Mormon Space Doctrine

1. (from the Reformed Egytpian, therme, meaning "heat in the bosom" and, dunamis, meaning "power in the priesthood") is a splinter group of philosophy and of religion that reveals the effects of changes in doctrine, peer pressure, and volume of hot air at the general conference scale by analyzing the collective motion of their particles of faith using statistics.

2. The total entropy of any isolated cult system tends to increase over time, approaching a maximum value as evidenced by the aging gero-theocracy of its governing body.

3. The value of a cult system can be taken as zero as the absolute value of its foundation approaches zero.

"Ther-MO-dynamics is a faith promoting subject. The first time you go through it, you don't understand it at all. The second time you go through it, you think you understand it, except for one or two small points. The third time you go through it, you know you don't understand it, but by that time you are so used to it, it doesn't bother you any more. The more I bear my testimony of Ther-MO-dynamics in General Conference the truer it becomes."

Also, if a black lab mated with a golden retriever or a "white and delightsome" labrador, would it be death on the spot for both of them?

Does the mormon church have a doctrine, from the mouths of it's prophets on this subject?

I think it's Jewish, one of the Chosen. And my lab is a chocolate, definitely of the lamanite variety. They were extra special in the preexistence.

Because they got bodies and came to earth. All other dog breeds came from wolves so it makes sense to think that the wolves were on Jesus's side in the beginning! They can even "shake" hands if trained. Can you say "sure sign of the nail"?!

And the persicution of the wolves proves its true. What other breed has been persecuted as much? Killed to the brink of extinction, depicted as werewolves in the movies. Actually, I think this proves that wolves are Mormons too.

I was always taught that all living things will be resurrected. Mormon doctrine even teaches the Earth has a spirit and will be resurrected.

So if all living things have a spirit, what about sperm cells? Everyday billions of sperm are ejaculated all over the world. Aside from the few who make it to the egg, the rest die. According to Mormon Doctrine we would have to assume that all sperm cells that have been ejaculated since the dawn of time will be resurrected.

Same with yeast infections. Candida bacteria is a living multiplying organism, so they will be perfected in the next life as well.

What about viruses? They are living things. I guess we can expect AIDS and Influenza to be perfected and resurrected as well.

Welcome to the Celestial Kingdom where everything is oozing with bacteria, viruses, and sperm which grossly outnumber the human population of the after life.

Hindu, Taoist, Mormon, spill theirs just anywhere,
But God loves those who treat their Semen with more care.

Yeah. There are going to be lots of disgusting heaps of "living tissue" that will be resurrected. The CK will be a veritable cesspool of resurrected beings.

Whenever life gets you down, Mrs. Brown, and things seem hard or tough.
and people are stupid, obnoxious or daft,
and you feel that you've had quite enouuuuuuuuugh...

Just re-member that your standing on a planet that's evolvng,
and revolving at nine hundred miles an hour...
That's orbiting at ninety miles a second, so it's reckoned,
the sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me, and all the stars that we can see,
are moving at a million miles a day.
in an outer spiral-arm at forty thousand miles an hour
of the galaxy we call the Milky Way.

Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars,
it's a hundred thousand lightyears side to side.
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand lightyears thick,
but out by us it's just three thousand lightyears wide.
We're thirty thousand lightyears from galactic central point,
we go 'round every two hundred million years.
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions,
in this amazing and expanding universe.

The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding,
in all of the directions it can whiz.
As fast as it can go, that's the speed of light you know;
twelve million miles a minute, that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember when your feeling very small and insecure,
how amazingly unlikely is your birth,
and pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'cause there's bugger-all down here on earth!

...each spermatozoon and each ovum have half a spirit, so all those spermatozoa and ova will be only half ressurected.

When we are resurrected, we will be perfected bodies of "flesh and bone", and not "flesh and blood".

I assume that the gazillions of resurrected head lice can still live in my perfect resurrected hair, and the gazillions of resurrected tape worms can still live in my resurrected bowels, but if we are perfect bodies of flesh and bone with no blood, what will become of all those poor parasites?

So what about liposuction? When liposuction is performed a lot of fat is removed. But the fat itself is stored in little cells. So the living cells that are removed will then be resurrected?

So when a person is resurrected, will they be resurrected with their fat cells back inside them? Or will the fat be resurrected seperately, in some sort of celestial doggie bag?

And what about tumors? Those are composed of living cells. Will that malignant melanoma I had removed from my back be resurrected? I can't imagine it going to the celestial kingdom. Does cancer go to the telestial kingdom?

I guess I won't be going to the celestial kingdom, what with being an apostate and all. Does that mean I'll be spending eternity in the telestial kingdom with that ugly tumorous mole I had removed from my back?

Do they glue the baby teeth to one side of the adult ones? - brian-the-christ

I should be able to eat my sandwiches much faster with two rows of uppers and lowers in the CK.

And so will our pooh, half of it are dead bacterias that needs to be resurrected and cleansed so that they can be in the presense of our creator. The entire earth would collapse under the sheer wight of all the resurrected bodies but god will transform earth to a crystal so there's no worries.

Why a BLACK HOLE of course! Just like the life sucking cult-founder that spawned the insipid gibberish! - by Enigma

When astronomers discover Kolob I hope they send a rover there. Should be interesting. - by BlottoSunday

I hope you don't mind, but I'm trying to figure out this angel business. And it's just a puzzle to me.

You know, Joseph told the tale of the angel with the drawn sword who visited Joseph and threatened to murder him, unless Joseph agreed to obey God's commanded to persaude a 12 year-old girl, Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner, to be his first polygamous wife so that he could rape the little girl.

Sometimes, the best way to understand things is to ask questions. So, if it's okay with my fellow posters, I'd like to begin.

1. butterfly sword
2. cutlass
3. mortuary sword
4. dirk
5. rapier
6. sabre
7. claymore
8. scimitar
9. other

According to wikipedia, "Many swords in mythology, literature and history are named by their wielders or by the person who makes them."

1. The sword in the stone (King Arthur's)
2. Excalibar (King Arthurs - as above)
3. Galatine - (Sir Gawain's)
4. Green Destiny Sword - (Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon)
5. Master Sword (Nintendo game)

I'm just trying to figure it out. I mean, the more detail we get on angel's visit, the better. Right? Sometimes, it's the little details that can help to confirm the facts. Just think about how small DNA is, and yet how powerful.

Besides, if we manage to identify the sword, and FARMS can link that particular sword to an episode in history, then it will confirm Joseph's story beyond any doubt, won't it?

This can be quite important because, in speaking of another angel visit, Joseph said:

“Many true things were spoken by this [angel], and many things that were false. How, it may be asked, was this known to be a bad angel? By the [sandy] color of his Hair...” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith)

Now, if there is some precise detail on the angel’s hair colour, this could confirm if the Angel was a good egg or a bad egg.

1. Was the hair colour blonde? Did anyone check the hair roots of the angel? You see, the angel could have been a peroxide blonde. Sometimes, such people forget to apply the bleach on a regular basis. So it could be that the roots were actually sandy, if which case, the angel’s cover would have been blown. Did Joseph ask to check the roots? Do we know?

2. Was the hair colour blue? Very important. If so, then this impostor was just another member of the “blue rinse brigade”. We see many of these in the UK. They are also known as coffin dodgers. The point is, that if the angel was just a blue rinser, it’s unlikely that he could have slain Joseph with his drawn sword, because trying to swing it may have brought on a coronary attack. If Joseph had notice blue hair, he could have called the angel’s bluff. Oh, but then he would have had to invent another tale to justify his attempted rape of a little girl.

3. Was the hair “woolly and black”, or curly like a person of African descent? We know that the mormon prophets, seers and revelators have prevented those of African descent from holding the priesthood. Therefore, if the angel was of African descent, he must have been a priesthood impostor, and Joseph could have ignored threat to slice his entrails to pieces. Plus, an African angel would not have been allowed to give a white and delightsome guy an orders, because all Africans are meant to be slaves or servants, not bosses. If the white and delightsome God let’s them into heaven, it will only be so that they can serve all the righteous mormon folks. See:

http://www.exmormon.org/boards/w-agora/view.php?bn=exmobb_recovery&key=1141491960&replies=14

4. Was the hair of the angel in a Mohican style, and was the angel wearing any ironmongery on his face. If so, this could suggest that the angel was only a vision of a future punk rocker. In this situation, Joseph could have taken some medication or sobered up, and the angel would have went away.

If only we could get some detail on this angel. The information would help to clear up any doubts in the fair minds of the honest enquirers.

Oh, well. If you have any information on the angel’s hair colour, please let me know. And remember, an angel with sandy coloured hair is a bad egg.

The Plan of Salvation - The Pre-Existence

November 28, 2005 by Moroni Marten

Beyond the outer reaches of space near the planet Kolob, the great Throne of God floats peacefully upon a magnificent cloud. There, the great God, Eloheim, and his harem of wives spend their eternity birthing spirit children.

Eloheim became a God billions of years ago. He started as but a man living an existence upon an earth. There he learned of the gospel of His God and was obedient to His teachings and found the secret codes. As he grew he married many women within the priesthood and made them his eternal wives. After his death and resurrection, he progressed to Godhood and was awarded by His God His own universe. There He organized matter into planets and stars and begat billions of spirit children with His thousands of wives.

But Eloheim soon found that not all was well in His household of billions. His spirit children all had different personalities. Some were quickly obedient to His teachings, while others reluctantly followed with disregard. A few had the spirit of contention and disobedience. As his family grew, so did the number of discontents. Although he punished them as he saw fit, an uprising was brewing, and He knew it.

During a particular family council meeting, Eloheim announced a new directive that met with steep opposition. He told His multitude of spirit children that they will all be forced to live on a world He had created to be tested to see if they can find the secret codes in order to make it back to the Celestial Realm and into His presence again. But He told them that they must have their memories erased and be tormented by hoards of evil spirits trying to deceive them. They must somehow find the secret codes through all the confusing and maddening turmoil in order to make it back. Eloheim told the spirits that only a very few would make it back and that most would be damned from his presence forever.

Of course, many of His spirit children were upset and began to murmur against their father. One of the oldest children of Elohiem, Lucifer, was respected by many of the other children as a leader. He proposed a different plan that would assure that all of his brothers and sisters would make it back to the Celestial Realm. He convinced many of his siblings to support his plan.

Lucifer's proposal was quickly dismissed by Eloheim. In a state of anger and wrath, Eloheim decided to make an example of Lucifer by having him thrown from the Throne of God and into outer darkness where he would live in spiritual hell for the rest of eternity.

But Eloheim miscalculated Lucifer's influence. Soon great multitudes of His children began to speak against Him – billions of them. Eloheim had no choice but to track down the dissenters and subject them to the same fate as their older brother, Lucifer. One by one he found the supporters of Lucifer and had them spiritually executed.

In the end, Eloheim spiritually executed over 30 billion of His spirit children. He gathered his remaining 60 billion children to another family council meeting and explained to them the seriousness of disobeying Him.

Eloheim divided his remaining children into different classes based upon their loyalty and obedience to Him. Some of His children who didn't follow Lucifer but wavered for a time in their devotion to their father were punished by being sent to a disadvantaged area of an earth where finding the secret codes would be very difficult. He also gave them afflictions such as diseases, poverty, hunger, and retardation. He gave them titles such as Chinese and Africans.

Those of His children who were unwaveringly loyal and true to their father were rewarded with being sent to an area of a planet that was blessed with comforts and plenty. There, the secret codes would be easier to find. He blessed them with better health, abundance, and intelligence. He gave them title of Caucasian Americans. But he also warned them that even with the advantages, only a few of them would find the necessary secret codes to be able to return back to Him.

Although many of the Mothers in Heaven objected to Eloheim's tough plan, He told them it was necessary to weed out the weak and to toughen the strong. Only the few who make it back will be able to be worthy to progress to Godhood and become what He Himself has become.

The End

This whopper was one of Joe's best Freudian slips. Can you think of a better phallic symbol than a flaming sword. I'll bet he could feel the burning clear down in his cherry picker. - Pioneer Stock

As you probably are aware, Einstein's theory of Special Relativity states that as an object's velocity approaches the velocity of light, time begins to dilate, or slow down. It's all relative though. Here's a much famed example: you have a set of twins; one stays on earth and the other leaves on a rocktship [traveling at a significant percentage of the velocity of light.] From the point of view of the twin in space, he was only gone for a few years, but when he returns, his twin is long dead and it is apparent that many more years elapsed on earth. (Please click and scroll about 1/3 the way down to "Time Dilation").

I took the time dilation equation from the theory of Special Relativity and I made udjustments to the independent variable "v" until 1 Kolobian day equaled 1000 earth years.

If this time dilation is entirely due to Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity, then Kolob's velocity (relative to earth) is approximately 185,999.999999302 miles per second [or 299,999.999998874 kilometers per second for you metric-system folk ;)]

[Relative to Earth] Kolob is traveling appoximately 99.999999999624731182795698924731% the velocity of light.:)

Any physicist will tell you that such a velocity requires a vast amount of energy that is presently unheard of with today's technology. Obviously, God must be using the same endless supply of bullshit that the church uses as energy to keep Kolob moving at such a speed.

I must apologize, I'm surprised that the Lord hasn't struck me down with lightning for teaching false doctrine. My previous calculations for the Kolobian Day-Earth Day ratio was off by 233 years! I hope you all can forgive me. ;)

185,999.9999993028880952669065 miles per second (or 299,999.99999887562596010791370968 kilometers per second.)

So, [relative to Earth] Kolob is moving at 99.999999999625208653369304569892% the velocity of light.

The above calculations were arrived at using the rough estimate of 186,000 miles per second as c (i.e., the velocity of light). I converted miles per second to kilometers per second by applying the above percentage rate to the rough estimate of 300,000 kilometers per second as c.

Although my calculations may not be 100% precise, I am confident they are accurate (i.e., rather than an error of 233 years, I estimate the new calculations have an error no greater than 3/1000 of a second.)

Although my postings are done tongue-in-cheek, the numbers in them are not made up; they were completely derived using the [attached] equation, where:

t' is the passage of time as observed from the stationary frame (i.e., 1000 years on Earth.)

t is the passage of time as observed from the moving frame (i.e., 1 day on Kolob.)

v is the velocity at which the moving frame is travelling (i.e., 185,999.9999993028880952669065 miles per second.)

I initially tried plugging in the information into an Excel worksheet, but even Excel did not utilize enough decimal places (it only went to the 11th decimal place or so.) This limit in Excel makes a significant difference; it is why my first calculations had an error or 233 years. So I tried using the calculator that comes with Windows. I was able to take the value out to 24 decimal places (which was adequate enough for me (i.e., it significantly reduced my error of 233 years down to about 3/1000 of a second.)

I especially got a chuckle at the seminary class's list of favorite hymns (see below). Just recently, I realized why so many people like that hymn (myself included; mind you that I appreciate the music only, as it is not of LDS origin in any way, shape, or form.) They like it because of the music that is used. Phelps merely wrote text and picked a tune.

The old LDS hymn book has an entirely different tune for "If You Could Hie To Kolob." I think it's a lame tune. See the following: nowscape.com/mormon/kolob

Personally I think "The Brethren" realized how lame some of the music was for many of the hymns. When they re-did the hymn book, they altered many of the tunes with more "catchy" tunes, or as in the case of "If You Could Hie To Kolob," they used an excellent, IMHO, Ralph Vaughn Williams tune and butchered it with Phelps' Kolob lyrics. The Ralph Vaughn Williams tune tends to be very emotionally stirring, whereas the original tune sucks. And we know that "stirred emotions" = "the spirit." So, "The Brethren" know that if they can cause people to experience stirred emotions, they will think it's the HG telling them of truth (e.g., "If You Could Hie To Kolob" must be a true song because I "felt the spirit" as I sing/listen to it, or anything along those lines.)

When my husband and I first moved to Provo, we were unfamiliar with the names of the various local stakes, but we became better educated during a visit to the Provo Temple. We had come to do some sealings, as had a group from Kolob Stake. One temple worker asked my husband, “Are you from Kolob?” He innocently replied, “No, but I’m working on it.” - Denise Turner, Payson, Utah - “Mirthright,” Ensign, June 1976, 79

The third chapter of the book of Abraham offers a remarkable picture of what might be termed “Abrahamic astronomy.” (Abr. 3:1–17.) The prophet is shown various features of the heavens, including even the great astronomical body Kolob, which “is set nigh unto the throne of God.” (Abr. 3:9.) -Daniel C. Peterson, “News from Antiquity,” Ensign, Jan. 1994, 16

Like Samuel loaned then given back, my son,
I thank our Father for these first few years,
knowing even now when you return
your stay will not be long until you range
in wider orbits chosen for your own,
intersecting Kolob in your flight.
Yet, even if I could, I would not change
the plan. What you see at parting, these tears
I brush back from my cheek, are tears of joy.
We taught each other: surely parents learn
much more than they can ever teach a boy.
Eternal tones of Love, familiar voices,
call us gently somewhere from the darkness,
whispering through an ancient temple night.

“In the time of the apostasy in Kirtland … the Spirit of God said to me, ‘You choose a partner and go straight to Fox Islands.’ Well, I knew no more what was on Fox Islands than what was on Kolob. But the Lord told me to go, and I went." - Wilford Woodruff - Deseret Weekly, 7 Nov. 1896, p. 643.

Penelope Moody Allen, “Light (After D&C 88:7–13),” Ensign, July 1991, 56

Light sprays swirling stars through black of night,
Surges incandescent nebular eddies,
Splashes constellations on our sight,
We who walk a spinning mote that steadies
Itself by Kolob’s star in tethered flight.

10 Favorite Hymns of Pleasant Grove Seminary Students - "New Era, Jan. 2000, 12"

"Retire to your beds early, that you may be refreshed, and arise early again, and so continue until times and seasons are changed; or, finally, I say unto you, let the same process be continued from day to day, until you arrive unto one of the days of Kolob (where day is 1000 of our years), the planet nearest unto the habitation of the Eternal Father." - Brigham Young - “Proclamation: For a Day of Praise and Thanksgiving for the Territory of Utah,” "Ensign, Nov. 1971, 40"

It was 100 years ago this month that the Salt Lake Temple was dedicated. Since then, it has become a symbol of eternal happiness for many people. We thought you might like ot know a few interesting facts.

Saturn Stones are located directly below the parapet on each side of the six towers. They represent Kolob, the dwelling place of God.

Imagine our ancestors sometime between 30,000 and 200,000 years ago gazing at the sky considering the solstice. Then, as now, there must have been two basic approaches to nature: fear and wonder.

Unfortunately, fear is the stronger emotion. Its legacies include myth, superstition, religion and authoritarian governments and rulers.

Those who stood in wonder were able, through empirical observations, to explain the natural phenomenon of the solstice. The progeny of wonder are the arts, the sciences and the humanities.

It is unlikely that most people approach the unknown exclusively with either fear or wonder. We all have different mixtures of these two basic emotions. Our challenge is to try to suppress the fears, and then experience and explain the wonders.

One other one I thought you might find interesting. The theory that Cain still roams the earth. Problem: How did he survive the flood?

Answer 1- He was fed through a hole in the bottom of Noahs ark like one of the animals.

Answer 2- He was reverse translated. Just like the people in the city of Enoch were translated, God translates evil people to live forever in their sins.

Here is one for your that I heard. The tower of babel was so high that if you dropped a brick from the top it would take a full day for it to fall to the ground. Remember the earth was 90 times larger than it is now. Using the laws of physics we have been able to calculate using the gravitational constant that the base of the tower of babel was approximagely the size of the land mass of the United States extending into the outer atmosphere. Upon asking where all the material came from to build such an impossible structure, the mormon related well what do you think happened to the 90 percent of the earth it was probably used in making the tower of babel.

You know if God was not dead, you guys would be in deep trouble. But don't worry, the Celestial Kingdom was going to be ridiculously crowded anyway. Joseph Smith said all children who die before the age of 8 go straight to the highest heaven.

Well, damn if infant mortality worldwide is 50% from malnutrition. Five out of ten kids born - boom, take the Great Glass Elevator right to Holy McDonald's Play Place.

I see heaven as an annoying place of too many screeching kids, dried up Primary teachers and Allah-loving suicide bombers. I hope my heavenly mansion has thick friggin' walls to keep out the din.

"A belief that the Earth is hollow and inhabited within has caused a Provo, Utah man to plan an expedition to the North Pole and possibly to the Earth's interior..."

Without reproducing the entire article, here are some of the relevant highlights.

"According to a survey by LDS author R. Clayton Brough, four percent of the LDS population believes in the hollow Earth theory and that it is a probable explanation for the location of the Ten Lost Tribes."

"According to Cluff, there are people in the government who are aware of the opening to the Inner Earth but who have tried to keep this knowledge from the public. 'We have indications that the U.S. military does know about it,' he said."

"Discovering the Inner Earth will set off a new age and a revolution in education and all aspects of society, Cluff said."

"Cluff [expedition leader] said he has written about religious beliefs that he expects to be proven when he goes on the expedition. One of the beliefs is that the Inner Earth is inhabited by the throne of King David from the Bible and that the political Kingdom of God is located there. He also believes that the Lost Garden of Eden is in the hollowed Earth, and its inhabitants are friendly, highly civilized and members of the Ten Lost Tribes."

"Cluff also said the inner sun, which is located in the (skies of the) Inner Earth, is the throne of Jehovah and a paradise for the dead.

"Other beliefs he said he hopes to prove include that UFOs originate in the Inner Earth, and the solar wind and the inner sun cause the Northern Lights "

The Great Salt Lake seems to have attracted many faith promoting rumours. Note the Source:

On the sad character Cain, an interesting story comes to us from Lycurgus A. Wilson's book on the life of David W. Patten. From the book I quote an extract from a letter by Abraham O. Smoot giving his recollection of David Pattern's account of meeting "a very remarkable person who had represented himself as being Cain."

"As I was riding along the road on my mule I suddenly noticed a very strange personage walking beside me.... His head was about even with my shoulders as I sat in my saddle. He wore no clothing, but was covered with hair. His skin was very dark. I asked him where he dwelt and he replied that he had no home, that he was a wanderer in the earth and traveled to and fro. He said he was a very miserable creature, that he had earnestly sought death during his sojourn upon the earth, but that he could not die, and his mission was to destroy the souls of men. About the time he expressed himself thus, I rebuked him in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, and commanded him to go hence, and he immediately departed out of my sight...." (Lycurgus A. Wilson, Life of David W. Patten [Salt Lake City: Deseret News, 1900], p. 50., as quoted by Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness [Salt Lake City, Bookcraft, Inc.]18th printing 1991 p.p. 127-128.)

Stray Mutt said something that deserves deeper exploration. Mutt questioned the whole foundation of the Mormon version of the atonement because God can't seem to forgive on his own.

Mormonism says that God is bound by justice and cannot "save us in our sins." So Jesus comes on the scene and suffers for our sins, paying the debt, so God will let us into heaven. Mormon Church leaders often use the analogy of someone paying your financial debts as a simlitude for Christ's so-called atonement.

"The mediator turned then to the debtor. “If I pay your debt, will you accept me as your creditor?”

“Oh yes, yes,” cried the debtor. “You save me from prison and show mercy to me.”

“Then,” said the benefactor, “you will pay the debt to me and I will set the terms. It will not be easy, but it will be possible. I will provide a way. You need not go to prison.”

But this begs a larger question. Why can't the Mormon God just forgive us outright? Why MUST he make someone "pay" for disobeying him? If God is so keen on justice, then how just is it that someone else suffers for my acts? If my brother kills someone, is it just that I suffer his sentence for murder, instead of him?

There are many problems with this debtor metaphor. For starters, it treats financial debt and moral debt the same way. A creditor doesn't really care who pays him back as long as he gets his money. But moral debt doesn't work that way. For example, If A harms B, it accomplishes no moral justice, except in a sick way, to lock up C and have A do whatever C asks.

Furthermore, this cockeyed system of moral justice treats all debts the same. Everyone is supposed to believe in Jesus, repent, keep the commandments and live a Christ-like life. But what if you had almost nothing to repent from -- no debt -- to start with? You're supposed to spend your life making payments anyway -- the same payments as someone who had a much much greater debt.

And then there's the whole issue of a debt being paid that I didn't ask to be paid for me. Jesus died so that I might live forever? Did anyone ask if I wanted eternal life? It wasn't my idea. Maybe I would have been happy simply ceasing to exist. If I no longer existed, then I wouldn't know I no longer existed. Besides, I haven't done any crime for which I can't do the time on my own.

I have two children and I am able to fogive them on their own merits. I also can show them unconditional love and do not require a mediator or advocate to love and forgive them. If I can do this, being mortal, why can't God do it? Is becoming a Mormon God mean that I would lose this ability to love my children unconditionaly?

Perhaps the mainstream Christian concept of the atonement makes sense, but the Mormon version is wacky, don't you think?

The Ptolemaic System is very reminiscent of LDS theology and apologist attempts to reconcile it with observed phenomena, that is Hebrew DNA or lack there of in the indigenous populations of the pre-Columbian new world, a serious lack of Nephite archaeological sites in the new world, a dearth of BOM plants, animals and steel (and the mining, and refining thereof), etc.

Though I had studied the Ptolemaic System some decades ago, knowledge and comprehension do not always equal integration. It only happened recently that this connection clicked. Thinking of the weird convolutions present day GA go through to excuse some of the really off the wall LDS doctrine and behaviors just started to remind me of the weird convolutions Ptolemy "put the solar system through" mathematically to get it to conform to observed phenomena. The big difference between Ptolemy's system and LDS theology is that from an observational standpoint, Ptolemy's system worked.

There are many good references to the Ptolemaic System on line. This is one that I liked. Ptolemaic system

Not only only were honey bees not introduced to America until the seventeenth century, but horses as well. There were no horses in America until the Spanish and Portuguese took over south and central America. As for elephants -- well! - 10/05/2003 - anon

What do you call every single Mormon going to the Moon?
A: Mission accomplished!

Did you hear that they sent a missionary couple to the Moon, and converted everyone on the Moon as soon as they landed? That's because there was only two people there. No other mission has been so successful.

The Moon is inhabited, otherwise it would be pointless. The sun is also inhabited -

"Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon? ... when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the most ignorant of their fellows. So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain." - Brigham Young, July 24, 1870, "Journal of Discourses", vol. 13, p. 271 a-b.

The notorious "Moon Quaker" remarks. They live for a thousand years... hopefully, mostly outside rest homes.

"As far back as 1837, I know that he [Joseph Smith] said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we do - that they live generally to near the age of a 1000 years. He described the men as averaging near six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style." - Oliver B. Huntington, Feb. 6, 1892, "Young Woman.s Journal", vol. 3, p. 263 b.

The Earth is a living being, that will progress too. This is not too unlike the Gaia hypothesis favoured today by many new age leaning scientists. Oddly enough, perhaps one of the more accurate "Space Doctrines".

"This earth or planet which we inhabit ... itself is subject to certain laws of progression and salvation because of which it eventually will become a fit abode for exalted beings. This earth was created as a living thing, and the Lord ordained that it should live a celestial law." - Bruce McConkie (Apostle), "Mormon Doctrine" (1966) p. 210 a-b.

There is just too much in this particular website, http://www.mormonscience.org/ to analyse properly here, so I suggest following the link and judging for yourselves. Some of the material on reincarnation is not in line with "Mormal" doctrine. - 05/09/2003 - from CX

Unfortunately for the Mos, the ugly truth of reality raises its ugly head again. Being a beekeeper myself, I found mage@wizardearth.com's comment on The "Honey Bee" state of Utah has been mis-named (posted 01/01/2003 below) very interesting. So I did a search on the internet and found the following historical posting on Honey Bees - http://www.angus.co.uk/bibba/bibborig.html It supports the fact that honey bees did not thrive in the Americas

The only picture of the Holy of Holies (in SL Temple) is found in the first edition of James E. Talmadge's "House of the Lord". It was a picture taken around the turn of the century. Also, if you read the text of that book you will learn that what is just inside that door just off the celestial room is not the Holy of Holies proper, but just an outter chamber where there is found three steps (with golden handrailings) leading up to the real doors of the holy of holies. However, even peons in the church, such as myself, can get closer the holy of holies by approaching it from the hallway immediately behind the holy of holies (and the two sealing rooms), there you can actually see the stained glass window of the holy of holies. The holy of holies is also shaped like a big silo (phalic symbol -- how appropriate is that?), and the domed top sticks up into the upper floor forming a room appropriatly called the "dome room" (snicker, snicker). I've only been in the dome room on one of my own "self-guided" tours of the place (nope, I wasn't caught that time).

The room that I was always most currious about was the mystery room off to the side of the holy of holies, as you face the door to the ante chamber to the holy of holies from the celestial room on the left is the sealing room "for the living" and the sealing room on the right of the door is the sealing room "for the dead". If you've been in the back hallway you can tell that the two sealing rooms are MUCH more shallow than the holy of holies, indeed, behind the sealing room for the living is a little room where they shuffle the wedding parties for people getting married in that little sealing room for the living, you will notice that right out of that room there is a LITTLE door that goes directly into the holy of holies. I've presume this is the door the profit actually uses to go chat with the Lard instead of a grand entry from the celestial room. The mystery room is on the other side of the holy of holies from this wedding waiting area and behind the sealing room for the dead. There are no doors to this room so, the ONLY way into this room would have to be from the holy of holies itself. This room is not described at all by James E. Talmadge. It also has a window on the back side (like the holy of holies) but not with stained glass. It does have very heavy drapes on the inside so you can't look in.

Additional evidence that the history of the origination of Mormonism is a falsity.

The honey bee of North America is not native. It was introduced by Europeans in the 1700s. Now why would the last man (Mormon) of an ancient culture who had never in his life seen or heard tell of a honey bee - decide to name the land of God (Deseret) after a non-existent insect?

Joeseph Smith of course, being an ignorant farm boy, would not know that bees were an imported, a non-native species and would have confidently used them as reference and a namesake in his historical fantasy.

Some of you challenged the assertion that Mormonism includes the doctrine of total animal resurrection. As bizzare as this sounds, it has clearly been taught by church leaders from Joseph Smith on down:

"John saw beings there (in heaven) of a thousand forms, that had been saved from ten thousand times ten thousand earths like this,-strange beasts of which we have no conception: all might be seen in heaven. The grand secret was to show John what there was in heaven. John learned that God glorified himself by saving all that his hands had made, whether beasts, fowls, fishes or men; and he will glorify himself with them."

"Says one, "I cannot believe in the salvation of beasts." Any man who would tell you that this could not be, would tell you that the revelations are not true. John heard the words of the beasts giving glory to God, and understood them. God who made the beasts could understand every language spoken by them. The four beasts were four of the most noble animals that had filled the measure of their creation, and had been saved from other worlds, because they were perfect: they were like angels in their sphere. We are not told where they came from, and I do not know; but they were seen and heard by John praising and glorifying God. [See Rev.4:6]" - Prophet Joseph Smith, General Conference held on the floor of the Nauvoo Temple, April 8, 1843 HC5:343-44

"Animals do have spirits and that through the redemption made by our Savior they will come forth in the resurrection, to enjoy the blessing of immortal life." - Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, "Answers to Gospel Questions" Volume 2, Page 48

"Nothing is more absolutely universal than the resurrection. Every living thing and being will be resurrected. "As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." (1 Cor. 15:22.)"

"Just as the creative and redemptive powers of Christ extend to the earth and all things thereon, as also to the infinite expanse of worlds in immensity, so the power of the resurrection is universal in scope. Man, the earth, and all life thereon will come forth in the resurrection. And the resurrection applies to and is going on in other worlds and other galaxies."

"Thus saith the Lord: "And the end shall come, and the heaven and the earth shall be consumed and pass away, and there shall be a new heaven and a new earth. For all old things shall pass away, and all things shall become new, even the heaven and the earth, and all the fulness thereof, both men and beasts, the fowls of the air, and the fishes of the sea; And not one hair, neither mote, shall be lost, for it is the workmanship of mine hand." (D. & C. 29:23-25.)"

"No man can conceive of the glory that may be attained through the resurrection. God himself, the Father of us all, is a glorified, exalted, immortal, resurrected Man! (Teachings, pp. 312, 345-346; D. & C. 130:22.)" - Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Gospel Doctrine, Page 638-643

“I can only tell you what the scriptures say about it,” Daddy replied. “Usually, when we talk about the resurrection, we think of people. But the scriptures teach us that man, the earth, and all the life upon it will be resurrected, mentioning especially the beasts, the fowls of the air, and the fishes of the sea. The Savior gave His life so that everything would rise from the dead, even lizards and robins.” - "Will Robins Go to Heaven?” Church Friend, Apr. 1982, Page 39

"He made the tadpole and the ape, the lion and the elephant but He did not make them in His own image, nor endow them with Godlike reason and intelligence. Nevertheless, the whole animal creation will be perfected and perpetuated in the Hereafter, each class in its 'distinct order or sphere,' and will enjoy 'eternal felicity.' That fact has been made plain in this dispensation (D&C 77:3)." - Church First Presidency Message, Christmas greetings, Dec. 18, 1909

"The Lord created all things for a purpose. Nothing has he created to be destroyed, but that all things might endure forever... The Lord intends to save, not only the earth and the heavens, not only man who dwells upon the earth, but all things which he has created. The animals, the fishes of the sea, the fowls of the air, as well as man, are to be re-created, or renewed, through the resurrection, for they too are living souls." - Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, General Conference, October 1928

"Every creature has a spirit, and that it existed in the spirit before it was on the earth; the spirit of every creature is in the form of its temporal, or mortal, body. Since this is true, and all forms of life partook of the effects of Adam's fall, therefore they are entitled to the resurrection and shall live again. "And not one hair, neither mote, shall be lost for it is the workmanship of mine hand," said the Lord. (D. & C. 29:25.) Likewise the earth, which is a living body, must die "in like manner" as to all other mortal things, and then receive the resurrection. (Isa. 51:6.) The fact that the spirit of every animal, every fish, every fowl of the air, is in the likeness of its body, and that also it was created in the spirit in the beginning, is a contradiction of these unscientific theories which man has inflicted upon a fallen world." - Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, "Church History and Modern Revelation", Published by The Council of The Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, 1946.

If the Church is true, life after the resurrection is going to be overun with mosquitos, rats and cockroaches.

Maybe hell is having the eternal assignment to feed all of these resurrected animals. Remember, they'll all be vegetarians like us too...

Satan only did to Adam and Eve what he had already done on "other worlds," according to the temple endowment. As to my understanding of the endowment: God needs no devil to give fruit to "them". Adam's and Eve's mistake was to take the fruit from the wrong hand. - 07/02/2002 - from m.grantz@hs-zigr.de

Some of this is spoof, so be careful, but if it's referenced it can be checked. The rest of the quotes are gathered by myself.

"...whose hearts leapt with joy and exceeding delectation... and dwelt into the cliffs of the orb of the basin named Hertz-sprung in the sight of all splendor.."

The rest here are roughly based on some things I have heard Mormons talking about. They are mostly Biblical. The Bible is more open to interpretation than Mormon scripture it seems. One of my Mormon teachers had apparently taught astronomy in school, and from him I got a few of the ideas here.

Giant space aliens may have bred with earthlings at some point in the past according to interpretations of Genesis 6:1-13 . Some people consider angels to be true aliens, but others that they are merely progressed humans. The giants fought by Joshua in Canaan were descendants of these "half-breeds" and Goliath was therefore part-alien in ancestry.

These words since removed from the temple ceremony are Adamic which is supposed to be spoken in "Heaven". This is thus an extraterrestrial language too because heaven is in space (see other quotes here).

Certain angels and aliens that travel beyond their "habitation" shall be cast into outer darkness. Jude 1:6 The Tower of Babel was an attempt to build a spaceport Genesis 11:1-9 Satan was punished for his "traffick" between worlds. Ezekiel 28:18

My personal missionary told me that someone had dated a coke can to be a million years old. Not official doctrine, but heard first hand! This shows a serious misunderstanding of carbon dating which is used on organic matter.

At some point in the future at the time of the Day of Judgment the sea shall be destroyed completely. Revelation 21:1

One explanation given of Acts 5:19-23 & Acts 8:38-40... that angels can teleport, and presumably travel faster than light by so.

Elijah was taken into heaven by a UFO. 2 Kings 2:11-12 ... likewise Ezekiel saw spaceships (Ezekiel 1:1-28 & Ezekiel 2:12-14 - although this is more under the influence of Erich von Daniken than the prophets!). The pillar of fire that led Moses to the Promised Land is said to be a spacecraft as well. Mormons point out that Ezekiel refers to "creatures" implying that they are not necessarily human in appearance.

Numerous apocalyptic passages all over the Bible and in the Mormon scriptures talk about stars falling from heaven in the last days. I was taught in seminary that this was referring to the fact that the world will be ended in part by a massive meteor shower. See Revelation 12:3-5 and many others. We discussed this a couple of times in classes, and I answered the question "correctly".

This is referred to in Job 38:4-7 . The Stars "sing"... Space is a vacuum and as such proper sound cannot cross it.

As well as being in control of the Earth, Satan had a home planet "Rahab" (meaning arrogance or strength in Hebrew).

- Rahab was blown up into pieces and became the asteroid belt. Psalms 89:10-11 & Isaiah 51:9

- Job 26 refers to the "empty place" under the north pole where UFOs come from. Verse 12 refers to Rahab, since Rahab means "proud".

- Revelation 12:7-9 talks about a home planet of the bad angels, and may be Rahab or their present home. Daniel 12:39 refers to Satan allying with the ruler of another planet.

Satan is cast into the lake of fire which is depths of a star, or a supernova and/or the core of the earth. Reference needed.

Comets are controlled by Satan. Jude 1:13 Nebulae are also homes to the fallen. 2 Peter 2:17

I am LDS and have a few comments on your web page entitled "Mormon Space Doctrine":

The paragraph where you state that Mormons believe that Giant space aliens may have bred with earth people is not true. There is no room for that interpretation of that scripture in LDS belief, since the Joseph Smith translation corrected that scripture in Genesis to say "the sons of men were with the daughters of god" (as opposed to vice versa) and that it simply means the daughters in the Abrahamic covenant began to marry outside of the covenant, or believers. You can verify this information by reading the Joseph Smith translation of Genesis (available in the LDS standard works) and/or the commentary of that scripture in the church-published Old Testament institute manual.

Elijah taken into UFO.. well, the bible says a "flaming chariot" and LDS doctirine accepts the biblical record completely. The definition of UFO is "Unidentified Flying Object". It is clear that the chariot was flying, and unlikely that the locals at the time would have not been able to "identify" it, so it is, by definition a UFO. Both are true, but your use of the term "UFO" is clearly an attempt at sensationalism and distorts the truth.

The paragraph about Satan's home planet, "Rehab" is absolute nonsense. We believe Satan was a spirit son of god, as are all of us, and rebelled and was cast out, from where he previously dwelled in the presence of god, and all of us, in the preexistence. He never dwelt on "Rehab" or any other "home planet" according to LDS doctrine. Again I would refer you to official church publications on the matter.

"Stargate to Kolob"?? That is absolutely ridiculous, and I have been through ever temple ordinance. You are treading on very sacred ground with comments like that.

Ezekiel's Vision: Any Christian Bible scholar will tell you the "creatures" ezekiel saw were symbolic representations, are were not just simple humans in appearance. There is nothing in LDS teaching that says they were UFO's... again a term that has no real meaning other than sensationalism.

Black Holes prisons for bad angels? Nope, there is no such thing as a "bad angel", angels are messengers of God and as such must be obedient to him, in LDS doctirine every angel that ministers to this earth is either a person that lived and was resurrected, was translated (taken into heaven, such as Elijah) or is a spirit which is yet to live on earth. There are no angels being punished and living in black holes!

I chose to comment on these things because they are absolute fabrications with no basis in LDS belief. Many of the other statements on your page are interpretations based on partial truths which I disagree with but could not possibly ask you to remove. Still other statements on the page are true, but I hope you will, on the basis of my comments and research with official church publications and, in the interest of intellectual honesty, correct the statements which I listed and are complete fabrications that you, no doubt, heard from uninformed and speculative church members (there are many). Thank you for your time.

I should point out to Stargazer that most of what I talk about is interpretation of the Bible in the eyes of certain LDS members, rather than openly admitted doctrine.

You will notice that I included (FPR) after the Stargate quote since that stands for "Faith Promoting Rumor" or Urban Legend... that means that a large chunk of Mormons believe it, but I doubt you'd hear the current Prophet pandering to that nonsense, since he tends to be more sober than either Young or Smith.

Perhaps ex-Angel would be a better term, if we are referring to the opponents in the War in Heaven, that is supposed to have happened in our pre-existence.

I have read several times in various places a quote from Smith himself, or one of the early prophets that the different between Angels of God and bad/false/ex-Angels is that the good ones have bodies.

'it simply means the daughters in the Abrahamic covenant began to marry outside of the covenant, or believers'

Then again, we are all supposed to be God's children are we not, even if we are fallen? As you yourself said earlier - 'We believe Satan was a spirit son of god, as are all of us'

'your use of the term "UFO" is clearly an attempt at sensationalism and distorts the truth'

Flaming chariot in the sky, phantom airship or flying saucer... call it what you will, it's some kind of aircraft in the loosest sense, and some take that further and make it into a space craft.

This IS a controversial subject. I feel that not only has "Battlestar Galatica" engendered certain of these (folk?) beliefs, but has even implied them in some cases! Anyway, having feedback from a church member is only fair... but I would add that several of these doctrines were actually taught to me in the church!

"Freeman Dyson [distinguished physicist and educator best known for his speculative work on the possibility of extraterrestrial civilizations] was an excitingly imaginative scientist who proposed that a highly advanced technological civilization would ultimately completely surround its host star with a huge shell to capture 100% of the useful radiant energy. This "Dyson shell" or "Dyson sphere" as subsequent writers have called it, would have a gigantic cluster of artificial planetoids (called a "Dyson cloud") with billions of billions of inhabitants who would make use of the energy captured by the Dyson shell. Freeman Dyson also made the most intriguing speculation that a Dyson sphere viewed from afar--from other star systems or other galaxies--would have a highly distinctive and unnatural light. He advised that astronomers search the heavens for such tell-tale colored stars, which could only signify highly advanced, intelligent life."

- God says the correct name for our Sun is "Shinehah," which is the name He gave it. Also, the correct name of the moon is "Olea." See Abraham 3:13.

- Kolob is "the great governing star of our universe" and "the residence of God." See Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith's "Church History and Modern Revelation" Volume 3, Page 60.

- The Sun is a celestialized world, where its inhabitants are perfected. Brigham Young taught in General Conference said: "So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather know it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized." See Journal of Discourses, 13:271. Also see Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Volume 1 Page 88: "Earth to be Celestialized Sun"

- The Earth will undergo a perfection after the millenium and become a huge seer stone of glass. People living on the Earth after this transformation will be able to look into the Earth and see things happening on "inferior" planets. See D&C 130:9

- Kolob is the North Star, according to Joseph Smith. This restored truth is from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith.

- No wait, Kolob is at the center of our Galaxy, which all others stars rotate around. See Clark, J. Reuben Jr., "Behold the Lamb of God," page 46, "Kolob, the Governor"

- The Earth actually has a spirit, just like we do. It had to be baptized (the flood) to fulfill all richeousness, just like us. It will also have to receive the baptism of fire (at the second coming of Christ) in order to receive its exaltation and become a celestialized world. See Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith's "Doctrines of Salvation," Volume 1, page 87 "Celestial Destiny of the Earth.

- When Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden, the Earth was closely orbiting Kolob, like God's home planet. But when Adam and Eve fell, so did the Earth and it was hurled across the cosmos and placed in orbit around our sun in this planetary system. After the Millenium, the Earth will return to its rightful place near God, orbiting Kolob. See Church Ensign, March 1997, Page 16 "The Book of Abraham: A Most Remarkable Book," and Journal of Discourses, 17:143 and Journal of Discourses 7:163

- Black Holes are "outer darkness" where God will cast those sons of perditions that deny His spirit. This includes all ex-mos. See "The Creation," page 146 and D&C 101:90-91

- The light of Christ is really just the light coming from the Sun and the Moon. See D&C 88:7.

- Joseph Smith taught that the Earth was created like a cake, from ingredients of different ages. Just like a cake was made from wheat that is a year old, eggs from a few days and milk fresh this morning from the cow, so too, the Earth is made from parts of different ages. Still need reference.

- God created everything twice, just like Plato said. First there was a spiritual creation, and then there was a physical creation. See Moses 3:5 and Endowment Ceremony.

- God did not create the physical Earth Himself. Actually, we all helped out. Under the direction of Jesus and Adam, ALL OF US created the Earth. Some of us created trees, others created rocks and still others created animals, based on God's blueprints. Still need reference.

- Mars and Venus have dry rivers that match perfectly with rivers on Earth, proving that parts of all three were "organized" from parts of a same old planet. Scientists say the moon was formed out of the Earth, why not the other planets too? Still need reference.

- God can't get his story straight about which order he created the Earth. The order of the days of creation in Moses contradict the order given in the Temple Endowment, which are both inspired truth. The third and fourth days of creation are switched in the temple ceremony, wheras Moses matches the order of Genesis. See Moses 2:9-19 and Temple Ceremony (all versions).

- God created the Earth first, then He created the Sun, Moon and stars and the rest of the universe. On the first day of creation God creates the earth (see Moses 2:2-5). On the second day, God creates earth's oceans and the atmosphere (see Moses 2:6-8). On the third day, God separates the land from the water and creates vegetation, fruits and trees (see Moses 2:9-13). Finally, on the fourth day, God creates the Sun, Moon and stars (see Moses 2:14-19).

- There are human beings on many other planets that look just like us because they too, are in the image of God. See New Era Article " People on Other Worlds" April 1971.

- UFOs are from the City of Enoch, that was raised to heaven because the citizens attained perfection. City of Enoch story is in the Perl of Great Price. Still need reference to UFO tie-in.

- Joseph Smith taught that the Ten Lost Tribes had gone to the North Pole, as it used to be warm, but God divided the planet in two and they wound up between Texas and Florida. Then God scooped them up, leaving a big hole called the Gulf of Mexico. And these millions of Hebrews are today on this island floating around in the solar system, but we can't see them because God has them flying at an angle where the telescopes can't pick them up. But one day the island will crash back into the Gulf and the earth will reel to and fro like a drunken man. See http://www.code-co.com/rcf/mhistdoc/enoch.htm for tons of scriputral and JS Teaching references.

- UFOs are from the lost ten tribes, which live underneath the north pole. As explained in the Doctine and Covenants, these tribes will return by flight from the north in the Last Days. See D&C 110:11 and 133:26.

- Earth is the most evil of all of God's worlds in the Universe. God sent Christ here because it was the only world that was wicked enough to kill Jesus. Still need reference.

- All of the other planets in the universe with God's children have prophets who preach to them about Chist's life, death and resurrection on Earth. Just as our prophets tell us that other worlds have human life on them, so to, true prophets on other worlds teach the life of Christ as he lived it on this Earth Still need reference.

- Mars is populated by beings who, like us, were created in the image of God, so they look like us. Except they are waiting to hear about the Gospel, which we will preach to them during the millenium. Still need reference.

- Satan only did to Adam and Eve what he had already done on "other worlds," according to the temple endowment.

- "Thus the Lord has given us the information regarding his creations, and how he has made many earths, for there never was a beginning, never was a time when man did not exist somewhere in the universe, and when the time came for this earth to be peopled the Lord, our God, transplanted upon it from some other earth, the life which is found here." Improvement Era, Vol 23:389-393; Joseph Fielding Smith; "The Origin and Destiny of Man"; 1919

- All spirit is matter, just "more fine or pure" form of matter which we cannot measure. See D&C 131:7.

- The Mormon God cannot destroy or create matter, he can only "reorganize" it. So the Solar System was formed from other previous creations. See Temple Endowment, The Contributor, Vol. 4, p. 257, and Joseph Smith As Scientist, p. 14.

- God has cursed water and turned it over to Satan to control. Satan controls bodies of water, especialy rivers. See D&C 61:13-19

- All matter in the universe chooses to obey God's law. If God had not sacrificed his Only Beggoten Son to fulfill the atonement and satisfy the law, then matter would not have continued to respect God and matter would not have continued to obey Him. This is from Jesus the Christ and expounded on heavily by the Living Apostle Neal A. Maxwell. Still need reference.

- Light is the sole medium which God has for governing the universe. See Journal of Discources, Volume 15:232

- The Earth is the spirit world, where the billions of deceased spirits now live. In fact, there are spirits all around us right now, yet we cannot see them and they cannot see us, thanks to "the veil." [This is so much like a few Star Trek episodes!] Still need reference.

- When babies are born, "the veil" is still very thin and as newborns they can see spirits, remember the "pre-exisitence" and still hear God directly. It's only later after months trapped in a physical body that "the veil" begins to close over their spritual awareness. Still need reference.

- Just before people die, "the veil" once again lifts and they start to see again all the spirits and angels all around us. Still need reference.

- God lives in the fourth dimension, which explains why he can see everything, be everywhere and know all time. In fact, as three-dimensional beings, if we could visit flatland (a two-dimensional universe) the inhabiants would think we were Gods. Still need reference.

- The Holy of Holies in the Salt Lake Temple actually contains a portal to the celestial realm at Kolob. [Talk about a Stargate!] Still need reference.

- God travels much faster than the speed of light. God travels at the "speed of thought." Still need reference.

- A day for God is like a thousand years on Earth. This is because it takes a thousand Earth years for God's home planet Kolob to rotate around once on its axis. See Abraham 3:4-5

- Adam and Eve living in the Garden of Eden were "subject to Kolob Time." See abraham 5:13

- Seer stones allow us to see past, present and future events at any location. All of those that make it to the Celestial Kingdom will have their own seer stone, to review any moment or location in the universe. See D&C 130:10-11

- If it wasn't for "Cherubum and a Flaming Sword" in front of the tree of life, Adam and Eve would have lived "forever" after eating the forbidden fruit. See Alma 12:21, 42:2-3 and Moses 4:31

- A richeous man's "time" on this Earth is not "cut short," according to the D&C 122:9.

- Christ's atonement was eternal, reached back in time and retro-actively saved the faithful who lived and died before the event occurred, yet they were told to wait for his coming in order to be saved. Still need reference.

- God showed his temporal prophets "everything from the beginning to the end of time", as accounts record in the Pearl of Great Price and the Book of Mormon. See stories of Nephi, Moses and Abraham.

- Right from the scriptures, the Earth's total temporal existance is 7,000 years. See D&C 77:6

- There's more gold and mineral riches in Utah than the rest of the world combined. It's hidden from you because of a lack of faith. There's no need to go to California to pan for Gold, because God will reveal these riches to you when you are richeous enough. This was preached a lot from the pulpit during Brigham Young's lifetime. Still need reference.

- Fossilized dinosaur bones are from dinosaurs that lived on other worlds that were destroyed to create the Earth. They were living creatures, but not from this Earth. (See Creation above) Still need reference.

- Carbon dating is phoney because God has altered the Earth so many times with processes we can't understand or measure. Still need reference.

- The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. Noah was taken to the Old World by the Flood. This teaching was given by Joseph Smith and is still accepted as true doctrine. Given this teaching, Mormons have to accepts the Flood as a global phenomenon. Still need reference.

- Adam and Eve had perfect bodies that had God's blood in their veins. As soon as they ate the fruit, they poisoned their bodies and their blood became impure, which made them mortal. Basically, Adam and Eve broke the Word of Wisdom, according to Joseph F. Smith. Still need reference.

- Adam lived nearly 1,000 years and the prophets used to live hundreds of years because they lived the Word of Wisdom perfectly and had more of God's blood in their veins. Over time, the human race has polluted blood more and more. Still need reference.

- Drinking tea may tan your stomach similarly to what happens in a teapot. (Missionary teaching technique taken seriously by some).

- All races, including blacks, asians, indians etc.. will be resurrected in their perfect state as white caucasians. Still need reference.

- Our Spirit bodies look exactly the same as our physical bodies, even before birth. In the book of Mormon Christ appeared (and touched the stones) to the Brother of Jared in the BoM in his spirit form, which appeared the same as his future body would thousands of years later when he was born. See Ether 3:15-17

- Resurrection is simply a priesthood ordinance not yet revealed, but that will be revealed after the millenium. Still need reference.

Back in 1996 I was on staff at the scout camp in Salmon Id. I was the only NoMo there, which already made me a target for a daily barrage of prostelytizing. Well one day I was sitting with a bunch of holier-than-thou morgbots when the subject of Bigfoot came up. One of the Mo's asked the others sitting there where Bigfoot came from, I quipped that he was a myth, and they all looked at me like I was insane! The Kool-aid drinker who asked the question in the first place "Informed" me that actually it was bigfoot who had the mark of Cain! I kid you not! I sat there dumbfounded not saying a word! I was just wondering if you people at the Salamander Society have heard of this knuckle-headed doctrine ? - 04/11/2008 - jordo

As a sidenote to the very first speculation of this page: it's questionable to call viruses "living", since they don't meet the criteria of "living things" as we know it today. They, for example, do multiply and carry genetic information, but don't have any cells. I don't know how a Mormon missionary would wiggle him-/herself out of this one though... - 01/30/2008 - Gerbera

I am a believing and practicing member of the church--I like to take the time to read what you people like to write about us and then search it out for myself. The funny thing is that half of these things have truth to them, but of course, the other half are solid lies. Something that you will never understand is WHY members of the church believe the church is true. You will certainly keep writing down your opinions about why you think they do, but you will never really know. Well, I take that back, i suppose you may know someday, but not unless something changes in you. Well, it's been fun. I now post my remarks for you to mock and ridicule. - 11/27/2007 - anon

WELL .......THIS IS A GREAT THEME THAT MAKES OUR SPIRITS SHAKE . i DESIRE TO KNOW WHERE DID YOU GET THE INFORMATION 'CUZ IT MAKES MY MIND RUN TO EMPTY. i AM MEMBER OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY-SAINTS AND WE HAVE THE SAME DOCTRINE AS YOU. THE PICTURES YOU SHOW ARE REAL? PLEASE LET ME KNOW IT CONCERS ME.

It is interesting that you have missed the common thread in all this the holy ghost a being that is able to spiritually contact every being that has been given the gift of the holy ghost with the authority of god is this the reason latter day saints are different do they have some thing the holy ghost in their lives that no other people on earth save the mormons have. - 04/29/2007 - little one

Various Daoist religious scriptures are said ro have been found on ancient metal plates, supposedly buried by a supernatural being and dug up centuries later in response to a dream or vision. A rumor of this doctrine may have been transmitted to New England via whalers and other New England shippers. The idea could have been picked up by New England Freemansons, and passed on to the relatives of Joseph Smith. [There is hardly any other plausible explanation of the Mormon doctrine concerning this; it simply is not known in European traditions.] - 09/08/2005 - from x127@00.gs

Mormon Space Doctrine

"Spaced out" or inspired...you make the call.

Laws of Ther-MO-dynamics

Dogs - Were poodles, black labradors and bulldogs less valiant in the pre-existence?

Will sperm be resurrected?

BYU Scientists Convert Matter into Mormonism

Mormon Astronomy 101

Angel Questions - The Sword

Research and development in heaven

What Joseph got right and wrong about space

Einstein's Kolobian theory of Special Relativity

Kolob - Notes from way out there

Fear and wonder

Cain survived the Great Flood - High Tower of Babel

Great Glass Elevator to Celestial Kingdom

Mormons Believe in Hollow Earth Theory?

Cain and Bigfoot

The Mormon version of the atonement doesn't make sense

Ptolemy vs. the Klowns of Kolob

Mormons on the Moon

Moonies, Quakies, Sunnies & Gaia

Honey bees did not thrive in the Americas

The "Holy of Holies"

The "Honey Bee" state of Utah has been mis-named

References to animal resurrection - I'm not making this stuff up!

Selenians and other Cosmic Life Forms

Spencer's Enlightenment

Kolob Imagined by Non-Mormon Physicist

Mormon Space Doctrine - Quotes & References

Comment and Additional Quote and Reference Section