage manage bears ... its hard to do...
Intellectuals, gays and woman’s rights will kill us
Political correctness...that won’t do

Lamanites...they use to be around us...
Now they’ve vanished thanks to DNA
Tell the membership ... I can see the future
I predict the Internet leads them away...

Always hoped that I'd be an apostle
Knew that I would make it if I tried ... And Hell I tried
By the Time I’m Prophet I will be a 100
God I wish that Gordon Hinckley would fucking die.

It was a great performance...I highly recommned the show.

Welcome to Home Cooking. I'm y'all's host, Paula Deen, and today we welcome a special guest all the way from Salt Lake City. Boyd Packer is here to tell us about his new book, "The Unwritten Order of Cooking." Howdy, Boyd, it's a pleasure to have y'all here.

BKP: Excuse me, but it bothers me that you referred to me as "Boyd Packer." Can't we have the full names on your show? There is a formality, a dignity, that we are losing--and it is at great cost. There is something to what Paul said about doing things "decently and in order."

PD: Oh, OK, sorry, Boyd.

BKP: That's "President Packer" to you.

PD: Well, now, what are y'all going to show us today, Boyd--I mean, President Packer?

BKP: I'm going to demonstrate how to make a proper loaf of sacrament bread.

PD: Sounds yummy!

BKP: We need to treat the sacrament with reverence, Paula, and I don't believe the Savior would have used a word like "yummy" to describe the Atonement. And another thing, I am a little disturbed at your appearance. Your hair seems overly teased to me, like it hasn't been combed.

PD: It's not polite to criticize a lady's appearance.

BKP: Is that a second earring? President Hinckley has warned you not to decorate your body with pictures or symbols that will never wash off or to pierce your body with rings or jewelry after the manner of the world. Don't you want to follow the prophet?

PD: Those earrings were a gift from my husband.

BKP: And those pants you're wearing. Do you know what "Sunday best" means? It used to be the case. Now we see ever more informal, even slouchy, clothing in our meetings, even on cooking shows, that leads to informal and slouchy conduct.

PD: What do my pants have to do with--oh, never mind. Can we start cooking, President Packer?

BKP: I'm somewhat concerned that my bishop wasn't allowed to prepare the script for this program. Bishops should not yield the arrangement of meetings, such as cooking shows, to members and especially not to nonmembers. It is not the proper order of things for members or families or writers or producers to expect to decide who will speak and for how long. Suggestions are in order, of course, but the bishop should not turn the show over to them. We are worried about the drift that is occurring in our cooking show appearances.

PD: Well, I had no idea. Can we please get started with the recipe?

BKP: Yes, now for our first step, please look away so that I might be able to work in privacy.

PD: But we need to see the ingredients.

BKP: That's just it. These things are kept confidential lest they be given to those who are unprepared.

PD: But how will we be able to learn the recipe?

BKP: Look, Paula, there is an order to things that must be followed:

-Order—To put in ranks or rows, in proper sequence or relationship.

-Ordain—The process of putting things in rows of proper relationship.

-Ordinance—The ceremony by which things are put in proper order.

PD: No one said anything to me about ordinations or ceremonies. I think we've gotten a little off track.

BKP: Maybe it's you who has gotten off track. I believe you are a single parent who works outside of the home, correct?

PD: Yes, that's right.

BKP: I'm sorry, but this is contrary to the will of God. I cannot, because of your discomfort over your plight, abandon a position that has been taught by the prophets from the beginning of this dispensation.

PD: I've done just fine, thank you very much.

BKP: To point out so-called success stories inferring that a career out of the home has no negative effect on a family is an invitation to many to stray from what has been taught by the prophets and thus cause members to reap disappointment by and by.

PD: But how would I support myself if I didn't work?

BKP: You need to see the eternal nature of things and to know that your trials -- however hard to bear -- in the eternal scheme of things may be compared to a very, very bad experience in the second semester of the first grade. You will find no enduring peace in the feminist movement. There you will have no hope. If you know the plan of redemption, you can be filled with hope.

PD: Who said anything about feminists? I thought we were here to talk about cooking.

BKP: Absolutely not. In such meetings as this, the gospel is to be preached. I know of no meeting where the congregation is in a better state of readiness to receive revelation and inspiration from a speaker than they are when watching a cooking show. This privilege is being taken away from us because we don't understand the order of things--the unwritten order of things--that relates to the administration of the Church and the reception of the Spirit.

PD: But this is my show.

BKP: Not anymore. I should like to take for my text today James 1:5.

PD: Can someone call security, please?

What is it with Boyd K. & hair? In 1976, I was a missionary in Denmark & attended an area conference in Copenhagen for all the Scandinavian countries. SWK & other general authorities were there. We were very excited because Boyd K. was going to have a special meeting with just us missionaries. Our mission president really had us hyped up & convinced Boyd K. was going to give us the magic bullet to get the work moving.

Guess what Boyd K talked about? HAIR!! I shit you not! He had a larger drawing board & illustrated how missionaries should comb & cut thier hair. He even had Elders stand up as examples.

Yes siree, if only we'd have combed our hair the Lards way many more Danes would have been saved!

What a farce!

INTRODUCTION

Speculation regularly arises, particularly at General Conference time, as to who may eventually ascend, by its death-defying ritual of musical chairs, to the presidency of the Mormon Church when Gordon B. Hinckley passes from the scene.

In some quarters, anxious note has been made that Apostle Boyd K. Packer may one day take the helm of the LDS Church.

One of Packer's biggest fans--at least for public consumption--has been fellow apostle Dallin H. Oaks.

Indeed, Oaks has spoken in glowing adulation of Packer, solemnly citing, for example, the senior apostle on what it means to supposedly receive divine "revelation. "

In a BYU devotional sermon under the title, "Revelation," Oaks said:

"I am going to speak this morning about revelation. Revelation is communication from God to man. It can occur in many different ways. Some prophets, like Moses and Joseph Smith, have talked with God face to face. Some persons have had personal communication with angels. Other revelations have come . . . 'through the dreams of sleep or in the waking visions of the mind' . . . In its more familiar forms, revelation or inspiration comes by means of words or thoughts communicated to the mind . . . by positive or negative feelings about proposed courses of action, or even by inspiring performances, as in the performing arts, the beautiful music we heard at the beginning of this devotional assembly being a notable example. "As Elder Boyd K. Packer has stated, 'Inspiration comes more as a feeling than as a sound' ("Prayers and Answers," Ensign, November 1979, p. 19)."

Moreover, according to Mormon sources who have been present at public events to witness Oaks' ingratiating and insincere hero worship, Oaks has bent over backwards in offering super-sweetened salutations to Packer in Packer's presence, heaping exceptionally high (some might say exceptionally obnoxious) praise on Oaks' senior partner in the Quorum of the Twelve.

If folks only knew.

Oaks has not always referred to Packer in such adoring terms--at least not in closed-door conversations.

Not only has Oaks criticized Packer behind Packer's back, he has then lied about his private attacks on Packer in public interviews with the press.

What Oaks really thinks of Packer (and then the extraordinary efforts Oaks has gone to in efforts to lie and cover up about Packer's abuse of ecclestiastical power) are detailed in Steve Benson's published account of private conversations Benson had with Oaks in September 1993, shortly before Benson left the Mormon Church.

Below are excerpts from Benson's note-taking encounter with Oaks:

________________

In an on-the-record interview with a newspaper reporter, [Oaks] blatantly misrepresented the truth about Boyd K. Packer's involvement in the excommunication of Salt Lake author, Paul Toscano--who had attracted scowling Church attention for, among other things, suggesting that members need not perpetuate a Cult of Personality by standing up when when General Authorities walked into the room.

Oaks had shared the details of Packer's involvement with [Benson] in a . .. "confidential" meeting on September 24, 1993 (also attended by [fellow apostle Neal] Maxwell). There, Oaks confessed that Packer had inappropriately injected himself into local Church action against Toscano, in the process violating Church disciplinary procedures and opening the Church up to a possible lawsuit from Toscano.

Referring to Packer as the source of these headaches, a frustrated Oaks told [Benson] "You can't stage manage a grizzly bear." When subsequently asked by the media about rumors that Packer had worked behind the scenes to get Toscano excommunicated, Oaks claimed ignorance and denied that Packer could ever do such a thing. . . .

________________

[Further details from the same account of Oaks' true feelings about Packer follow here]:

A question [Benson] posed to Oaks and Maxwell in the September 24, 1993, meeting concerned reports that Apostle Boyd K. Packer had been behind the excommunication of Paul James Toscano, a local Salt Lake City attorney, author and outspoken advocate for women's rights.

To understand the context of the question, it is necessary to review events at the time, as reported in the press.

Packer's suspected entanglement in the excommunication of Toscano became a subject of extensive media coverage in the fall of 1993. Toscano was excommunicated from the Mormon Church on September 19,1993, "for writing and speaking publicly about church doctrine, feminism, the state of the faith's leadership and other issues."

At the stake high council disciplinary hearing that ultimately sealed his fate, attention was focused on a Sunstone symposium speech Toscano had recently delivered, entitled, "All Is Not Well in Zion: False Teachings of the True Church," in which Toscano was alleged to have made derogatory comments . . . about general authorities." ("LDS Apostle Denies Ordering Dissident's Excommunication," Associated Press, 11 October 1993, sec, D, p. 1ff; and "Six Intellectuals Disciplined for Apostasy," Sunstone, November 1993, p. 66).

With the Mormon Church having recently disciplined the infamous "September Six" for activities relating to scholarship and feminism, speculation was rampant that Packer had been "behind the church's recent crackdown on dissidents."

That assessment proved to be well-founded. Five months earlier, Packer had warned a gathering of LDS bureaucrats that some Mormons "influenced by social and political unrest are being caught up and led away" by "the gay-lesbian movement, the feminist movement, as well as the ever-present challenge from the so-called scholars or intellectuals." ("Cartoonist Says Oaks Lied To Protect Fellow Apostle," Vern Anderson, Associated Press, in Salt Lake Tribune, 12 October 1993, sec. B, p. 1ff; and Boyd K. Packer, "Talk to the All-Church Coordinating Council," transcript, 18 May 1993, pp. 3, 4)

Packer, however, vehemently denied that he had been behind the banishment of Toscano. Specifically, he insisted he had not directed Toscano's stake president, Kerry Heinz, to convene a disciplinary council against him. While admitting to having met with Heinz to discuss Toscano, Packer assured the press, "We talked doctrine and philosophy. I absolutely did not instruct him to hold a disciplinary counsel and did not then, nor have I ever, directed any verdict. By church policy, that is left entirely to local leaders. When he [Heinz] left, I did not know what he would do." ("Cracks in the temple: Mormon unity in peril," Paul Brinkley-Rogers, The Arizona Republic, 10 October 1993, sec. A, p 1ff)

Packer further revealed to the Church-owned Deseret News that his decision to meet with Heinz had been made through a lower-ranking Church middleman. Contrary to Oaks' claim to me in our September 24th meeting that Packer had independently strayed outside approved channels of authority, Packer insisted that, in fact, he had been advised by "the brethren" to meet with Toscano's stake president.

Said Packer, "Even though general authorities of the church are free to contact or respond to local leaders on any subject, I felt there may be some sensitivity about his request. The brethren felt I could not very well decline to see a stake president. I therefore consented." ("Packer Says He Was Concerned by Request for Meeting, But Apostles Endorsed It," Associated Press, in Salt Lake Tribune, 17 October 1993, sec. B, p. 1ff)

Toscano was not persuaded by Packer's explanations. Reacting to Packer's admission of meeting with Heinz, Toscano said, "I knew all along that Boyd Packer was behind it. He's behind all this." ("Grandson of President Asks To Be Removed From LDS Church Rolls," Jennifer Skordas, Salt Lake Tribune, 11 October 1993, sec. D, p. 1ff)

In [Benson's] meeting with Oaks and Maxwell, [Benson] specifically asked if Packer had, in fact, been involved behind the scenes in the excommunication process against Toscano.

Oaks confirmed that Packer had.

Oaks told [Benson] he was "distressed and astonished" over Packer's decision to meet with Heinz, even though he said Heinz was the one who had called Packer and asked "for the meeting." Oaks said it was "a mistake" on Packer's part to have agreed to meet with Heinz, the latter whom Oaks described as "an old seminary man." (Packer had come up with Heinz through the ranks of the Church education system).

Oaks told [Benson] that, by meeting with Heinz, Packer had gone outside the bounds of his assigned responsibility. Oaks said one of his own areas of expertise was in legal affairs. Maxwell noted that one reason Oaks had been brought into the Quorum of the Twelve was to help rewrite the manual on Church disciplinary procedure. Oaks expressed concern that Packer's involvement with Heinz might lead Toscano "to sue the Church" over violation of his ecclesiastical procedural rights.

In the end, Oaks, with a note of resignation in his voice, said of Packer, "You can't stage manage a grizzly bear." . . .

_____________

[Additonal background on Oaks' public lies about Packer is further noted below]:

In early October, 1993, [Benson] accompanied Arizona Republic reporter Paul Brinkley-Rogers to Salt Lake City to assist him in making contacts with LDS leaders, spokesmen, educators and critics for a story on the recent purge of Church dissidents, notably, the "September Six."

On October 1, Brinkley-Rogers met for a prearranged, on-the-record, taped Q&A session with Oaks in his Salt Lake City Church office to discuss, among other things, recent Church action against the dissenters. [Benson] had not arranged the interview and did not join the reporter in it, as I[Benson] did not think it would be appropriate for [him] to do so. Moreover, prior to the interview, IBenson] did not speak to Brinkley-Rogers about what Oaks and Maxwell had told [Benson] concerning the Packer/ Toscano matter in [Benson's] meeting with them on September 24th.

At the conclusion of the interview, [Benson] picked Brinkley-Rogers up outside the Church Administration Building and asked how it went. He put the tape into the rental car cassette deck and pushed the "play" button. What [Benson] heard astounded --and angered-- [him].

Much of what Oaks had dished up for public consumption directly contradicted what he had told [Benson] in private. [Benson] was immediately aware of the bind that Oaks had put [him] in. He had lied to a reporter about events which he had described to [Benson] in much different terms. [Benson[] had no choice but to tell the reporter at that point that Oaks was attempting to pull a fast one on him.

So, there in a rental car in Salt Lake City, for the first time, [Benson] revealed what Oaks had shared with [him] in [their] September 24th meeting, pointing out the contradictions to what [Benson] had just heard on the tape. (see "Cracks in the temple: Mormon unity in peril," Paul Brinkley-Rogers, Arizona Republic, 11 October 1993, sec. A, p. 1ff) . . .

During the next five days, [Benson] privately struggled with how to publicly deal with Oaks' blatant dishonesties. [He] was torn between remaining quiet (thereby preserving a confidentiality agreement) or setting the record straight (thereby exposing Oaks' act of calculated deception). [He] spoke at length with [his] wife, friends, and colleagues--seeking advice and weighing [his] options. . . .

[Benson] finally decided to follow [his] gut--and [his] conscience. Oaks' misrepresentations--indeed, his out-and-out lies--prompted [Benson] to fax him a letter a few days after the interview.

It read as follows:

"6 October 1993
Elder Dallin Oaks
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
47 East South Temple
Salt Lake City, Utah 84150

"PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL"

"Dear Elder Oaks:

"I wish to share with you my concerns relative to our private conversation in the office of Elder Maxwell on September 24th, in relation to your subsequent comments to Arizona Republic reporter Paul Brinkley-Rogers on October 1st."

"In our September 24th meeting, I asked you if Kerry Heinz, Paul Toscano's stake president, had had any contact with, or received any instruction from, Elder Boyd K. Packer during the time leading up to Paul Toscano's excommunication. According to my notes taken during our discussion, you acknowledged that Elder Packer met with President Heinz prior to the rendering of judgment by the stake disciplinary council. You said that President Heinz was 'an old seminary man' and friend of Elder Packer during their days together in the church seminary system and that President Heinz 'called and asked for a meeting' with Elder Packer."

"You told me that you were 'distressed and astonished' that Elder Packer met with President Heinz. Referring to Elder Packer, you observed that 'you can't stage manage a grizzly bear.' You opined that 'it was a mistake for Packer to meet with Heinz and a mistake for Heinz to ask for the meeting."

"You further acknowledged that you later talked directly to Elder Packer and told him that you felt it was wrong and violated church disciplinary procedure for Elder Packer to have been in contact with President Heinz. You said that Elder Packer had no authority or responsibility to participate in such contact and you told me that you strongly urged Elder Packer not to engage in such contact in the future. You added that you fully expected Paul Toscano 'to sue' the church over this breach of procedural authority. "

"In contrast to what you told me in private, your public statements concerning the Toscano excommunication process and any participation of Elder Packer in it presented a far different picture. Mr. Brinkley-Rogers asked you: 'In the case of Toscano . . . do you have any evidence that Elder Packer [was] involved in any way in the decision-making process in the disciplining of [him]?"

"You responded: 'As for Elder Packer, Elder Packer does not have a specific responsibility for any area in the church . . . So, if Elder Packer is having any conversation with Kerry Heinz, it is outside the normal channel. That's all I can say. I have no knowledge of whether he did. But if he, and if he gave a directed verdict or anything like that, that is contrary to policy, it is irregular and it's contrary to what I know of Elder Packer and the way he operates. Elder Packer is not the least bit inclined to shrink from saying things like in the talk you saw [to the All-Church Coordinating Council, 18 May 1993]. He is a forthright, plain-spoken man, but Elder Packer is far too sophisticated and sensitive a man to call a stake president and tell him what he has to do in a church discipline case. I just don't believe that. What's possible is that a stake president might think he had heard such a thing; nobody can dismiss that possibility . . . that kind of slippage happens in communication. But Elder Packer has no, Elder [Loren C.] Dunn has a natural communications link, though an outdated one; Elder Packer does not. So, that's all I know about that at this point."

"Frankly, I find the differences between what you told me and what you told the press to be irreconcilable and ethically troubling. First, by couching your answer to the question of Elder Packer's conversation with President Heinz in the hypothetical, you falsely imply, it seems to me, that you do not know whether he did talk with President Heinz. Second, contrary to what you told me, you explicitly said to the reporter that, in fact, you were not aware if any conversations took place between Elder Packer and President Heinz. Third, your assertion that for Elder Packer to have talked with President Heinz goes against your knowledge of Elder Packer's modus operandi is contradicted by your admission to me that you knew that Elder Packer had talked to him and that you later talked with Elder Packer about it. Fourth, your blanket denial of knowing anything beyond what you told the reporter is completely undermined, I feel, by what you told me."

"In other words, you have told the truth in private about the Packer-Heinz meeting, while denying the truth in public."

"When you asked that I keep our conversation confidential, I assumed that anything you might subsequently say for the record on the matter would be at least honest, if not complete. However, what you said in public varies significantly from the facts as you laid them out to me. It appears that you have asked me not to publicly divulge our conversation in your hope that my initial agreement to remain silent would keep the accuracy of your public utterances from being challenged."

"I have concluded that to remain silent is unacceptable. It would be a cowardly and dishonest act. It would be analogous to having an individual come to me and say, 'Just between us, I killed my wife,' then turn around and tell the press that the next-door neighbor did it. I would have the clear moral obligation to set the record straight, since refusal to act would do violence to the truth and make me an accessory to the crime."

"I will not be a party to a cover-up. Your request for confidentiality, I believe, has been superceded by the fact that you have lied in public, contrary to the facts as you know them, and that your hope of confidentiality rests on maintaining the deception. It has been observed that 'a lie is like a blanket of snow. It may cover unpleasantness for a time but, sooner or later, must melt, exposing that which was hidden."

"To participate in this fraud would only serve to erode trust and destroy relationships."

"I would hope that you would feel it right to publicly set the record straight. Mr. Brinkley-Rogers' phone number is 602-271-8137. If you choose not to do so within the next 24 hours, I will have no choice but to undertake that obligation myself."

"Sincerely,

[signed]

"Steve Benson" . . .

Hell hath no fury like a cover blown.

Oaks responded quickly, calling [Benson's] home the same afternoon he received the fax, in an attempt to reach [him] . [Benson's] daughter, Audrey--six years old at the time--answered the phone, as Mary Ann simultaneously picked up the line on the other end and listened.

"Is your father there?" asked Oaks, in a stern, angry voice.

"No," Audrey replied meekly, "He's at work." . . .

Oaks did not have [Benson's] office phone number but he had the reporter's, since [Benson] had given it to him. (Oaks needed to do his explaining to the person he had lied to in the interview, not to [Benson]).

Oaks left a message with Brinkley-Rogers, who returned the call that evening, reaching Oaks at home through the Church switchboard operator (CSO).

Below is the full transcript of the ensuing conversation between Oaks (O) and Brinkley-Rogers (BR), taped by Brinkley-Rogers (which he later allowed [Benson] to audio-copy and which copy is currently in [Benson's possession). It is reported here with permission of Brinkley-Rogers.

CSO (choir music in the background): "LDS Church Offices."

BR: "Yes, good evening. Uh, this is Paul Brinkley-Rogers calling from Phoenix."

CSO: "Yes."

BR: "Concerning Dallin Oaks' call. He asked me to call the switchboard."

CSO: "Yes. Just a moment, please, while I"--

BR: "Thank you. Thanks a lot."

CSO: "Go ahead, please."

BR: "Thank you."

O: "Hello, Mr. Brinkley-Rogers."

BR: "Good evening, Mr. Oaks. How are you?"

O: "Thanks for calling back."

BR: "Well, thanks for calling me."

O: "Let me put the robe on and go in another room, where I can be comfortable."

BR: "OK, sure."

O: "Thank you for calling back."

BR: "All right, sir."

O: "Somebody has called me a liar and I don't like to (inaudible) to that on a charge like that."

BR: "Oh, all right. How did that happen?"

O: "Uh, well, let me explain. I received a very disturbing letter from Steve Benson."

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: "He compares what I said to him in a confidential setting, relating to Church issues, with a transcript of the interview that I had with you"--

BR: "Yes."

O: --"and accused me of lying."

BR: "Hmm."

O: "And I'm a truthful man and I care for my integrity and, uh, and I, I take no, uh, no little, uh, concern for something like this."

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: "Before I talk with you about it, let me ask you a question"--

BR: "Sure."

O: --"so you'll understand why I need to ask that before I speak about this."

BR: "All right, sir."

O: "What I would like to know is the relationship between you and Steve Benson in this matter. Specifically, was Steve on a reconnaissance for you when he asked about two weeks ago for a Church interview and came into an interview, in an ecclesiastical setting, which is the occasion of this comparison?"

BR: "No, I, I had no idea that he even did that."

O: "I didn't think so."

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: "Uh, let me ask a follow-up question."

BR: "Sure."

O: "Uh, is, are you involved in any kind of an effort that Steve is now making to extort information from me--and I use the word 'extort,' uh"--

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: --"advisedly."

BR: "Yeah."

O: --"to extort information from me in behalf of you?"

BR: "No. I'm not aware of any such thing."

O: "Now, he had, the reason I had to ask that is that he had the manuscript that was our interview."

BR: "Yeah."

O: "And he was comparing that with notes he'd made earlier when he had a conversation"--

BR: "Oh, I see. No, I played the tape for Steve of, uh, our interview, you know, after the interview and I noticed that he looked sort of surprised by it."

O: "OK, well, then, I, I take that at face value."

BR: "All right."

O: "And, and you, what I'm going to tell you why, I, uh, oh, why I was aroused by this."

BR: "Uh-huh."

O: "Now, I assume, as I told you at the time, that you're a professional journalist"--

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: "I assume, I take The Arizona Republic at, at face value. Uh, uh, it seems to me like it's been very professional and, and I deal with you in that light."

BR: "All right, sir."

O: "And I assume that neither you nor The Republic want to be used in Steve's grievances against, and controversies with, his Church"--

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: --"that are rather considerable, uh, uh, controversy with his Church."

BR: "Uh-huh."

O: "I was trying to do, to deal with that in having a confidential interview with him."

BR: "OK."

O: "And now he, he has drawn in this letter to me, he's drawn these two things together"--

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: "And I'd rather deal with you separately"--

BR: "You mean this conversation with you, uh, compared"--

O: "His conversation with me"--

BR: --"compared with the tape?"

O: "Compared with the tape, and that's, uh, what I'd like to do, is deal separately with you."

BR: "OK."

O: "And I assume that you don't want to get involved with Steve's controversies with his Church."

BR: "No."

O: "I assume that that's part of your professional approach to this and if I, if I can deal separately with you, independent of Steve Benson"--

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: --"then it's, then it's much easier for me to (inaudible) my problems."

BR: "All right, so let's go ahead on that basis."

O: "OK, good. Now, when (cough) I received this letter from Steve, which was, uh, a very accusatory letter"--

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: --"and, uh, I presume that you don't know about its contents"--

BR: "Right."

O: "But when I received this letter, which I did this afternoon about 5 o'clock"--

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: --"I got the transcript out and reviewed it very carefully, the transcript of my interview with you."

BR: "Yeah."

O: "When I did that, I saw one sentence in my interview with you--and only one sentence--that I would say overstated the truth."

BR: "OK."

O: "And that sentence I want to correct."

BR: "All right, sir. Fine."

O: "And I am sorry for it, but in a, in a, our, our interview was 60 minutes long and, you know, I was shooting from the hip (inaudible) along"--

BR: "Yeah."

O: --"and it was one of those things, which called to my attention, is inaccurate and I want to correct it."

BR: "All right."

O: "The, the, the only thing I can see that I want to correct."

BR: "OK, sir."

O: "And this is a, is a, uh, oh, about one-fourth of the circumstances that, uh, that, uh, Steve cites in his letter, because I looked, uh, I looked at the others and, and, uh, I think that, uh, I, I don't, uh, feel any necessity under my commitment to integrity to make any change in what I said."

BR: "OK."

O: "But in this one instance, I do."

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: "The sentence is, is toward the end of the interview."

BR: "Yeah."

O: "It is the, the last paragraph of the interview."

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: "I'm looking at the transcript that was made from the recording when made here."

BR: "Yup."

O: "It's, uh, it's in this talk about the Kerry Heinz matter"--

BR: "All right."

O: "And the sentence is this, about having a conversation: 'So, if Elder Packer is having any conversation with Kerry Heinz'"--

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: --"'it is outside the normal channel'"--

BR: "Yeah."

O: --"'that's all I can say. I have not'—"my transcript says that. It must be 'no'"—'I have no knowledge of whether he did.'"

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: "That's the sentence that should be stricken."

BR: "OK."

O: "If you'd just strike out, 'I have no knowledge of whether he did'"--

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: --"then I'll stand by the transcript of things that I said to you, but that statement, 'I have no knowledge of whether he did'"--

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: --"was, uh, as I looked back on the transcript, I think that's inaccurate and I want to withdraw that."

BR: "All right. Now, um, I guess my question is, do, do you have knowledge that he did that, in that case?"

O: "Now"--

BR: "Is that what we're getting to here?"

O: "Let me just, uh, let me just say this"--

BR: "All right, sir."

O: "Uh (clears throat), when I met with Steve Benson"--

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: --"Uh, I was trying to help Steve Benson in a matter, a Church matter, that does not concern the subject of our interview."

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: "In the course of doing that, I spoke to him confidentially and in a privileged relationship"--

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: --"and, uh, I think his letter and the things he says in his letter, abuse that privileged relationship, uh, in a really, uh, well, I'll stop there."

BR: "OK."

O: "And, and I, uh, [Steve] also says some things in his letter which he may share with you, I don't know"--

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: "But he, he claims to have notes of things that I've said in the, in the conversation with him"--

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: "I don't affirm his notes."

BR: "OK."

O: "If he shows you a copy of his letter"--

BR: "Uh-huh."

O: --"I certainly don't affirm his notes"--

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: --"and I'm not either admitting or denying things that I, I was speaking there in a privileged relationship and I don't think that it's fair for Steve, uh, nor is it fair for me"--

BR: "Yup."

O: --"to go into a privileged relationship"--

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: --"and for me to affirm or deny his notes, so I, I simply stand silent on what he claims took place"--

BR: "Right."

O: --"in a privileged conversation and, as a journalist, you'd understand the privilege."

BR: "Uh-huh."

O: "I think his notes are quite self-serving, but that's, that's simply my, my perspective."

BR: "OK."

O: "But what I am saying is that I just don't choose to go, uh, I don't choose to be—what's the word I'm looking for?—leveraged"--

BR: "Hmm."

O: --"into saying anything more than I said to you in the interview by Steve Benson's use of privileged information."

BR: "Hmm-mm."

O: "So, to answer your question, I'd say that I just don't choose to affirm or deny."

BR: "OK."

O: "But I do wish to withdraw a sentence which, as I read it on the transcript, is inaccurate."

BR: "All right, sir."

O: "So, I, if you will do me the favor of striking out that, you do whatever you want with what remains."

BR: "All right, sir."

O: "And I'm glad to defend whatever remains, but I cannot defend that sentence."

BR: "All right. Well, it's clear to me."

O: "All right. And I appreciate that and I appreciate the opportunity of being able to speak to you as a, on a professional basis and I, I must tell you that I make this phone call because it distresses me when somebody claims that I lie."

BR: "All right. Well, all right."

O: "Because I don't do that."

BR: "OK, sir."

O: "Well, I appreciate the opportunity to visit with you and thank you for calling."

BR: "Thanks for calling me."

O: "OK."

BR: "Bye-bye."

O: "Bye-bye."

http://twincentral.com/site/pages/articles/doctrines/alt/LDS/stevebenson.htm

CONCLUSION

Don't believe what Oaks says for the cameras about predator prophet-in-waiting Packer.

Behind the scenes, Oaks compares Packer to an animal that is out of control--then turns around and lies in public about what he actually knows about the man.

Oaks certainly knows what side his bread is buttered on.

He struts like a Dark Ages papist
Thinks each "queer"'s a wanna-be rapist
Protesting too much
That some men might touch -
Could Boyd himself long to turn escapist?

Being a member of the faith, a building contractor and in a favored status with one or more of “The 12” can mean a steady stream of generous income in fairytale land of Utah Mormonism. Unfortunately, lurking in the dark and hidden forests of this never never land, are a few ogres, trolls, and other beasts that can turn the best of these sacred god given financial blessings into a downright hellish curse.

One such contractor learned his lesson back about 20 years or so ago. Having persuaded the church building committee that he would be the best choice for building a new chapel in what was at that point in time a rather upscale and secluded area of the southeast part of the Salt Lake Valley……. he quickly learned of his mistake…….

A short drive from the exclusive Willow Creek Country Club and golf course in Sandy Utah, Little Cottonwood Creek flows through a low lying neighborhood east of Highland Drive and just north of Creek Road. The creek has at times been known to turn into a raging river and has a tendency some years to overflow its banks during the snowmelt runoff in the spring…. But as with other buildings in this affluent area, permission was given to allow building of a chapel in a known flood plain. It was about this time that the unfortunate builder learned that this particular chapel was to be different than any of the others he’d ever built.

Special zoning waivers had been given, one allowing access to a secluded exclusive drive (Forest Bend Lane) by way of the church property, behind the chapel. Another waiver, allowing about a dozen residential mailboxes to be placed on Church property at the entrance to this drive was granted for the occupants of this seeming private drive. Signs at the entrance to the drive warn anyone wanting to venture there, that it is a dead end drive with no trespassing allowed and include a plethora of “neighborhood watch” signs posted in several places along the winding narrow lane.

As the building of the chapel began, the contractor was surprised to learn that there was a daily visitor who was about to make his life and job a living hell. On his way home from work everyday, the esteemed and spiritually gifted and driven BKP would be stopping by to weigh in with his comments on the building of this edifice, as he happened to be one of the very private occupants of the little “private” lane behind the chapel.

Criticisms of the construction job were endured by the builder on a daily basis, upgrades were demanded, and other concessions were granted all at the behest of BKP. Any inflection that the contractor subtly gave to BKP in question or challenge was met with rebuke and reminders of who he was talking to.

Drive through the parking lot of the chapel and it becomes evident that there are some unusual decorative features to the buildings decadent exterior. Decorative street lights, eves, window coverings, columns, and steeple all exceed normal standards set for LDS chapels. The inside is full of similar upgrades….. As the building’s construction proceeded, the contractor became aware that many of the upgrades requested by the daily visitor were not included in the plans or the buildings budget.

Watching his tidy profit on the building slowly eroding away, the contractor began complaining to the higher level mucky mucks at COB, who could arrange to kick in a few extra tithing dollars to make him whole. Problem was… BKP already knew the building’s budget and let word out that no more was to be spent on this building than any other…. It was then that the contractor learned the hard truth of “being honest in your business dealings” – that it doesn’t always apply to those who make up the questions… those of us close to these projects kind of felt bad for the contractor, but it was evident that he’d drawn the wrong hand in the dealing of the cards and this time his luck had run out, there was no one who dared to try and tame the beast while he was devouring his prey.

Don’t worry, the contractor kept his testimony (at least for the purpose of his business interests) and was awarded many more church building contracts in the future. So remember….. As the scriptures say: Don’t build your house on sand… but if you do, be sure to watch out for those who might huff and puff and blow your profits away….. - FCI

On the topic of BKP

My late father had some dealings with him years ago while BKP was still an assistant to the vaunted 12. Pops was a member of a board for one of the organizations of the morg and worked in admin at BYU. He only questioned BKP's judgement once. It seemed to him to be a simple and non threatening effort to add something to the discussion that might help.

The only response from BKP, uttered in a condescending tone - and I quote - was, "Just whose authority are you questioning here?". Beginning and end of discussion. Dad said it wasn't a fun experience.

I knew one of BKP's sons who worked at BYU. He belied his insecure nature by his attempts to be authoritative and in charge. He, like his father, relied completely upon formal authority, having no other kind available to him. The apple fell very close to the tree. - butch cassidy

More on the little chapel that BKP built

I grew up attending the Union 5th Ward which is one of the two wards housed by the "little chapel that BKP" built. The mantra from our bishop at the time was "no more money was spent on this building than any other building in the church". I didn't figure out why this statement was so necessary until we moved into our new building.

I was around 14 years of age when the building was dedicated and was surprised to learn that not only was BKP going to dedicate the building, but that he lived around the corner. The building was far fancier than any other mormon church I had ever been in. It had real walls made out of actual drywall (instead of the standard cinderblock), nice carpet, pleasing pastel colors, brass light fixtures, attractive furniture in the foyer and it even had a set of staircases with 2 rooms at the top. I had never been in a 2 story mormon church before. Now the downside of the place: everything in it was incredibly small. We had a big ward, so conditions were incredibly cramped. Each classroom seemed like it was the size of a closet. Parking was almost non-existant. People had to park creatively in order to attend services. Because of this, they had to renovate the building because it was just too small. They added to the structure and increased all of the classroom sizes to a more usable space. They also had to buy more property from the farm/house next door to increase the size of the parking lot to a more usable size.

I can only imagine that it cost a small fortune to fix the building that "didn't cost any more money than any other ward house in the church". - clydefrog

I was just reading a bio about my mission prez, Elder Ballard, and it contained an anecdote about Boyd Packer's visit to the Canada Toronto Mission in 1975. Packer praised Ballard for being humble and teachable. During his visit, I attended a missionary conference at which Packer addressed the controversial LDS doctrine and policy concerning blacks and the priesthood. He stated that it was an internal matter and that if people asked about it to tell them it was "none of their business." I was surprised and disappointed at his attitude. I accepted the LDS position as inspired, but wished that the Lord would change it. I thought Latter-Day Saints should be humble about it and state that we were being obedient to Heavenly Father's will, but that someday all men would be eligible. It seemed to me that Packer was on an ego trip.

Naturally, I didn't speak ill of the Lord's anointed and kept this opinion to myself. I'm unsure who was stupider, Packer or me.

Years ago, Boyd Packer's daughter was married to a student at BYU, and they lived in Provo. Her husband's little factory was working, and she had a baby at Utah Valley Hospital.

It was 1973 or 1974, as I recall, and families were not allowed in a daughter's hospital room when a baby was born--just the husband. That is the way it was then.

Elder Packer and his wife came to Provo, and went to the hospital to see their daughter. When they asked to go to the daughter's room, they were told it was against hospital rules.

It created a firestorm. Elder Packer looked at the nurse, and demanded "Do you know who I am?" The nurse, taken aback, assured the church leader she did know who he was, and told him the rule again. It did not work, of course, because no-one tells Boyd Packer "No."

Word of the incident got around the hospital very quickly. So did the example set by Elder Packer. Many never forgot it.

At the wedding of one of his sons Packer insisted on having everything mapped out in detail 'for security reasons'.

Of course, wedding guests don't follow everything preciseley, so Packer had an outburst. It was a wedding, for god's sake, not a Nazi rally where everyone had to march in lockstep.

When the couple cut the cake they laughingly shoved food into each other's mouths. This Packer had expressly forbidden. Another outburst by Packer because the couple had disobeyed him.

And BTW I bet none of you knew that, when the Packer family sat around the table eating dinner, once dad was done eating everyone else had to stop eating too. It did not matter if they were done or not.

Ah, life in the home of a GA.

I was in a restaurant once and this loud speaking old guy two tables away was talking about how he'd been a Mission President in Europe and was good friends with Packer, who came through often.

He said he once told Packer about one missionary who had just insisted on going home a little early so he could start his advanced degree at BYU. Packer pulled out a notebook and wrote down the guy's name. "We'll see about that!" Packer said.

The ex-MP proudly said the kid had to go to school somewhere else, he was obviously telling the entire restaurant how important he use to be!

Yeah, I am not making this up! I literally saw what I am 98% sure was the second in command of the TSCC (The So-Called Church) and yes the cause of so much mental anguish to so many of us here in the exmo community. He was in line at the Murray/Fashion place Comp USA store yesterday. I can't say it was he with 100% certainty because he looked about 70-80 years old and as BOYD has much seniority in the Mormon machine I wondering if he would be older. Does he have any younger brothers or perhaps an eldest son that is a spitting image of Brother Packer?

It all happened like this. I had woken up yesterday morning planning on going to the gym and putting in 8 hours work towards saving up money for another run at completing my education. I realized that I was out of CD-R's and blank DVD's so I went to Comp USA to get some more as I didn’t have time to look through the Sunday ads for good deals. Ironically, one of the downloaded movies I was putting on to a DVD was Eyes Wide Shut, a film with very heavy secret society overtones, you know kind of like Mormonism.

I arrived at the store, grabbed my goods and got into the queue behind some yuppies watching the ever-present Fox News on the flat screen TV. As the lines were long a cashier opened a new queue and I was lucky enough to be the first for the new line.

I stepped up to the counter and the cashier began to ring up my purchases. While he was doing this I happened to glance around the store, and as I looked to my right I gazed upon a visage that would fill me with total shock and surprise. Now, if people doubt that it was the man himself based on what I have described I'm telling you it was truly him: he had those same seminary teacher glasses, gaunt joyless face/facial features and beady calculating eyes that we have all been exposed to a hundred times during conference broadcasts. I later went on to the Latter Day Lampoon and checked photos of Boyd's face and I swear it was him.

Also, as I understand it, he lives up by the golf club in Sandy and it is only a short drive from Creek Road and Fort Union to the mall. Now, he wasn’t dressed in the GA suit we have come to expect of one of the Laaard's anointed, in actuality he was dressed exactly like all of the other typical yuppie corporate shoppers that can still afford to buy PC equipment in this depressed economy at Comp USA. He wore a modest 2002 Olympic jacket, a yuppie casual shirt, and higher quality jeans and some casual dress shoes. You know those black ones all of you well to do 40-60 year old guys wear.

Also he was not alone, Packer was accompanied by a large man about 6'3" though older, past middle age, who may have been perhaps a minion or confidant from the church security dept. He also looked like he was trying to avoid eye contact with the other customers, undoubtedly to avoid both the fawning TBM (True Believing Mormon) sycophant eager to grovel before an anointed one and perhaps a smartened up exmo like myself.

Before I express the meat of the thoughts that ran through my head during all of this I want to strongly state that he in no way gave off an aura that in any way radiated divinity or spirituality. In fact this short aging businessman gave off no more of an aura than the cashier, the guy at the help desk, or the clowns watching fox news. In fact, as my eyes caught this geezer trying to desperately avoid everyone's gaze I was struck by how very ordinary and unremarkable the man was.

Now I cannot describe the emotions that ran through my head. Your see I can easily and unequivocally state that Boyd K. Packer, well, some of his attendant teachings f***ed up my life and f***ed it up bad! You see I was a very naive TBM BIC (Born in the Covenant) kid who, well lets just say the churches teachings regarding the famous little factory caused my extreme pain and neuroses (for all of you TBM trolls, enter Boyd K Packer and masturbation in Google and see what comes up) from puberty until I smartened up to the church at age 22.

I even had the integrity to confess this perfectly normal (nothing perverse) to my hard ass,righteous earthly judge bishop when I was 19 years old, about 1998. I was not allowed to serve a mission because of frankly, my honesty and my desire to do right by God. Its okay if you're laughing. I laugh about it now too. Yeah, there have been discussions many times about how all 19 year old kids lie about this, confess other stuff but are let off because of connections, status, etc.

Also our hardcore bishop friend was later rumored to have been nearly excommunicated for using church funds to put a new roof on his house. A really righteous fellow he was. My youth was filled with pain as the insane teachings of Spencer W. Kimball (Miracle of Forgiveness) and Boyd (Famous Little Factory Speech) invariably clashed with normal feelings regarding human sexuality.

The sociological effects of my honesty (Yea this raising the bar shit encourages kids to lie about stuff like this now for sure) was also real as I spent the years of my life 18-21 trying to make myself worthy and working shit jobs. People are not inclined to hire Mormon young men who don’t go on missions as the stigma of being lazy or a sinner of some sort is always applied. I was also to stupid at this time to go to college, as all I wanted to do was clean my self up from a painful and troubled youth (My self esteem was low in my teenage years and I had gotten into drugs though I was sill a true believer) and integrate myself into what I believed was the most true organization on earth.

Now what I am going to say may sound extreme to some. But the thoughts that I had were like a person confronting their worst enemy; like a rape victim running into the perpetrator randomly on the street. I am not going to lie, for the first 3/4th's of a second after I realized whom I shared a room with I was filled with pure rage.

Two words burst into my head instantly, Blood Atonement. (Being a history major, and the Mormon history buff that I am I was reminded of brother Brigham's teachings, everyone should read up on this subject.) For that brief moment in time, the only thought pouring through my head was the law of the jungle, this man had by his organization and teachings, filled my youth with neurosis had almost literally cut off my balls. (The whole masturbation thing had lead me to be really horrible dysfunctional around women in general and as I have previously stated destroyed my self-esteem).

The stabbing rage shouted in my head to pick up the heaviest object I could find (perhaps the flat screen playing Fox News) and splatter the motherf***'s brains all over the white tiled floor. Again, this may sound bad but it only lasted less than a second did. What happened next was to me extremely beautiful and profound.

First, before I describe what came next, let me set this up with what has happened to me since I have left the church. Well very little has happened actually, I have had to work shit jobs that were mostly graveyard and have been attending Salt Lake Community College when I have had time and money trying to better myself.

Sadly I also started drinking when I left the church and that later started to become a problem. You never get the money or the brain cells back. Fortunately I have been clean for 2 months. I had moved out of my parents house a few years ago but had to move to my TBM parents house because of unemployment/bad luck streak and to assist my father in his ailing health.

While I was doing security for a steel fabrication plant last winter out by Kennecott. Boy, what a great job that was, I had to sit in my uncomfortable car overnight with no heat and shiver, remember how cold it was in Utah last year. At this point I was a sad agnostic philosophically, betrayed by a religion/culture that I had implicitly trusted and was lost and confused in an uncaring world. I turned to reading to keep myself sane on the job because nobody is going to steal a 100 ton I-beam when its 0" degrees outside and there is 3 foot covering of snow on the ground.

I began to read three very similar yet different books that had radically changed my worldview. One was Running On Emptiness by John Zerzan, a hardcore anarchist who also I think is an atheist, that talks about civilization and how advances in technology and culture invariably lead to social stratification and alienation between people who were previously spiritually together before these said "innovations."

Another was How Your Mind Can Keep You Well by Roy Masters. Master's meditation technique is basically Gnosis for dummies, though he can be hard on the ladies sometimes on his talk show. This is a book on resentment and how it can muck up your life, and a biography of Gandhi, the famous statesman who accomplished so much with the principles of treating everyone with empathy and respect, even his enemies.

At this point I was bitter, confused, and afraid, but as I began to open my mind to the content in these radically different books I was overtaken with what I can only struggle to describe. You can call it Gnosis, being born again, nirvana, or whatever the f*** you want, but at that moment on an insanely miserable winter night I was free from resentment, anger, fear, and hatred. I had no bad feelings towards anyone and knew only love and respect for everyone and the spirits that dwell within them.

I was also free from judgment as I am not God and I can never know all of the details of a person and have no right to condemn/or give them fake ego/praise, and engage in the little mental judgments people do to create the reality tunnel that they are right and "those people are wrong." I was also able to examine my relationships with women and how I had previously seen the ladies as mere things to validate my ego; in other words the girls saw in me, among other problems, someone who wanted to use them to validate my own ego as opposed to someone who would respect them.

Also I gained new insight on how the church manages to control the members so thoroughly, Mormonism is an ego trap, and the promise of being a god/breeder goddess inflates the egos of the membership thoroughly. The members are willing to give up all kinds of money and time, put up with all kinds of ridiculous guilt for that carrot on the stick guaranteeing the ultimate ego gratification of Godhood. In other words, that night I had experienced a much-needed spiritual rebirth of sorts.

Ironically, my life has sort of gone to hell since then; I had lost a few jobs and my apartment in addition to having had to quit attending school, and move back in with my parents. Also many of my friends are sort of unsavory characters and I had picked up some bad habits like drinking from them, that I am only recently cleaning up. It certainly isn't easy to keep a spirit of empathy when shit happens but I will still strongly assert (bear my testimony, if you will) that when I have been able to look past the anger and resentment that tends to manifest in my life I have been infinitely better off for it.

All of this brings us to the moment in time where I am standing there in a Murray computer store, only ten feet away from a man who has f***ed with the heads of myself and a great many of you reading this right now.

Initially I was filled with rage and surprise, at whom I was standing near to. But after this buzz burst another thought manifested in my mind. It was the same thought that I had on that cold winter night and many times since, I understood. Though I certainly don’t condone what Packer has done, (Again, my opinion.) I refused to engage in resentment and judgment of the man.

With a guy like Packer and Spencer W Kimball, for that matter, you have to wonder what events in their lives caused them to take such a hardcore stance regarding human sexuality. I mean, were these guys molested as kids or something. Has the remembrance of how their polygamist grandmothers caused them some sort of complex against all forms of sexuality. Who knows, maybe he is just a crazy old asshole?

I realized that to have resolution in my soul, I had to rise above the negativity and forgive him of the pain that has been caused. I am not bullshitting everyone when I say that I had one of the most "Gnostic" moments in my life when I let it all go, the hatred, bitterness, towards him, everything! I realized the tremendous power that comes to not reacting to a negative stimulus, even one so horrible as the cold face of Boyd K. Packer.

At this point I can say I felt as good as in any moment of my life. This is not to say that I wasn’t still surprised, I had to re-enter my debit card pass code again as I messed up the first time, but the strange serenity or the scene cleaned out all other emotions that could have been alternatively experienced.

Once I had completed my transaction, my stuff was bagged and I began to walk towards the nearest door, the cashier informed me that that door was inbound only and I had to go out the other door that could only be reached by going behind and around both queues where Mr. Packer was waiting to be checked.

As I walked back around I again gazed upon our friend. He had probably seen me look at him before and now I walked near him from nearly a head on angle as he was looking towards the queue and the door. I needed to go around him and the others in that line to circle back around to reach the correct door, and at that moment there was nearly eye contact. He was avoiding everyone's gaze.

Now keep in mind that I was about to go to the gym so I was wearing only a white T-shirt, and with myself wearing only a T-shirt, my lack of the famous Utah garment smile was easily apparent. Packer was probably aware that I had looked at him with a glint of recognition in my eye and now I was approaching him with an obvious lack of G-smile showing, yea I must be an exmo.

Though I didn’t look unnecessarily at him I could see a look of discomfort on his face, maybe not strong enough to call fear. At this time my ego briefly reappeared and I was again tempted to at least talk some shit to this unremarkable old suit. You know, say something like "Oh God hear the words of your BULLSHIT," or "How does it feel to have f***ed with so many peoples heads". But the smile that had washed over my face at the queue never wavered and I walked on by out of the store and on with the rest of my life.

I gave this man no reaction in which to validate his ego and that famous persecution complex verification that enables TBM's to continue to justify the thoughts that they are right and everyone else is wrong. I then went to the gym and had a fantastic workout and even had a decent day at work. Frankly, it was more of spiritual experience than any I ever had in the hierarchified, beuracritized, pay to play, brand of spirituality that is peddled in most of the church houses in Utah.

Life isn't always easy though, and I can have all the warm fuzzy spiritual experiences that I want but that doesn’t change the fact that there is work to done in my life. I have been one in the past to run away from my problems and every day is still a battle. I am committed to completing my education and bettering myself. Hopefully all Utah will be to me someday is a receding image in the rearview mirror of my U-haul as I am off to some teaching job.

But alas the battle continues. At my slave pit call center job I was again overtaken with resentment at how things in my life had happened and the lack of status that I have and all of those worldly things. Surprise surprise, these feelings were brought on by a woman, (this isn't as bad as you think) I mean no disrespect when I say this but, one of my supervisors is a gorgeous beguiling Bosnian girl with an astounding all class/perfect ass body and very sharp mind.

In my inter-call boredom I watched this svelte creature flow her way through the call floor on 3 inch heels (Thank god stilettos have come back by the way.) In my listlessness I couldn’t help but return to the resentful state of mind that had shadowed me for years. I thought about how although I'm still in good shape for just turning 26 I'm in no state financially/emotionally to try and win the fancy of the ladies anywhere.

I also began to think about a Mormon girl that I have known that was very exceptional and interesting as a kid and had shown great potential as a youth to see beyond the Mormon fraud (My opinion on the church is based on what I consider damning objective evidence like the Book of Abraham translation fraud) as she had traveled all over the world, was very good at TaiKwonDo, never shied away form an R rated movie, and had even gotten one of those dumb Charisma Carpenter tattoo's right above her ass like all of the other ladies were doing for a few years ago.

Sadly, she has grown molly Mormon as of late and I recently heard that she was engaged to some TBM dullard and is committed to making some more Mormon babies. (Ok I have never met the guy, but he's Mormon and there getting married in the temple so how cool could he be?) It really saddened me to think of this remarkable person as one of Brigham's breeders, a formerly exceptional woman becoming just another Mormon wife/baby factory. (You know, hey woman you have no power, go breed us some more tithe payers, oh yeah, don’t forget to feel constantly guilty for things you have done in the past.)

At this point the thought of why didn’t I splatter Boyd's brains all over the Fox TV screen returned to me. For a few minutes the rage again flowed through my mind but as before, I again knew where to let my thoughts flow. You see life is a bitch and in this postmodern, dog eat dog world that we live in, things can be f***ing brutal. Also on top of that there is a legitimate chance (Hey I don’t know, I have never been dead) that there may be no afterlife to look forward to. The world has little (well none) sympathy for a dumb Utah Mormon who was stupid enough to admit wanking to his authoritarian bishop.

But you know what, it doesn’t matter, yeah I'm serious, in my opinion it doesn't matter, because what we do have is the here and now. And that… is sacred enough. Whatever happiness in life happens, so much is beyond our control. (I'm not saying people shouldn’t seek after justice, on the contrary) But the love/empathy/respect that we can show the people in our lives is not, we all have the same choice either to love or to hate to have respect or disdain or to have empathy or to persecute.

After I got my head strait, I re-affirmed my commitment to being part of the solution and not part of the problem. To me all humans are worthy of respect whether it be the hot Bosnian girl, Boyd K f***ing Packer, or everyone else in between and I am committed to helping bring forth a brighter day by my attitude and my willingness to do what needs to be done. If I had smote ol' Boyd down to the ground or even verbally abused him, I would have been a part of the problem and not the solution.

Simply put, life is short and there has to be a better way regarding how the church and other spiritual institutions are run so I am going to end this by directing some words to none other than you Mr. Boyd K Packer, so called apostle and second in succession of a very powerful and influential institution, wherever the hell you are.

What I am going to say is now aimed solely at you. Also, I am not addressing the big powerful, suit and tie, everyone adores me, Boyd K Packer stands at the giant pulpit in the conference center, nor am I addressing the casually dressed shopper, simply wishing for some anonymity while buying new computer equipment. Forget all of the roles you have had, obtained, or been assigned by others in the course of you're life and listen to me, one human soul filled with the divine spark to another.

When the inevitable happens and Gordon B. Hinckley dies you will take upon yourself a powerful mantle and will be revered by millions of people. This includes an exceptional woman that I care for very deeply. I ask you, how will you conduct yourself when they eventually drop Hinckley's carcass off at the morgue?

Though you and I know after our brief eye contact that we were equal spirits before God, (If there is one) and only worthy of his presence if we express him outwardly to others through empathy, your flock thinks that some pretty profound shit goes on with you in your Masonic rip-off holy of holies temple. (Well some do, many others are merely telling you what you want to hear.)

When you get to sit in the big chair, what will you do, how will you conduct yourself? WILL YOU BE LIKE ALL OF THE OTHERS OR WILL YOU BE DIFFERENT. The only reason nothing has changed and your religion continues to alienate decent people like me is because no one has had the courage to dislodge their egos from the apparatuses of power and take responsibility for the past.

All you have to do to change the world is put all of the holy books away, all of the decrees, commandments, rituals, and all of the rest of your ego morphine that keeps your pride from burying your conscience. If you want communion with the only spirit that matters, please I implore you, go and sit still alone, just you and your conscience let everything else go and you will know how to lead in the right way.

The church has condemned far too many for behaviors that are all to human to continue to function with any degree of legitimacy. Hell Boyd, if you will remember I mentioned Gandhi earlier, now there was a guy who knew how to bring about positive progress in the plight of men, why not put the Doctrine and Covenants down and read up on him instead? Its not too late to do the right thing man, as long as you are breathing you can bring to this world goodness.

Some people on this board and other places have cast you as an hopelessly evil man who rips people apart like L Tom Perry for presenting a human story about the apostle chocolate tradition (You guys are right those folks at Cummings know what they are doing) or verbally abusing people who are without a white shirt in the church office building. (Or was is a tie, I don’t remember) Remember Boyd, I was sorely tempted to make fun of you and your closely held temple rituals in a public place and wisely decided to refrain, taking the higher ground. In doing so I left you, and myself, with our dignities intact; is there a chance that this approach would work for you as well considering that you have much more worldly power than I ever will.

If you are as bad a person as everyone says then consider how profound it would be to stand reborn and reinvent yourself, the greater the crime/pain the more profound the redemption. You don’t have to be the grizzly bear we have held in disdain all of these years.

Now I am going to say things that you may find hurtful but remember they are directed at the institution known as Mormonism and not you. The bottom line is this, your religion is a verifiable fraud and this had been proven numerous times through the years from the Book of Mormon translation fiasco to Mark Hofmann playing you guys like a f***ing violin. There is no way a just supernatural force would channel himself through Joseph Smith (I'm going to refrain from calling him things like a lazy treasure hunter or a sexual deviant, since you undoubtedly have heard them all before) and if he did receive supernatural aid it is a legitimate possibility that it was from a nefarious source. Those pentagrams on the Nauvoo temple look an awfully lot like the ones those devil heavy metal bands display.

All that has to be done to change the world is a change in the heart of a single man, do you have the integrity to face up to the churches crazy past, and the fact that your faith is currently maiming people today with ridiculous crippling guilt and obligation. Will you be the one to unlock the gates of unconditional love to flow down upon your thirsty flock to drink? Or, will it be more of the same: the guilt, the pride and worship of outward images that is fostered in your people that causing them to worship only material things, like SUV's goofy MCMansions and the like.

The culture that causes people to worship those with the most expensive suit, often with disastrous results as liars, conmen, and real perverts have infiltrated your midst. The same old culture that has Utah among the highest in personal bankruptcies and SSRI antidepressant consumption. I say these things because your church, quite frankly is rapidly dying with the churches past and present sins being on the internet for all to see. Invariably you will only attract the slow-witted and needy into your ranks, a cadre of people that will contribute little to you shiny suit, image only dream. Ironically the only way to save your institution is to do the right thing exactly as I have stated. You must be open about the chicanery of the past and remove all of the cancerous ego-god bullshit from your institution or it will fade into ridiculous nothingness before the judgment of time.

You can either be remembered as the man who took a stand and changed history or a ridiculous old fool pretending to be a "prophet" guiding one of the goofiest institutions ever to grace the face of the earth.

Also before I finish, I also understand and sympathize with you that you may be in a terrible position. You may want to do the right thing but may not be able to act for fear of the harm that may come to loved ones. Ones family and friend are one of life's most precious jewels and are worthy of protection, as this is a noble concern. Also I sympathize with you regarding the potential scenario that the office that you now hold or will hold when Hinckley dies possesses no real power, and you are merely a puppet from whose strings lead back to other groups that dwell behind the scenes. (Whether it be a Council of Fifty type of organization, some crazy Danite like group, a version of the often mentioned Masonic conspiracy, or perhaps groups unknown to the uninitiated profane like myself).

If this is true, you probably feel even more powerless than I do, having started off in the con as a wide eyed kid just looking to do a job and wasn’t smartened up until it was to late. To conclude, if you actually read this thank you Mr. Packer for your time and may your journey through this life and whatever lies beyond be a happy and meaningful one. Hint: clearing your conscience makes a person feel great, at least it did for me. You know what to do.

All right, that’s my story and I'm sticking to it, remember we live in a F***ed up world (I personally am not a big fan of oil wars myself) and Mormonism isn't the only human institution to have problems. Indeed there may be hard times ahead. On top of that there may be no interventionist sky-daddy savior that will come down at the last minute and save us from ourselves. Because of this I implore everyone to love those in your life who deserve to be loved and rise above resentment and anger to those who have wronged you and everyone else.

Give them a chance to redeem themselves. I even mean this about Mormonism and may we come upon a better world for tomorrow, a world we will have to build all by ourselves. (Actually sound like fun.) I mean this to the crazy hot Bosnian girl, the exceptional girl form my neighborhood who sadly may have sold her soul, the fool bishop who used church money to put on a new roof and even you Boyd K. Packer of all people, you spawn master of a thousand neuroses. Oh yeah and everyone else especially everyone at exmormon.org.

Cheers. Sincerely,

NewJackVictory A.k.a. Dan Rimmasch -Sandy 13th ward, Sandy West Stake

I have a question for all you apostate exmo's:

While many of you appear to still have "baggage" from your stints in the one true church, I have noticed while lurking here that many of you appear to feel a true peace about your present way of life.

My question is, since I am an apostle in the one, true, church (we have ELEVEN MILLION now!), and I have devoted my entire life to it, why am I so angry and miserable? I always talk about the "Great Plan of Happiness", and I've tried to live it, I have, and still......nothing. No happiness, no peace, no understanding - just a strange kind of incomprehensible inner turmoil. I have this gay thing I can't get over, and it just irritates the hell out of me all the time, all day and all night; Pres. Hinckley's been teaching false doctrine for 8 years and no one can explain to me why, and that drives me insane; I keep ordering that "intellectuals" be booted out of the church, like I thought I was supposed to, but there's no peace there, either; I've even demanded that church-employed teachers and historians misrepresent or withhold facts (i.e., lie) just to bolster faith in the church, like I thought we were all supposed to. I even had one of my own relatives, Lynn Packer, fired from BYU for breaking the Paul H. Dunn story years ago. And still - nothing. No joy, no peace, no love. This just does not compute.

I've done everything I thought I was supposed to do, and I'm bitter, angry, and confused.

I have nowhere else to turn. In this moment of weakness (I think of myself as Jesus on the cross, wondering "Why hast thou forsaken me?"), I ask you for your ideas.

Yours bewildered in the gospel,

Elder Boyd K. Packer

Acting President
Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Let's discuss this problem over a couple of beers. - activejackmormon

I'll introduce you to a few gay ex-mos who can probably explain your gay envy and why you and your factory feel so frustrated and you feel such loathing towards yourself and your compadres.

Also, in the words of Dr. Seuss, your shoes are on too tight and so are your garmies. I've got some nice fruit of the loom boxers that are about as soft and comfy as it gets. This ought to change complexion down there from BYU blue to UofU crimson.

Another thing my dear Boyd, suppressing truth is unhealthy. Like a woman whose child is not that of the apparent father's, the guilt can be intense. Thinking that you are lying for some non-existent God only compounds the internal disharmony.

My friend, come clean. There is still time to salvage your life and make it one that serves humanity, not some money-grubbing cult of senile and myopic old men.

Next Sunday, instead of going to church and trying to stay awake, meet with a few of us ex-mos at Squatters at noon and try their hefeweisen. Within the year, you'll not only have a pony tail but your first tatoo as well.

Thanks for posting. Your post just might have changed your life.

Dear Emperor Caligula K. Packer? - 2 of 6

I think you underestimate the beneficial effects of masturbation. Get in the bathroom and really "peal one off", and I promise you will feel much better about yourself.

Come to terms with your man/boy fascinations. It's alright, we already suspect it so free yourself. Nothing good can come from hiding behind your gruesome facade.

God didn't "curse" you with these afflictions. He's as cruel to me as he is to you. Deal with it.

And no, no one likes you. We accept that you are a right proper prick. Gordo's been flipping you the bird while you're behind his favorite tree, pronouncing your condemnations on the world.

You know, come to think of it, why don't you go fuck yourself!!

With love.

I am asking for a chance! Please....! I have no one else to talk to... - Elder Boyd K. Packer

Now I'm even more confused. I don't understand the profanity and the anger toward me. You have to understand - I grew up in the church, I went to war when I was just young and tried my best to obey the commandments and do everything I'd been taught while I was over in the Pacific, and indeed God protected me. He answered my prayers. In return, I have dedicated my life to what I have always thought of as "the great plan of happiness". I've never known anything else.

When I got home from the war, I met my wife and we got married. I was so grateful to God for her, I redoubled my efforts to dedicate my life to God's church. I even became involved in the CES. I always submitted to my priesthood file leaders, even when I thought they might be making a mistake, because I had been told this was the Lord's way. And in fact, I felt many times that some power beyond me was helping me help the youth under my guardianship.

That was many years ago. Ever since then, I have always tried my best to preach the gospel. I am being made fun of on this board because of my "gay issue", but in Leviticus it says gay is so bad you'd have stone offenders, and Paul in the New Testament says it's bad, too. What else am I supposed to have thought about it? I've always believed the scriptures were inspired by God.

I notice also my comment about the testicular factories within every male is a source of ridicule - but my priesthood file leaders always have said that masturbation is a perversion of the divine procreative power. Was I supposed to have doubted them?

I admit that telling everyone who doesn't have a testimony, to just start bearing it until they finally convince themselves they have one, wasn't my finest moment - but when you give ten thousand talks over fifty years, who doesn't throw a few wild pitches?

As for the recommendation on here for me to masturbate, it has been decades since I felt even the merest tingling in that most holy region of my temple, so I don't think realistically this is an option, even if this is a serious suggestion.

No - I came on here for help. I am nearing the end of my life, and it has been a life spent doing what I thought I was supposed to, even to the point of making myself very unpopular. I did it all, because I thought the supreme creator of the universe wanted me to. I did it all, because I thought it would give me and others joy. I did it all, because I have believed that Joseph Smith saw everything he claimed, and literally did translate ancient plates. I do derive joy from my large family, but it is hard for me not to notice that this phenomenon is not exclusive to LDS church members. Outside of this, I find myself hollow, alone...really cold inside. I never feel light-hearted, and can't remember ever feeling that way at all. I sincerely just do not get it.

How can it be true that my entire life has been spent trying to further a "great plan of happiness", that, when I am honest with myself, hasn't really worked for me? Have I wasted my life? And I don't even know what to make of these latest DNA reports coming in about the Book of Mormon. For the first time, ever, that one, horrific, nightmarish thought has popped up in the very back of my mind...."what if?". No.....it can't be......can it? I can't even talk to Pres. Hinckley about it. He says his PR people are adamant that he and I have no contact, since it could lead to "seriously bad publicity if we are ever seen together". I can't believe that after fifty years of just teaching what the church always stood for, Pres. Hinckley is distancing himself from me because I'm apparently "a potential embarrassment because of my doctrinal positions" (his words) to the church. Well, excuse me, but those WERE our "doctrinal positions" until Hinckley began consulting with his PR handlers and spin doctors rather than the quorum of the 12, and changing everything! How was I supposed to know he was going to do that? Was I supposed to disbelieve the "gospel was eternal"? I feel really betrayed, and I have no one to talk to.

Please help me, someone. I'm sorry if I've upset people on here with the gay thing. I only did it because I thought it was right. I just need help.

I don't want booze and a porno mag.

I need real answers.

Please.

Elder Boyd K. Packer

Acting President (in crisis)

Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Aww, poor baby. Let's talk about it - Sara

Here's my 10-step recovery plan for you, Elder Triple K:

1. Get a little high, it'll calm you down.
2. Stop drinking the blood of teenagers, because you won't steal their power that way.
3. Watch "Dogma".
4. Go to Starbucks. Starbucks is good.
5. Call Gordy a "demon-cock-sucker" to his face.
6. Give yourself an eye-popping orgasm.
7. Tell yer buddies that the BoM is false.
8. Get stoned again, it will be much easier to do all of this stoned.
9. Tell the media that Joseph Smith was a pimp, and all those little girls he married were his bitches.
10. Relax!

If you do all of this, not only will exmos stop being pissed at your homophobic, sexist filth that makes us all want to vomit, but we'll write a little song about you. Something that rhymes "Packer" with "cracker". That's a good rhyme.

(Sobbing) - Elder Boyd K. Packer

I see now I really do have no one to talk to. Not Gordie, not my wife, not you guys. No one.

No reason to keep on living,

Elder Boyd K. Packer

Acting (Acting Suicidal, that is) President

Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

And Boyd, dear, your wife feels worse about the whole thing... - Imlois

...than you do. Because as a woman, she was never allowed to follow her own ideas....just yours. She was never allowed to tell you how phony the whole first vision was because the priesthood holders told her that it was Satan trying to sway her. She just kept having your children and living alone in her mind.....how truly sad for both of you. But! Just think! Now you know the truth, you both can live a new life with happiness and peace between you. She can state her mind and give advice and you can take it without feeling like you are betraying your priesthood; you've lost it! You both are now EQUAL partners in a relationship. EQUAL in all ways.

Here is an original quote from Boyd K. Packer:

“You seminary teachers and some of you institute and BYU men will be teaching the history of the Church this school year. This is an unparalleled opportunity in the lives of your students to increase their faith and testimony of the divinity of this work. Your objective should be that they will see the hand of the Lord in every hour and every moment of the Church from its beginning till now.”

“Church history can be so interesting and so inspiring as to be a very powerful tool indeed for building faith. If not properly written or properly taught, it may be a faith destroyer.”

“There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not.”

“Some things that are true are not very useful.”

“That historian or scholar who delights in pointing out the weaknesses and frailties of present or past leaders destroys faith. A destroyer of faith — particularly one within the Church, and more particularly one who is employed specifically to build faith — places himself in great spiritual jeopardy. He is serving the wrong master, and unless he repents, he will not be among the faithful in the eternities. ... Do not spread disease germs!" - Boyd K. Packer, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect", 1981, BYU Studies, Vol. 21, No. 3, pp. 259-271

Now let's imagine that instead of gaining employment in the Church education bureaucracy, Boyd had pursued a career in used car sales. Can't we legitimately imagine him as a sales force trainer saying something like the following?

Regional Sales Supervisor Boyd K. Packer:

“You senior used car salesmen and some of you junior salesmen and franchise marketing personnel will be selling not only cars but also the reputation of our franchise this fiscal year. This is an unparalleled opportunity in the lives of your customers to increase their trust, loyalty and testimony of our used car franchise and our highly profitable vehicle maintenance plans. Your objective should be that they will see nothing but high quality and reliable service in every hour and every moment of the franchise's history from its beginning till now.”

“The history of our franchise can be so interesting and so inspiring as to be a very powerful tool indeed for building trust and customer loyalty. If not properly written or properly taught, it may be a trust destroyer.”

“There is a temptation for the salesman or the franchise marketing executive to want to tell everything to the customers, whether it is worthy or trust promoting or not.”

“Some things that are true are not very useful.”

“That salesman or marketing executive who delights in pointing out the weaknesses and frailties of present or past management policies destroys customer trust. A destroyer of trust — particularly one within the franchise, and more particularly one who is employed specifically to build trust and build up the market value of our franchise name — places himself in great occupational jeopardy. He is serving the wrong master, and unless he repents, he will not be among those promoted to higher positions or retained as an employee by the franchise in any future economic downturn..."

- Boyd K. Packer, "The Used Car Business is Far, Far Greater Than the Used Cars", 1981, Regional Sales Conference, Vol. 21, No. 3, pp. 259-271

but I was not alone. I don't know how many people were there - maybe just me and my patriarch. BKP was very friendly and shook our hands. As we were from Germany he inquired a little about us. Not that I was fan of his but for gfairness I must add that he was firendly. Not phoney nice. Not grinning like some do in Utah (or the US). I remember once before that he passed by me in his car and waved at me since I nodded a greeting. He might have plainly ignored that.

My uncle knew Boyd as a youth in Brigham City. Said Boyd was a whimp. All the other Mormon boys constantly picked on him. Claims he helped throw Boyd in a canal once to re-baptise him whether he needed it or not. Can't understand why everyone fears him so much. He's just a self-righteous narrow minded church leader, full of himself with very little charisma, not the head of the military or the police. The Mormon police state was dismantled over 100 years ago. - 12/22/2003 - anon

Yes, I too had the experience of spending a week one evening with Boyd. It was in the Fall of 1974. My now ex and I had been invited to the home of his daughter,who,along with her husband and children, were in the same Seattle ward we attended. As we sat around the living room conversing, Boyd called the shots as to what was discussed.

During the course of the conversation I commented on how it was my first time living in Seattle, and that I was not yet used to how the constant drizzly rain sometimes made it difficult to do some activities, like pushing a baby stroller a mile to the grocery store.

Well you would have thought I had shouted, 'Fire.' He immediately retorted with the comment, 'WEll, I NEVER let the weather get in the way of my plans!'

Silence in the room. So much for a lovely evening at the foot of an apostle. I do want to thank him for helping me in my eventual exit from L.D.S. Inc.

From a public interview at a Symposium in August, 1993:

Jack Newell: There is a lot of talk right now about 'threats' to the church, and as you know, Elder Packer gave a speech in May suggesting that the chief threats to the church are the so-called intellectuals, the homosexuals and the feminists. What would you say, if you were to say what are the chief threats to the welfare of the LDS church in the future are?

Sterling: Oh, I thought you were going to ask me to comment on Elder Packer!

Jack Newell: Oh, I wouldn't restrain you from doing that!

Sterling: I was kind of looking forward to the opportunity. Well, I will just make a very short statement: I think he is a total disaster to the LDS church.

Doctors in Salt Lake City announced today that a General Authority of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints General was treated for Packerson's disease. The three hour procedure was successful in removing a four foot long impacted semen plug. (The crusty, impacted front end was snagged with a small steel hook inserted through the urethra. The worm like structure was then carefully extracted, relieving Parkinson's-like symptoms caused when the base of the brain is constantly bathed in a reservoir of backed up fluid).

"This patient's treatment was especially complicated", said Dr. Seymour Peters, a member of the treatment team. "A case like this with sixty plus years of backup is never seen outside of Utah, and even there, only rarely. The consistency of the obstruction at the brain end in such cases is like raw egg white, making it extremely difficult to work out in one piece. This should serve as a warning to all men of the dangers of years of self restraint, and of the importance of periodically running this 'little factory' [as the system was once referred to in a well known pamphlet authored by the patient]".

The patient is recovering nicely, sleeping peacefully, with a faint smile (presumably of relief) on his formerly leaden face. There is reported to be a moderate tremor remaining in his right hand. Doctors note, however, that this is not uncommon, and can in fact be used in physical therapy to help prevent a recurrence of the condition.

graphic courtesy of Jason Gagnon

I would bet next year's tithing that Boyd K. Packer has Parkinsons Disease. Anyone who has taken care of an elderly family member with this malady would recognize the features in Elder Packer. The mask like face. The pill rolling resting tremor. The shuffling gait. The rigidity. Not of thought. That is a different problem with a longer history. Interesting facts about this disease. It often involves severe depression which would explain Packer's general grumpiness. Also rare individuals actually get psychotic. And one recent discovery is that it is associated with not drinking coffee. Something in coffee might prove to be protective from it. Wouldn't that be ironic.

Previous church leaders with this problem include N. Eldon Tanner, Marion G. Romney, Legrand Richards. Maybe even Spencer W. Kimball which would be all three of the 1st presidency back when Hinckley was given the reins of leadership. Come to think of it James E. Faust probably has a mild case of it too.

So quit picking on these sick old men. If they perform any better than the typical patient down at the Vets Hospital we should applaud them. It is the foolish Mormon sheep who hold them up to such impossible heights who should be ridiculed.

I met Elder Darth K. Vader in 1981 in Brazil. I was on a mission in Porto Alegre and Vader was to be there to dedicate a new stake and hold a conference with the missionaries. Since I was one of the better Portuguese speakers from the US, I was asked to be his personal interpreter for a 24 hour period. The days leading up to the conference were filled with growing excitement on my part.

But then the day came, I quickly found that Vader was gruff, rude, arrogant, and bored. He would give his own talks in Spanish (which the Portuguese-speaking Brazilians could generally understand) but for any talk or conversation given in Portuguese, I was told to hover behind him and whisper the English translation into his right ear. I learned later that he was asleep throughout most of the conference and hadn't heard a word of the translations I struggled so hard to make for him. He never even thanked me ONCE for my 24 hours of translation duties.

Despite his rude behavior to me and the local leaders, I did get the courage to ask him for a photo of us together. He glared hard at me but consented. I still have that photo of us side by side, with his sour look on his face. This experience was a serious brick in my path out of Moronism.

A decade later I had another brush with His High Holiness. In 1991 I had come out of the closet after going through 15 years of the "Lord's program" for my sexual salvation. A bitter and angry Fag, I had stopped believing in Mormonism because of its pervasive relics of barbarism: racisim, sexism, and homophobia. I had gone through one "court of love" a few years prior, but had been put on eternal probation. This go round, however, I was a finalist for Queen of Outer Darkness and faced an excommunication trial; having been through a horrendous, degrading and hateful "court of love", I was planning on secretly recording the proceedings and then publishing them verbatim so that the world could know what goes on behind the closed doors of an excommunication trial. Unfortunately my reputation as an angry Queer activist preceded me.

Paul Hanks, the stake president of Salt Lake's "Marmalade District" on Capitol Hill, contacted Loren C. Dunn about my "special case". (I had shown up at Paul's orifice in tie-dye, barefeet, and had refused to call him "President Hanks" - just "Paul". I also testified with tears in my eyes that god is a Lesbian! He was horrified at the audacity of my heresy.)

To make a long story a wee bit shorter, Dunn had contacted Packer about my heretical behavior and Packer had commanded Dunn to command Hanks to excommunicate me summarily. Lord Vader said I was NOT to have a trial because my testimony might sully the ears of the poor brethren in attendance and I should be given no opportunity to express my heresy to the pure in heart. So abrogating my ecclesiastical right as a Melchizedek priesthood holder to a trial by 12 priesthood peers, I was kicked out and never had my chance to expose the horrors of Zion's Courts of Love.

Recently I wrote a letter to Russell Henderson at the Wyoming State Penitentiary. He's the Mormon lad incarcerated there for life for the kidnapping, torture, and brutal murder of Matthew Shepard, a gay student in Laramie, Wyoming, whom Russell and a friend picked up at a gay bar (posing as gays themselves). I asked Henderson if he felt that Apostle Darth K. Vader's talk (For Young Men Only) encouraging Mormon men to acts of violence against gays had any influence on his decision to torture Matthew to death. If so, I plan on writing to Vader with Henderson's response and letting the Pack-Man know that Shepard's blood, crying out for justice, is on his hands as well.

BTW, if you want to write or visit Packer at home, his address is:

1850 Forest Bend Drive
Salt Lake City UT 84121

When I was a security guard at Temple Square I had to go to his home once. It's a ghastly nouveau riche mansion behind a giant iron gate and fence. So like His Holiness!

Word Mark: BOYD PACKER
Goods and Services (ABANDONED) computer software and compact discs containing movies for interactive entertainment, television and cable programming services
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 74322386 Filing Date October 14, 1992 Filed ITU FILED AS ITU Published for Opposition April 6, 1993
Owner (APPLICANT) Digital Pictures, Inc. CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 2420 Sand Hill Road, Suite 300 Menlo Park CALIFORNIA 94025
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Attorney of Record Sally M. Abel
Type of Mark TRADEMARK. SERVICE MARK Register PRINCIPAL
Other Data "BOYD PACKER" is not the name of a living individual
Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date September 8, 1994

I met Boyd the paranoid when I was serving as assistant to the mission president in Tokyo, Japan in 1978. I was a TBM if there ever was one, and expected a spiritual experience as I met the first general authority whose path crossed my own in such a personal way. I spent several minutes in the room with him, shuddering in awe. He avoided looking in our (my companion's and my) direction and was terse and bothered when I shoved my hand at him, determined to have a handshake with a live GA. He was a real turn-off, and my youthful hopes and expectations were crushed. - 05/18/2003 - anon

The infamous "Little Factory" sermon preached October 2, 1976 at the Priesthood Session of General Conference was made into this pamphpet and is for sale to this day at the LDS Distribution Center. However, this sermon has been deleted from the online Church magazine archives located at www.lds.org

Excerpts:

"I wish to explain something that will help you understand your young manhood and help you develop self-control. When this power begins to form, it might be likened to having a little factory in your body, one designed to produce the product that can generate life."

"This little factory moves quietly into operation as a normal and expected pattern of growth and begins to produce the life giving substance. It will do so perhaps as long as you live. It works very slowly. That is the way it should be. For the most part, unless you tamper with it, you will hardly be aware that it is working at all."

"As you move closer to manhood, this little factory will sometimes produce and oversupply of this substance. The Lord has provided a way for that to be released. It will happen without any help or without any resistance from you. Perhaps, one night you will have a dream. In the course of it the release valve that controls the factory will open and release all that is excess."

"The factory and automatic release work on their own schedule. The Lord intended it to be that way. It is to regulate itself. This will not happen very often. You may go a longer period of time, and there will be no need for this to occur. When it does, you should not feel guilty. It is the nature of young manhood and is part of becoming a man."

"There is, however, something you should not do. Sometimes a young man does not understand. Perhaps he is encouraged by unwise or unworthy companions to tamper with that factory. He might fondle himself and open the release valve. This you should not do, for if you do that, the little factory will speed up. You will then be tempted again and again to release it. You can quickly be subjected to a habit, one that is not worthy, one that will leave you feeling depressed and feeling quilty. Resist that temptation. Do not be quilty of tampering or playing with this sacred power of creation. Keep it in reserve for the time when it can be righteously employed."

"One of you, perhaps, has not fully understood until now. Perhaps your father did not talk to you. You may already have been quilty of tampering with these powers. You may even have developed a habit. What do you do then?"

"First, I want you to know this. If you are struggling with this temptation and perhaps you have not quite been able to resist, the Lord still loves you. It is not anything so wicked nor is it a transgression so great that the Lord would reject you because of it, but it can quickly lead to that kind of transgression. It is not pleasing to the Lord, nor is it pleasing to you. It does not make you feel worthy or clean."

"There are ways to conquer such a habit. First of all, you must leave that alone long enough for it to slow down. Resisting is not easy. It will take weeks, even months. But you can get the little factory slowed back to where it should be."

"Many of the world would, I am sure, be amused by this counsel. Let them be amused. They live by a another standard, a lower one. We live by the Lord's standard and continue to teach it."

I recently had lunch with a General Authority friend of mine that offices in the Church Admin Bldg. When I arrived to pick my friend up I went up to his office. I was wearing a fairly conservative blue shirt, stays in the collar and perfectly ironed with medium starch, complimented with a red / yellow tie and a very nice Italian dark blue faintly pinstripped double breasted suit and polished black oxfords.

On my way down the hall I ran into Boyd K Packer who actually had the gall to ask why I was wearing a colored shirt in that building and lightly scolded me. He doesn't know me at all by the way, I'm a stranger to him.

I couldn't help but think, my god Boyd, what would Jesus wear you senile old crank???? What a dip shit. I just smiled and said I wasn't fond of white shirts. He scowled and continued in his appointed round.

Had I been a True Believing Mormon, I would have been devistated. As it was I found it one more evidence of lunacy. I think I'll wear bright red next time, with a huge pink carnation in my lapel.

BTW, I think Packer is the only one that would ever say anything like that, maybe Monson if the mood struck him. God help us when Hinckley dies.

It was the week AFTER I got that pamphlet. My best friend (also a deacon) and I were sitting in church minding our own business playing testimony bingo like ALL good little deacons should.....when it happened: One of the nicest, kindest, most loved gentlemen in the ward got up to bear his testimony. He started talking about the XXXX factory that he worked at in town.

My friend (Satan, as my mom later referred to him) leaned over and whispered " I wonder if he works at 'the factory' that we read about in the pamphlet last week." Of course we giggled like silly til snot ran out of our noses and mom gave us that, "I'll knock you into the middle of outer darkness" looks.

But, then he mentioned a few remarks that made things even worse. Like, "the factory has grown to an unbelievable size", and "his wife thinks he spends too much time at the factory"... but, we were ushered out when he mentioned the "explosion at the factory that took a week to clean up."

Yup, old BKP once graced my home with his presence. My mother left a roast in the oven to cook during Stake Conference, only to come home and discover that she hadn't turned the oven on! She gave us some money and told us to run out and get take-out chicken (at a local place - so old BKP wouldn't recognize it). As we were heading out the door, in came dad and BKP - hence, no more take-out. Option two was to cook up some badly freezer-burnt steaks from the basement (yum, yum).

During dinner, my mother connected with BKP by telling him about her brother (who is a friend of the big Packer). BKP turned to my father and said, in his dry humorous way, "well,[dad's name], you sure married above yourself!" My older sister, in a very serious tone (but intending humor), turned to BKP and asked sternly: "What are you saying about my father?" BKP was miffed at having his own medicine thrown back at him. He was noticeably agitated for the rest of the meal ("Just who do these mission-field kids think they are? Don't they know who I am? I'm the Packster, the Pack-man, the meat-Packer, for Joe's sake!") Of course, it could have been he was just having trouble chewing his steak!

When I think of the GAs that I had personal interaction with (being the son of a SP in the "mission field"), I can't ever recall being spiritually affected by their presence.

Boyd K. Packer is the most dangerous man in the church and I believe he is the wolf in sheep's clothing mentioned in the last days. - 02/18/2003 - anon

When my son was first diagnosed with cancer.....(lots of bitterness here) we went to Utah, to get 2nd & 3rd opinions about his condition. While attending our old ward, as luck would have it, Boid KKK Pecker was speaking. We were very much in the main stream at that time, & my son asked if he could have a blessing from one of the lard's annointed. The bishop was called, who in turn called a member of the steak prez. who supposedly relayed the message to Pecker. When the answer finally got back to my son, apologies were made that Pecker would not be giving any blessings. If he gave one to our son, every body would want one. Once a pecker, always a pecker. Long live the pissedhood!!!! - 02/18/2003 - things are bad send chocolate

Boyd K Packer was nice to me when as a wayward youth I was playing with a wiji (sp?) board and dabbling in the occult.

He gave me an sincere one on one with stories of people who had started down a similar path and ended up with a house full of objects flying around uncontrollably. I laugh about such nonesense now, but I think he really believed it.

I was duly impressed and put away my occult stuff.

Howard Hunter and his family were/are very cool despite their unfortunate affiliation. - 02/17/2003 - linchpin

When I was first married I lived in the Willowcreek area of Salt Lake and was in the same ward as Boyd K packer. I tried to avoid him even as a member. We had a ward barbeque at the house next to ours and Boyd was there. He came up with outstretched hand, a genuine smile and warmly greeted me like few church leaders ever had. He asked me how I was doing and made me feel damn good.

Goddammit Boyd, now how can I think your a putz? I have liked him ever since. LOL - Tyler - 02/17/2003

I want you people that have been very negative towards Pres. Packer to know that President Boyd K. Packer is a true disciple of Jesus Christ. The light of the Gospel shines forth from his countenance. He is an Apostle of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I have been in his presence when he has bore his testimony of Jesus Christ. The Spirit testified to me that he is a Special Witness of Him even Jesus Christ whom I worship. President Packer is human like all of us are human. He makes mistakes like all of us make mistakes. He who is without sin let him cast the first stone. But one thing is for sure. Pres. Boyd K. Packer is a Special Witness for Him and of Him I know that. I hope the Spirit of the Lord will testify to you the truthfulness of what I have written. Let us not be divided against one another but as one. Respectfully, Your friend - 02/09/2003

Gordon B. Hinckley recently presided at democrat and former congressman Wayne Owens funeral and had the audacity to allow FALSE FUNERAL SPEAKING to take place. Consider the following quote from one who was in attendance:

"It was a beautiful service that contained many wonderful stories of Wayne's life, some humorous political joshing, and an outpouring of respect and love for a man who had dedicated his life to his ideals and peace on earth."

Now consider Apostle Packer's directive given at an Oct. 1996 Marriott Center indoctrination session:

"Funerals could and should be the most spiritually impressive. They are becoming informal family reunions in front of ward members. Often the Spirit is repulsed by humorous experiences or jokes when the time could be devoted to teaching the things of the Spirit, even the sacred things.

When the family insists that several family members speak in a funeral, we hear about the deceased instead of about the Atonement, the Resurrection, and the comforting promises revealed in the scriptures. Now it's all right to have a family member speak at a funeral, but if they do, their remarks should be in keeping with the spirit of the meeting.

I have told my Brethren in that day when my funeral is held, if any of them who speak talk about me, I will raise up and correct them. The gospel is to be preached. I know of no meeting where the congregation is in a better state of readiness to receive revelation and inspiration from a speaker than they are at a funeral. This privilege is being taken away from us because we don't understand the order of things--the unwritten order of things--that relates to the administration of the Church and the reception of the Spirit."

Sorry to have you read Packer's drivel but beware of this control freak...he may well be the next profit and will impact your life, True Believing Mormon or Post-Mormon!

It has been several years since I heard this story, ans can't remember whether it was in my Brother's ward, or a friend's, but it is funny nonetheless, just consider it undocumented.

Elder Packer was visiting a ward or stake meeting where the organist was playing Bach as prelude music before services started. Boyd K. sent a note to the fine Sister informing her that playing a hymn from the music of the restoration would perhaps be more appropriate. The Sister, happy to submit to the First Law Of Heaven, began to play 'We Thank Thee O God For A Prophet" in a minor key, and with the tempo of a funeral dirge. Needless to say, Fudge K. Packer was less than thrilled. He and the Sister engaged in a mutually loving glare down until the meeting began.

Packer is mean! He truly is a grizzly bear. GRRRR!

At Nauvoo this year I met him face to face, and I was not impressed. I took a few pictures of him as he walked down the aisle to shake the hands of his "fans", and all the while he had an expression of disgust on his face. He seems to hate having his picture taken, at least by non-media personnel. I actually have a few pictures of him looking directly at me, and he is giving me a real dirty look. Yes, he normally looks grouchy but in this picture he looks homicidal! Then when he finally made his way to where I was, I extended my hand expecting him politely reciprocate. But I guess he was pissed that I had taken his picture, because all he did was sneer at me and give me an "air hand-shake". I don't know if I was the only one whose hand he didn't shake, but his arrogance left a bad taste in my mouth. I used to worship the general authorities almost like I worshiped god. Indeed I thought they were the closest things to god on this earth.

Not that I expect them to be gung-ho about shaking my hand. They shake thousands of hands, and it must get a little old. But their mannerisms are indicative of authority/prestige having gone to their heads. IMO,most GAs are snobs.

Regarding Packer and gays, please see (Winter 1997) "'What Though Our Rights Have Been Assailed?' Mormons, Politics, Same-Sex Marriage, and Cultural Abuse in Hawaii," Women's Rights Law Reporter 18(2): 129. - 11/15/2002 submitted by anonymous

Dearest Packer,
As a recent "potential convert" I was told that the three questions I would be asked before I could be baptised are:
1. Have I ever been convicted of a felony or am I on probation.
2. Have a ever participated in a homosexual act.
3. Have I ever participated in an abortion.

The nerve of you people! While "not quilty" of any of the three "offences" listed above, so much for your theory of forgivenes. What about lying? Hatred? Predjudice? Distorting the truth about who and what you believe in order to "protect" the church's members? In a few short weeks I have learned so much about the LDS Church that I could vomit. Funny how my nightmares about never being good enough started up shortly after the first missionaries came to my door. I know a few wonderful LDS people. You are one of the biggest assholes I have ever read about. Take your church and shove it. I could write on and on, but have to stop because I am so pissed at myself for even considering joining your institution that I can't even think straight. I love people, I love God and all I can see is condemnation from church hiearchy.

Think I'll go have a cup of coffee and try and calm down. Oops! I blew the "word of wisdom.

I was staying at his sister's house for a few days and he came by for a short visit. They had to show off the French convert (Who was me and I just happened to be wearing cut-offs when I walked downstairs not realizing what was going on). He w