The "M" Word

03/31/2016 last update

From the age of innocence to decades of shame and guilt. Reactions to the Mormon General Authority obsession with human sexuality.

Boyd K Packer masturbation master teacher.
Masturbation Bowel Movement Parody Image.

Click image for an excellent YouTube parody on masturbation and bowel movements

The Little Factory

03/31/2016 - by Sunbeep at

I have a Little Factory, but for the first dozen years I didn't know what it was or what it did except for one very basic function. Never really paid much attention to it. As I entered my teen years I became aware that this Little Factory would sometimes make itself known in small subtle ways. On occasion it seemed to want to start up on it's own with the morning shift being the most active. Every now and then the graveyard shift would go to work and manufacture a little surprise too.

In my mid-teen years the Little Factory was almost always in the fore front of my thoughts. I was curious about it and wondered why it acted the way it did. About this time the Bishop called me into his office and talked to me about the "M" word. I didn't know what it was so I said "No". I had no idea the grief I had avoided simply by being naive.

Girls don't have Little Factories, they have Loading Docks. Their Loading Docks are also multi-function but their biggest purpose is shipping and receiving. They also have more paper work to deal with than Little Factories. Most Little Factories need a Loading Dock nearby and most Loading Docks prefer to be close to a Little Factory. Occasionally a Loading Dock would rather be by another Loading Dock, the same with Little Factories. Local Zoning Laws try to regulate these placements and much is discussed concerning this issue. Hopefully someday, Little Factories and Loading Docks can situate wherever they darn well feel like it.

Even though magazines were around, I had never actually seen a real Loading Dock until I was married. Then there was a flurry of activity at this particular Loading Dock. The Little Factory now had a license for full production. After a decent amount of receiving, the shipping part started up. This continued for years with unabated shipping and receiving. We had many urgent Morg orders to fill you know.

After six packages had been shipped we decided we needed to Unionize. We needed the protection of the Union even though we knew that the Morg was against this protection. The parties at the Loading Dock continued, but we had enough packages and didnÔt want any more. Don't get me wrong here, we still did lots of receiving, just tried to stop the shipping.

Some years later we severed the lines of communication between shipping and receiving. We also cut ties with the Union and went without their protection with much delight. Union protection was a good thing, we just didn't need their protection anymore. We frolicked without Union protection.

Many years later now, the Loading Dock is gone and the Little Factory has mostly shut down. The boiler fire isn't as hot and the conveyor belt barely runs. The packages we delivered have their own Little Factories and Loading Docks now. It's their time to flourish. It was a good run but reluctantly I will have to shut this Little Factory down and lock the doors. Good bye Little Factory.

LDS Physician - Masturbation can be a spiritual celebration

12/04/2003 - from Heber

I feel it is essential to youth for us to speak out truthfully about masturbation. I am grateful for the internet and this website so I can speak truthfully as a latter-day saint on a subject that I would otherwise receive social sanctioning for speaking out on. Perhaps in this forum members can truly “bear testimony” without fear or feeling a need for social conformity. The following is a sincere and truthful account of my masturbation experience in the church.

I am an LDS member who faithfully followed church teachings all during my youth. My parents were very loving and I had an excellent home. I always wanted to “do what was right” and had a hard time understanding why some other kids didn’t. In my teens, when my buddies from church experimented with alcohol etc. I just wasn’t interested. I had fun being the designated driver and felt I was doing my part protecting them from harm.

I wasn’t self righteous or judgemental, or stuffy about it. I just genuinely liked being a caring and healthy person and my friends knew I was there for them no matter which path they chose. I got good grades, didn’t smoke, drink, or swear, and was not unpopular. I was fairly popular at school and exemplified church standards. I went through the scouting program, served a mission, finished college and was married in the temple to a lovely LDS girl and now have a beautiful family and a new grandson. In short, I could have been a poster child for the church, inside and out. No, I wasn’t perfect, but by both American and church standards my life genuinely reflected successful living of healthy social ideals.

It is important for me to state the above, because I want readers to know I am a dedicated, highly self-disciplined, and spiritually dedicated person who will follow authority in faith. Leaders have my faith and trust until they obviously and repeatedly abuse it unrightiously. I am now in my 50’s and I have learned that the church teaches many helpful things, but I have also learned by experience that in some areas it has adopted American cultural values and unfortunately some leaders speak as men who promote their own personal ideals as truths that are frankly damaging to members. I believe when this happens it is unintentional.

Christ taught “by their fruits ye shall know them”. This is a simple test. It teaches us to follow the words of the church leaders in faith and see where they lead. Many times their words have steered me right, but sometimes their doctrine has hurt me and my loved ones. A wise church member will not ask “if the church is true” but rather “when are the leaders teachings true”. The concept of inner voice or conscience is our way to confirm when church leaders are human and fallible. As a missionary, I showed the film “Man’s Search for Happiness” hundreds of times. It states, “Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good. Only if you are unafraid of the truth can you find it”. I take that as wise counsel.

I have tested the words of church leaders about masturbation by following their advice to the letter by being abstinent and “worthy”. I have the capacity to be highly self disciplined and have lived for periods in my life sexually abstinent as taught by the general authorities of the church. After using the spiritual tests taught by Christ and comparing the spiritual fruits of masturbation abstinence to my experience masturbating, my personal experience bears testimony that the well meaning advice of LDS prophets on masturbation is false and damaging to physical, mental, and spiritual health.

I do not state this casually, but with serious and sobering experience. I have followed the words of Christ to see the fruits of church teachings on masturbation. Masturbation abstinence as taught by church leaders only has brought me suffering, and feelings of shame.

When I was a little boy I was innocent and had not heard the word masturbation. I discovered the joy of having a body. I delighted in running, playing, eating yummy food, and feeling the warmth of the summer sun on my skin. I loved all the wonderful feelings of my body including the beautiful ones in my penis. My penis magically got hard all by itself. I had no choice but to feel wonderful. Of course I felt joyful washing, discovering and touching it.

As I grew and I was attracted to girls, I noticed my penis would feel good in response. I naturally associated my delicious genital feelings with being in love. I remember at age five falling in love with a movie star on TV lamenting that I was just a little boy. I wanted to be grown up so I could marry her. I had no idea about sexual intercourse, but the pleasure of my sexual feelings in my genitals instinctively were associated to marriage and love.

I went through all the normal developmental stages of being a boy. I had crushes on girls, experimented with shy kissing games, and dreamed of becoming a man like my dad. I occasionally touched my beautiful penis all through my childhood. I had no reason to feel any shame. I loved the wonderful feelings I felt. Although I learned to be modest, I associated them with being in love and everything good. At eight I would dream of girls I liked as I caressed my penis in bed at night and drifted off to sleep. I had heavenly dreams of love and marriage. When I neared puberty, I learned about intercourse, and dreamed of marrying a beautiful girl in the temple one day.

Being in love, kissing, intercourse, temple marriage, loving kindness were all daydreams I had while lovingly celebrating my sexual feelings touching my penis in bed at night. I was experiencing a healthy integration of my sexual awareness with my spiritual and family values as I masturbated. Medicine and psychiatry recognize this as a healthy developmental stage toward maturity that young men experience in order to prepare for healthy bonding with their wife and future family. It is rightly called by some professionals “marriage preparation” or “marriage rehearsal play”. The term masturbation is popular but is an old one that predates developmental psychology.

Today, as a physician, I know the history of masturbation. It is no wonder that it has suffered such a bad reputation in the past. Prior to 1900, Western medicine believed that loss of semen damaged the nervous system and caused insanity. Many diseases such as tuberculosis and STD’s were falsely attributed to masturbation. By the 1940’s we had scientific data that proved all these ideas false. This data showed that almost 100% of males report masturbation during puberty. This demonstrates that it does not lead to a change of sexual orientation, or disease, or anything negative, but that it is developmentally appropriate and leads primarily to a healthy marriage bond in the majority of cases.

Jesus Christ never said anything about masturbation. It was not an issue. It is significant that church leaders have not claimed or stated they received any “thus saith the Lord” revelations on masturbation from God. This is obvious since Joseph Smith and scriptures have said nothing about it. Church leaders only began talking about it in the very late 1800’s when they told youth the same false medical information that was popular at the time - that it caused insanity.

A few decades later, when that was obviously not the case anymore, and everyone knew that the masturbation insanity and disease story was false, church leaders adopted the new popular socially conservative American moral view (the “worldly” view). The church has a continual history of mimicking popular conservative public opinion when it comes to masturbation.

This behavior should make it pretty obvious that the Lord has not revealed the truth of the matter through the church leaders otherwise they would have not fallen for any of the false tales of “the world” and would have revealed the truth. Not only have LDS youth not received the truth about masturbation, they have suffered from extremely damaged self-worth. They are taught to fight against the Lord’s healthy developmental process that is only designed to drive them toward healthy marital bonding and family life.

I will never forget when a young inexperienced bishop’s counselor took it upon himself to come into our Deacons Quorum and “warn” us against the horrors of masturbation. This lesson was not in the manual. To this day, I have no idea why he felt compelled or authorized to give us such a lesson.

I was an innocent boy of 12 and president of the quorum. I had not fully reached puberty yet and had never ejaculated. I did not know what the word “masturbation” meant. I soon found out. I sat frozen as he graphically described what masturbation was and how it made boys “evil”. He told us that sexual sins ranked right next to murder. I could hardly believe what I was hearing. Of course I knew that it was not alright to be sexual with someone besides your wife, but what he was telling me about my penis was just the opposite of my own beautiful experiences. To me, my penis and the pleasure I derived from stroking it while daydreaming of girls I loved and temple marriage was holy and special.

In fact it was so holy that the bishop’s counselor’s words seemed sacrilegious and completely inappropriate. To me masturbation had no negative associations. It was a prayer of celebration for love and marriage. My own spiritual experiences with masturbation told me that he was lying. I knew inside my inner self could not lie to my heart and spirit.

The problem was that I was just a 12 year old boy. I was a deacon. What did I know compared to the bishopric? He was in the bishopric. He was Jesus’ mouthpiece. I was Jesus’ servant who held his holy priesthood. I loved Jesus and loved to obey him. My own tender testimony of love for my masculinity and my desire to marry and share love with my wife and family were totally crushed beneath the weight of authority. I was now an “evil” boy, who had been committing a sin next to murder in seriousness all though my innocent childhood. It was horrifying to realize I was so evil.

Today I recognize this action by my priesthood leader as spiritual and sexual abuse of an innocent child. His authoritarian position invalidated my authentic inner spiritual voice. In that moment my priesthood leader created clinical neurosis in me that I struggled to heal far into my adult life. It was unquestionably abusive and damaging.

The tragic irony of this whole situation is that the top leaders of the LDS church sincerely want to help the youth be sexually healthy and have good marriages. Their failure to meet their responsibility to become medically educated about masturbation has resulted in one of the great social tragedies of Mormonism – unintentional and covert sexual and spiritual abuse of the youth.

Masturbation was a hot topic for all us neurotic unintentionally abused Mormon boys. We talked amongst ourselves about our struggles with abstinence; our successes and ultimate failures. We repented over and over in an effort to feel worthy through high school, missions, college and into marriage. Our self-worth was seriously damaged.

One serious boy I knew told me he “knew he was naturally evil” because he tried and tried repenting many times over but could not remain totally abstinent. He begged God to take away his sexual desire or bless him with “wet dreams” like other boys (Even after months of abstinence he never had a nocturnal emission – his spiritual leaders were ignorant of the medical fact that a sizable percentage of males are completely incapable of having nocturnal emissions). Since he was “naturally evil” he accepted that drinking was no worse than masturbation and sadly found some solace for his internalized shame in alcohol.

Another close friend once in a moment of purging his guilt before leaving on his mission confided to me his own unique strategy. We lived in a farm community and he decided that since he had never heard that sex with animals was sinful he was safer to place a stool behind a cow to stand on and have sex with it than he was to masturbate. His dad, by the way, was our stake president and his uncle was a notable apostle. We had never heard of bestiality. He too was trying to cope. Today he is a respectable judge, family man and priesthood leader in his community.

As church leaders ignore the medical data of science about the psychological damage that masturbation abstinence causes, they ignorantly perpetuate some of the very things they seek to prevent. Youth turn to damaging psychological coping strategies to cope with the unbearable internalized shame that Mormon leaders create by labeling the healthy developmental process of masturbation as “evil” and associating it to the concept that “sexual sin is next to murder” (Such generalization without qualification is irresponsible by church leaders. There is an obvious difference in the social impact of various sexual behaviors, for example the extreme difference between masturbation and rape).

A tragic wake up call to the General Authorities of the church came in 1982 when an Idaho priest Kip Eliason committed suicide after deciding he was “unworthy” to live because he could be 100% abstinent all the time. His Bishop promised him he could. In his suicide note to his dad he said he hated himself for not being able to conquer this “sin” and could not stand to live any longer. Kip was a 4.0 student, Eagle Scout candidate, school track star and held up by his teachers at church and school as an ideal youth.

He was the consummate Mormon boy who was dedicated to Christ far beyond the commitment of most boys. His innocent blood cries out as a testimony against the false Mormon teachings about masturbation. Unbelievably, even as one of Mormondom’s finest priesthood youth lay dead before their own eyes, church leaders have not ended the abusive masturbation “worthiness” interviews that were unquestionably the direct cause of this innocent 16 year old priest’s death. I suggest you read the case report, examine the evidence yourself, and then put the question to Christ’s test:”By their fruits ye shall know them”. You can find the article published online on several websites by searching under Kip Eliason’s name.

After serving many years in the church in various callings, today I have healed from most of the spiritual abuse caused by my priesthood leaders being influenced by false masturbation ideas of “the world”. It took a lot of personal spiritual growth, prayer and study to separate out what were healthy true principles that are mixed with the false social concepts in the church. My medical schooling has shown me empirical proof that masturbation is not an “evil” behavior.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that masturbation results in any physical, psychological, spiritual damage or unhealthiness. Some Mormons leaders falsely equate feelings of guilt with “loss of the spirit”. These feelings actually are psychological responses that result from leaders “promising” individuals they will feel guilty. This is not the “loss of spirit” it merely is a psychological self-fulfilling prophecy caused by internalized shame. I have treated numerous individuals suffering from church caused masturbation shame. Their spiritual feelings return when their neurotic shame is healed. These patents report they masturbate and feel more psychologically and spiritually healthy than they did before.

I want to tell anyone struggling with this issue to remember your joyful innocent God given feelings that you knew while masturbating as a child, before you were told it was “bad”. Why would God give you the natural desire to masturbate if it were not good for your development and serve to prepare you for marriage? It is part of his plan to prepare you for bonding with the one you love. As a missionary I had many investigators, members, and priesthood leaders tell me they felt the spirit of God in me on days I had masturbated. I struggled like most Elders to be abstinent, and was most of the time, but my priesthood leaders acknowledged God’s spirit the same on “masturbation days” as “abstinent days.” The same held true in all my church callings. Since my priesthood leaders acknowledged that the spirit was with me, this was a further witness to me that masturbation did not cause spiritual damage.

Today we also know that masturbation is vital to health. New medical studies verify the importance of masturbation to health. Masturbation prevents prostate cancer, and keeps the reproductive system strong and healthy. There is an overwhelming body of data that demonstrates that individuals who are abstinent from masturbation are at greater risk for cancer, youth suicide, depression, psychological dysfunction, and marital problems.

A final word, I suggest to you that masturbation can be a spiritual celebration, and that God absolutely approves of masturbation. I testify that I have experienced some of my most spiritual moments while masturbating as a child and also as a man. I have felt God’s presence and spirit with me as I have thanked him for the great gift of sexuality while masturbating, and while daydreaming of how much I love and am attracted to my beautiful wife.

Masturbation helped my wife learn how her body can experience orgasm. Women do not have an automatic orgasmic response like men do. Many women who have marital problems solve them through masturbation as a therapeutic exercise. My wife’s ability to orgasm has increased our bond and capacity to love one another. In this way masturbation contributes to LDS family values by enriching marriage (LDS leaders have acknowledged repeatedly that a large percentage of LDS divorces are based on sexual unhappiness).

I have felt God’s spirit with me more, while masturbating with love, than in any church or temple. I was experiencing God dwelling in my temple, and approving of my sexuality. Masturbating with loving intention is a prayer of gratitude and celebration of life.

Editor's note: The Salamander Society is honored to post this wise, sensitive and timely material. The irony that this active LDS physician is forced to use an "anti-Mormon" web site to freely express his views is profoundly sad. May this material stand in honor of those boys and girls and men and women who have suffered so needlessly at the hands of pseudo-spiritual LDS leaders.


Compare what this LDS Physician says with the inspired suggestions of an apostle.


Steps in Overcoming Masturbation

reportedly by Mark E. Petersen - Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

Be assured that you can be cured of your difficulty. Many have been, both male and female, and you can be also if you determine that it must be so.

This determination is the first step. That is where we begin. You must decide that you will end this practice, and when you make that decision, the problem will be greatly reduced at once.

But it must be more than a hope or a whish, more than knowing that it is good for you. It must be actually a DECISION. If you truly make up your mind that you will be cured, then you will have the strength to resist any tendencies which you may have and any temptations which may come to you.

After you have made this decision, then observe the following specific guidelines:

A Guide to Self-Control:

1. Never touch the intimate parts of your body except during normal toilet processes.

2. Avoid being alone as much as possible. Find good company and stay in this good company.

3. If you are associated with other persons having this same problem, YOU MUST BREAK OFF THEIR FRIENDSHIP. Never associate with other people having the same weakness. Don't suppose that two of you will quit together, you never will. You must get away from people of that kind. Just to be in their presence will keep your problem foremost in your mind.

The problem must be taken OUT OF YOUR MIND for that is where it really exists. Your mind must be on other and more wholesome things.

4. When you bathe, do not admire yourself in a mirror. Never stay in the bath more than five or six minutes -- just long enough to bathe and dry and dress AND THEN GET OUT OF THE BATHROOM into a room where you will have some member of your family present.

5. When in bed, if that is where you have your problem for the most part, dress yourself for the night so securely that you cannot easily touch your vital parts, and so that it would be difficult and time consuming for you to remove those clothes. By the time you started to remove protective clothing you would have sufficiently controlled your thinking that the temptation would leave you.

6. If the temptation seems overpowering while you are in bed, GET OUT OF BED AND GO INTO THE KITCHEN AND FIX YOURSELF A SNACK, even if it is in the middle of the night, and even if you are not hungry, and despite your fears of gaining weight. The purpose behind this suggestion is that you GET YOUR MIND ON SOMETHING ELSE. You are the subject of your thoughts, so to speak.

7. Never read pornographic material. Never read about your problem. Keep it out of mind. Remember -- "First a thought, then an act." The thought pattern must be changed. You must not allow this problem to remain in your mid. When you accomplish that, you soon will be free of the act.

8. Put wholesome thoughts into your mind at all times. Read good books -- Church books -- Scriptures -- Sermons of the Brethern [sic, Cistern too?]. Make a daily habit of reading at least one chapter of Scripture, preferably from one of the four Gospels in the New Testament, or the Book of Mormon. The four Gospels -- Matthew, Mark, Luke and John -- above anything else in the Bible can be helpful because of their uplifting qualities.

9. Pray. But when you pray, don't pray about this problem, for that will tend to keep [it] in your mind more than ever. Pray for faith, pray for understanding of the Scriptures, pray for the Missionaries, the General Authorities, your friends, your families, BUT KEEP THE PROBLEM OUT OF YOUR MIND BY NOT MENTIONING IT EVER -- NOT IN CONVERSATION WITH OTHERS, NOT IN YOUR PRAYERS. KEEP IT _OUT_ of your mind!

The attitude of a person toward his problem has an affect [sic] on how easy it is to overcome. It is essential that a firm commitment be made to control the habit. As a person understands his reasons for the behavior, and is sensitive to the conditions or situations that may trigger a desire for the act, he develops the power to control it.

We are taught that our bodies are temples of God, and are to be clean so that the Holy Ghost may dwell within us. Masturbation is a sinful habit that robs one of the Spirit and creates guilt and emotional stress. It is not physically harmful unless practiced in the extreme. It is a habit that is totally self-centered, and secretive, and in no way expresses the proper use of the procreative power given to man to fulfill eternal purposes. It therefore separates a person from God and defeats the gospel plan.

This self-gratifying activity will cause one to lose his self-respect testimony becomes weak, and missionary work and other Church callings become burdensome, offerings.

To help in planning an effective program to overcome the problem a brieation is given of how the reproductive organs in a young man function.

The testes in your body are continually producing hundreds of millions of reproductive cells call spermatozoa_. These are moved up a tube called the vas deferens to a place called the ampulla_ where they are mixed with fluids from two membranous pouches called seminal vesicles_ and the prostate gland.

It is normal for the vesicles to be emptied occasionally at night. Often an erotic dream is experienced at the same time, and is a part of this normal process. Instead of course, the reproductive system is operating at a more rapid pace, trying to keep up with the loss of semen. When one stops the habit, the body will continue to produce at his increased rate which is not harmful, but urges to do the habit are to be endured until the normal central nervous system pathway of release takes over.

During this period of control several things can be done to make the person stop. As one meets with his Priesthood Leader, a program for overcoming masturbation can be implemented using some of these suggestions. Remember it is essential that a regular report program be agreed on, so progress can be recognized and failures understood and eliminated.


1. Pray daily, ask for the gifts of the Spirit, that which will strengthen you against temptation. Pray fervently when the temptations are the strongest.

2. Follow a program of vigorous daily exercise. The exercises reduce emotional tension and depression and are absolutely basic to the solution of this problem. Double your physical activity when you feel stress increasing.

3. When the temptation to masturbate is strong, yell STOP to those thoughts as loudly as you can in your mind and then recite a pre chosen Scripture or sing an inspirational hymn. It is important to turn your thoughts away from the selfish need to indulge.

4. Set goals of abstinence, begin with a day, then a week, month, year and finally commit to never doing it again. Until you commit yourself to _never again_ you will always be open to temptation.

5. Change in behavior and attitude is most easily achieved through a changed self-image. Spend time every day imagining yourself strong and in control, easily overcoming tempting situations.

6. Begin to work daily on a self-improvement program. Relate this plan to improving your Church service, to improving your relationships with your family, God and others. Strive to enhance your strengths and talents.

7. Be outgoing and friendly. Force yourself to be with others and learn to enjoy working and talking to them. Use principles of developing friendships found in books such as "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie.

8. Be aware of situations that depress you or that cause you to feel lonely, bored, frustrated or discouraged. These emotional states can trigger the desire to masturbate as a way of escape. Plan in advance to counter these low periods through various activities, such as reading a book, visiting a friend, doing something athletic, etc.

9. Make a pocket calendar for a month on a small card. Carry it with you, but show it to no one. If you have a lapse of self control, color the day black. Your goal will be to have _no black days_. The calendar becomes a strong visual reminder of self control and should be looked at when you are tempted to add another black day. Keep your calendar up until you have at least three clear months.

10. A careful study will indicate you have had the problem at certain times and under certain conditions. Try and recall, in detail, what your particular times and conditions were. Now that you understand how it happens, plan to break the pattern through counter activities.

11. In the field of psychotherapy there is a very effective technique called aversion therapy. When we associate or think of something very distasteful with something which has been pleasurable, but undesirable, the distasteful thought and feeling will begin to cancel out that which was pleasurable. If you associate something very distasteful ith your loss of self-control it will help you to stop the act. For example, if you are tempted to masturbate, think of having to bathe in a tub of worms, and eat several of them as you do the act.

12. During your toileting and shower activities leave the bathroom door or shower curtain partly open, to discourage being alone in total privacy. Take cool brief showers.

13. Arise immediately in the mornings. Do not lie in bed awake, no matter what time of day it is. Get up and do something. Start each day with an enthusiastic activity.

14. Keep your bladder empty. Refrain from drinking large amounts of fluids before retiring.

15. Reduce the amount of spices and condiments in your food. Eat as lightly as possible at night.

16 Wear pajamas that are difficult to open, yet loose and not binding.

17. Avoid people, situations, pictures or reading materials that might create sexual excitement.

18. It is sometimes helpful to have a physical object to use in overcoming this problem. A Book of Mormon, firmly held in hand, even in bed at night has proven helpful in extreme cases.

19. In very severe cases it may be necessary to tie a hand to the bed frame with a tie in order that the habit of masturbating in a semi-sleep condition can be broken. This can also be accomplished by wearing several layers of clothing which would be difficult to remove while half asleep.

20. Set up a reward system for your successes. It does not have to be a big reward. A quarter in a receptacle each time you overcome or reach a goal. Spend it on something which delights you and will be a continuing reminder of your progress.

21. Do not let yourself return to any past habit or attitude patterns which were part of your problem. "Satan Never Gives Up." Be calmly and confidently on guard. Keep a positive mental attitude. You can win this fight! The joy and strength you will feel when you do will give your whole life a radiant and spiritual glow of satisfaction and fulfillment.


Bishops or Stake Presidents Masturbating?

08/04/2014 - by anonexmowanna and others at Recovery from Mormonism

Question for Stake Presidents and Bishops. How many of you are here on

How many of you masturbated while you were a bishop or stake president? Was the guilt extremely bad? Just curious on how leaders felt about this topic.


People who harp endlessly on certain "problems" usually have those problems themselves. Therefore, my guess would be that all of the GAs have masturbated and cannot deal with the fact. - Claire


Before my disaffection began to really gain much traction, I had what I'm sure was an opportunity to be bishop. (I had recently miraculously moved into a declining ward that needed a new bishop, I had a stellar Mormon father's reputation to proceed me, I was childhood friends with the SP counselor's son, and they ended up calling a poor fellow who had ended his prior sentence as bishop because of difficult emotional and familial circumstances.) I was asked about masturbation and could have easily justified to myself that I had repented since the last tug. But I was at a point where I wasn't ashamed and didn't mind saying it like it was. I think the SP was hopeful that I was just being too unforgiving of myself because he went into asking details about frequency.

So yes, I'm convinced that most church leaders service themselves and feel a lot of guilt and shame over it. Poor bastards. - Good Clean Fun


I have a sister that used to work for church social services. She was the person that made the appointments and typed the reports. The therapist she worked for specialized in bishops/stake presidents and also sexual perverts. She told me that nearly every bishop and stake president was a client in the part of the country she lives in. She had to make sure they arrived and left without anyone knowing they where there (different doors).

I remember hearing at a youth fireside the scripture about cutting off the thing that offends god. Of course they also talked about god being offended when you masturbate. Hum, cut it off and that would make god love you.

What a crazy religion. - themaster


My ex-wife's bishop was known to have done it in front of younger members of the ward *and* to have taught some of them how to do it themselves. - Rusty Shackleford


I've known a bishop in my stake in the 90's that had a grave problem with masturbation. He was caught on the act inside his parked car. Some random pedestrian saw it an called the police. It went to the local newspaper and everyone in the stake ended up knowing. No need to say he was immediately released. - Anonimous


Immediate release is what we all seek. Jackmymo


I once attended a priesthood leadership meeting that the First Presidency and Q12 conducted via satellite, around 2004. What I still remember, all these years later, is that they talked extensively about porn and masturbation. One of the "apostles" (I don't remember who, but I want to say that it was Elder Perry) said that porn and masturbation were a major problem for many Bishops.

I was at BYU at the time, and I remember thinking, "Heck, if my Bishops are doing it, then why do they make me loathe myself for confessing something that they apparently do. Furthermore, why should I ever degrade myself again by confessing to those hypocrites?!"

Unfortunately, I still remained a TBM (True Believing Mormon) for several more years (till 2011).

Let me put it this way...They don't call it "making the bald bishop cry" for no reason!- magicrocks


In the late 70s, I had an interview with Spencer W Kimball, and spilled the beans to him. He kept asking for more and more details on every little act and every guy I had been with which at that time were too numerous to recall. (Hey it was the 70s and the party was going strong.) I kept noticing a lot of movement with his arm in his lap and finally realized while I was giving him all the nasty details of gay sex he was playing with himself. So much for revering the Lord's anointed.

No joke here. I'm an old guy now, and don't have to worry about the big M problem since all machines and factories eventually wear out. - anon this time


And i always assumed the reason I didn't advance in the church hierarchy was because I liked to play with my willie all the time. I seriously thought they had discernment to know i was not worthy. And now you tell me bishops do it too? - wanta


I think that since it is natural and healthy that just about everyone at least occasionally does it. I wish that is wasnt seen a such a horrible sin because I think that anything that says that the natural man is an enemy to god is a really damaging thing. - suzanne


I'll never forget my SP asking me during my mission interview if I masturbate. I have come to believe that he himself was guilty of the deed. As someone said above, those who ask are the ones who are doing it. - Once was TBM


I was in a regional training meeting for BP's and SP's and M. Russell Ballard warned us to not do it. Yes, BP and SP are men. Yes, they suffer from excessive guilt over it. Their lives are very stress-filled. Stress, depression and guilt actually increase masturbation in my experience. - baneberry


Boyd Kinsey Packer Institute of Reproductive Science - Press Release

11/26/2010 - by BYU

The University of Notre Dame funded a study to see why the head of a man's Penis was larger than the shaft. After 1 year and $180,000, they concluded that the reason that the head was larger than the shaft was to give the man more pleasure during sex.

After Notre Dame published the study, Wellesley College decided to do their own study. After $250,000 and 3 years of research, they concluded that the reason the head was larger than the shaft was to give the woman more pleasure during sex.

True to form, Elder Boyd K Packer's obsession with male sexual activity inspired him to direct his pet department at Brigham Young University to conduct their own "hands on" study.

After 2 weeks and a cost of around $75.46, they concluded that it was to keep a man's hand from flying off and hitting himself in the forehead.

Several graduate students who worked closely with Packer on the study surmised that the concave shape of Packer's own forehead creates the permanent scowl always found on his face, especially during General Conference.


Boyd K Packer masturbation large ears.

Lizard's Little Factory

12/12/2009 - by lol

Just after dinner one night, my son came up to tell me there was "something wrong" with one of the two lizards he holds prisoner in his room.

"He's just lying there looking sick," he told me. "I'm serious, Dad. Can you help?"

Reptile dysfunction. I put my best lizard-healer expression on my face and followed him into his bedroom. One of the little lizards was indeed lying on his back, looking stressed. I immediately knew what to do.

"Honey," I called, "come look at the lizard!"

"Oh, my gosh!" my wife exclaimed. "She's having babies."

"What?" my son demanded. "But their names are Bert and Ernie, Mom!"

I was equally outraged.

"Hey, how can that be? I thought we said we didn't want them to reproduce," I said accusingly to my wife.

"Well, what do you want me to do, post a sign in their cage?" she inquired (I think she actually said this sarcastically!).

"No, but you were supposed to get two boys!" I reminded her, (in my most loving, calm, sweet voice, while gritting my teeth).

"Yeah, Bert and Ernie!" my son agreed.

"Well, it's just a little hard to tell on some guys, you know," she informed me (Again with the sarcasm!).

By now the rest of the family had gathered to see what was going on. I shrugged, deciding to make the best of it.

"Kids, this is going to be a wondrous experience," I announced "We're about to witness the miracle of birth."

"Oh, gross!" they shrieked

"Well, isn't THAT just great? What are we going to do with a litter of tiny little lizard babies?" my wife wanted to know.

We peered at the patient. After much struggling, what looked like a tiny foot would appear briefly, vanishing a scant second later.

"We don't appear to be making much progress," I noted.

"It's breech," my wife whispered, horrified.

"Do something, Dad !" my son urged.

"Okay, okay." Squeamishly, I reached in and grabbed the foot when it next appeared, giving it a gentle tug. It disappeared. I tried several more times with the same results.

"Should I call 911?" my eldest daughter wanted to know.

"Maybe they could talk us through the trauma." (You see a pattern here with the females in my house?)

Lizard Little Factory. "Let's get Ernie to the vet," I said grimly. We drove to the vet with my son holding the cage in his lap.

"Breathe, Ernie, breathe," he urged.

"I don't think lizards do Lamaze," his mother noted to him. (Women can be so cruel to their own young I mean what she does to me is one thing, but this boy is of her womb, for God's sake.).

The vet took Ernie back to the examining room and peered at the little animal through a magnifying glass.

"What do you think, Doc, a C-section?" I suggested scientifically.

"Oh, very interesting," he murmured. "Mr. and Mrs. Cameron, may I speak to you privately for a moment?"

I gulped, nodding for my son to step outside.

"Is Ernie going to be okay?" my wife asked.

"Oh, perfectly," the vet assured us. "This lizard is not in labor. In fact, that isn't EVER going to happen. . . Ernie is a boy. You see, Ernie is a young male. And occasionally, as they come into maturity, like most male species, they um . . um . . . masturbate. Just the way he did, lying on his back." He blushed, glancing at my wife.

We were silent, absorbing this.

"So, Ernie's just . just . .. . excited," my wife offered.

"Exactly," the vet replied, relieved that we understood.

More silence. Then my vicious, cruel wife started to giggle. And giggle. And then even laugh loudly.

"What's so funny?" I demanded, knowing, but not believing that the woman I married would commit the upcoming affront to my flawless manliness.

Tears were now running down her face. "It's just .that . . I'm picturing you pulling on its . . its. . . teeny little . . " She gasped for more air to bellow in laughter once more.

"That's enough," I warned. We thanked the vet and hurriedly bundled the lizard and our son back into the car.. He was glad everything was going to be okay.

"I know Ernie's really thankful for what you did, Dad," he told me.

"Oh, you have NO idea," my wife agreed, collapsing with laughter.

Two lizards: $140.

One cage: $50.

Trip to the vet: $30.

Memory of your husband pulling on a lizard's winkie:


Moral of the story: With men some things never change.

Comment: Now, I've heard of one's "lizard" being the object of masturbation, but never the subject.- panache45

Comment: If a male lizard can not get an erection is that called reptile disfunction? - T Rex

Masturbation in Christian Church

02/16/2009 - by Marc

Masturbation in Christian Church is discouraged but not condemned, one Pastor from out of town came and talked to the Church members about Sex and Sexuality and mentioned masturbation , most of the children there got embarrassed, as they knew what he was talking about and realized that everyone else now knew they did it. He never said it was sinful or wrong but it can be a distraction from other 'Christian duties'.

How these people can get so involved in children s sexuality and sexual activity, sorry but if my son came home and said Dad someone at church asked me if i masturbated (what is masturbation would come next), I would wonder what that persons motive is. and sure as i am writing this I would call police to investigate this person.

What children do alone, in private is nobody's business but their own. ad lib that to your teachings, God knows what we do.

The Unwritten Order of Your Little Factory

03/02/2008 - by Boyd K Packer

Good Afternoon Young Men.

I will be speaking about what I call the "unwritten order of your little factory." My lesson might be entitled "The Ordinary Things about your Little Factory Which Every Young Man Should Know." Although they are very ordinary things, they are, nevertheless, very important! We somehow assume that everybody knows all the ordinary things about their little factory already. If you do know them, you must have learned them through observation and experience, for they are not written anywhere and they are not taught in classes, at least not the type of wholesome classes we should be taking.

So, as we continue, if you are ones that know it all, be patient while I teach those who do not--and take a nap. The basic foundation of knowledge and testimony never changes--the testimony that God the Father lives, that Jesus is the Christ, that the Holy Ghost inspires us, that there has been a restoration, that the fullness of the gospel and the same organization that existed in the primitive church have been revealed to us. Those things are taught everywhere and always--in our classes, the scriptures, the handbooks and the manuals--in everything we do.

While the things I will talk about are not written, they are really quite easily learned. Just be alert to the unwritten order of your little factory and take an interest in it, and you will find that you will increase your little factories ability and its value to the Lord.

Before I give you a few samples of the unwritten order of our little factories, let me remind you what the Lord said: "My house is a house of order, saith the Lord God" (D&C 132:18; emphasis added). It follows that our little factories should be factories of order.

Paul told the Corinthians that "all things" were to "be done decently and in order" (see 1 Cor. 14:40; emphasis added). We'll return to that in a moment or two. The things I am going to tell you about are not so rigid that your factory will fall apart if they are not strictly observed all the time. But they do set a tone, a standard, of dignity and order and will improve your little factory.

I give as my first illustration of this unwritten order of your little factory things so simple a thing as this: When you go to the bathroom, first, unzip your zipper, then pull out your little factory using your right hand, then release the waste product, shake your little factory no more than 5 times, to avoid stimulating it, but no less than three to ensure no droplets remain on the tip of your little factory. Next, stuff your little factory back in your pants, using your right hand. finally, zip up. Flush, and if you live with a woman, be sure to put the seat down.

An unexperienced young man sometimes will ask, "Must I use my right hand when going to the bathroom? What if I am left handed?" I tell him, "When you go to the bathroom, you are to use your right hand." I am tempted to say, but I don't, "I can't have that privilege; why should you?"

Another example: If you watch your father shower, you will see that he cleans his little factory last. There is a reason for this that we will get back to. You will also notice your father doesn't spend a lot of time washing his little factory. It doesn't take more than a few seconds to clean off your little factory. There is no excuse for excessive cleaning. Excessing cleaning opens the doors for the adversary to tempt you into fondling. The lines between excessive cleaning and fondling are blurry, and must be avoided at ALL COSTS.

You mustn't ever clean your little factory more than once. There is absolutely no excuse for returning to clean your little factory after it has already been cleaned, which brings us back to our first point. Always clean your little factory last, using your right hand. Wash your hair and face first, your arms and torso second, your legs third, and your little factory last. Once you have finished cleaning your little factory, turn off the shower, and get out. There should be no reason to remain in the shower after cleaning your little factory one time. This is a demonstration of doing things "decently and in order," as Paul told us.

Part of the unwritten order of all things is to do as we are told. We should listen to the counsel of the brethren in all things. There is no more important part of a young man's body than his little factory. You must protect it at all costs. The unwritten order of your little factory is meant to protect you.

Your little factory will continue to crank along. It will move on, and it moves on just because you learn by observation, learn by teaching, learn by experience. Most of all, we learn because we are motivated by the Spirit. One day, of course, you who are young now will lead the Church. If in the intervening time you will learn and study the unwritten order of your little factory, the power of the Lord will be upon your little factory and make you be a usefule servant.

I bear you my testimony, in the name of Jesus Christ's little factory, Amen.


The Amazing ability of Mormonism to keep people isolated

10/02/2007 - by lightfingerlouie

When I look back on my years in Mormonism, I realize how isolated I was. Mormonism, by its nature, is able to "divide and conquer" its members.

In the first place, no-one really dares talk about their doubts, or fears, or disbelief. No-one dares tackle the thorny problem of not taking "the Prophet" seriously either. By nature, and by temple promise, Mormons dare not "speak ill of the Lord's anointed."

Every now and then, someone would be honest. But instead of having it open the floodgates, it was quickly stopped. It was very rare to have a critical conversation go anywhere. You looked over your shoulder, and wondered if someone was listening. You were not supposed to have doubts, feelings, or questions.

As a kid, I did not dare talk about masturbation. I was ashamed of it. I was doing wrong. I was sure I was the only kid in the church who had masturbated.

I remember a Stake President talking about it during a conference, and I was sure he was directing it at me alone. No-one else in that building could have masturbated. It was just me.

When I finally did try to talk to my father, he exploded, pulled out "Mormon Doctrine," and read me the words of Bruce. I never talked to him about anything personal again. He only had one source for answers---Bruce McConkie. How I hated Bruce McConkie. I still do.

When I went to the temple, and came away horrified, I could not talk to anyone. It was just dreadful. I felt I was part of a sick cult, but I could not tell anyone. I tried an indirect approach, and was told that I just needed to keep going. I did, and it got worse.

You just don't have anyone to talk to. Bishops are just neighbors. They have no training and no answers. To go to them for help, or counsel (as the church likes to call it) is useless. The Bishop can ask you about masturbation, but he can't help with anything important. He is just a schlulb like you. And I would bet he masturbated as well.

Missionaries are also very isolated. They have no-one to talk to. Every now and then, you would get a companion you liked, and could talk to, but most of the time, you clammed up. You were always with someone, but you were always alone. Missionaries are thousands of miles from home, surrounded by fellow Mormons, and unable to show any honesty at all. You are always on the Lord's stage, always "strong," always "free of doubt." What a laugh.

And what a church. They have the most lonely members on the planet. Doubt is weakness, and weakness can lead to questions, accusations, and trouble. The family can't help, the Bishop can't help, and the church does not want to help. The Mercury astronauts were never more alone than Mormon church members. Mormons and astronauts know what its like to be alone in the dark.


Vaughn J. Featherstone, "A Self-Inflicted Purging"

02/18/2007 - by Kathleen Waters

Scroll of Shame for Mormon masturbators.

Here is your masturbation talk from Priesthood Session, April 5, 1975 in which Vaughn J. Featherstone uses the "your name on a giant scroll" threat. It also has a nice little "we can raise the dead quote." There is also a hilarious suggestion that the ability to raise the dead will be denied to any priesthood holder who spanked the monkey the preceding night. Here are the pertinent parts of that infamous talk:

Vaughn J. Featherstone, "A Self-Inflicted Purging," Ensign, May 1975, 66

Vaughn J Featherstone threatens boys and men who masturbate. Now, my young friends, and I am sorry to say, many adults, how about all those of you who have a masturbation problem? If the names of those who had the problem were projected across this big, huge scroll, would your name be there, or would you be able to sit back confident and pure in heart?

And, in a few cases, what if we had the names of those who had a homosexual problem? What if their names were on this huge scroll? Their names removed, then what if we had those who are adulterers, who are serving in priesthood positions, unbeknownst to many, unbeknownst unto anyone except themselves and the partner in sin?

Again let us talk about a self-inflicting purging. My young friends, how about all of you who have committed fornication? Or have been involved in petting? Suppose their names were on this huge scroll, so that all may see. Now, I can tell you this, I bear my solemn witness that if you do not self-inflict a purging in your lives, the time may well come when there might not be a scroll, but it will be as though there were. It may be as though it had been shouted from the tops of houses. People cannot hide sin. You cannot mock God and hold the Lord's holy priesthood and pretend to propose that you are his servant.

I know of a great man who held his dead son in his arms, and said, "In the name of Jesus Christ and by the power and authority of the Holy Melchizedek Priesthood, I command you to live." And the dead boy opened up his eyes. This great brother could not have possibly done that had he been looking at a pornographic piece of material a few nights before or if he had been involved in any other transgression of that kind. The priesthood has to have a pure conduit to operate.


LISTEN UP, "BRETHREN" and parents - female ex-mo has news for

07/30/2006 - by nycgirl

I would like to relate my experiences with this subject in the hopes that it will help someone who reads this. This is not an easy topic to write about! If there are any current members reading this, please, please read this post to the end because this topic is so important to the health and development of your children.

My experiences with masturbation began for me at a young age, probably 3 or 4. I don't know what gave me the idea to do this but I would use running water (swimming pool jets, bathtub faucets, etc) and actually began having orgasms at that young age. I had never heard of the word 'masturbation' and only (innocently!) thought I had found out about a wonderful ability of my body. As many others have posted, it was a time of normal, natural self-discovery and a very happy period of my childhood development. I never felt guilty about it and even noticed some of my little friends would do the same.

That is until one day my mom busted in on me in the bathtub (around 5 years old) and began ranting and raving about how "BAD" that was and how she'd better not catch me doing that again. Well she never caught me again although I kept doing it from time to time. Only now I began to feel shameful about my body and my developing sexuality. I guess I understand her being shocked but parents please - if you walk in on your child, don't just scream at them and then drop it, EXPLAIN things to them in a kind and loving way!

Anyway, I was a curious child and I was about 7 or 8 when I ran across and read some of the church literature concerning masturbation. Talk about being shocked! Now I had a name for it and put two and two together to understand why my mom had been so upset. I was going to Outer Darkness for what I had been doing!! I was "evil" and it would be better if I were dead, if I could not control my urges. Not only that, I read and understood at that age that I would not be able to continue doing it (which I admit I enjoyed) even after I grew up and married. I had thought that once you were married, "anything goes," but this is when I learned that in the church's view, sex was basically for procreation only. So I was hit with a double whammy - what I had thought was normal and natural was pure evil, I was pure evil, and not only was it not okay to do this now, I would NEVER be able to and still be a good mormon girl or wife. And further, after my mom's reaction the first time, she was the LAST person I was going to talk to about this.

In my little mind, my saving grace was that my baptism was coming up, and I knew I would be "white as snow" with my sins washed away. So I decided it was okay to keep doing it until I got baptized, but then with my clean slate I would quit cold turkey. Well after I was baptized I stopped for a while, but once I slipped up the guilt came crashing down like you wouldn't believe, and not to be too dramatic here, but the guilt TORTURED me throughout my pre-teen and teen years. Literally. I became withdrawn and had anxiety issues because I kept picturing the "giant movie screen" I'd been told would show everyone my sins. I was haunted by the idea of my school teachers, friends, aunts, uncles, etc., everyone I knew watching me do this. Now that idea seems so ridiculous but I was truly terrified of it then. Those who have not lived through these scare tactics would not understand, but I think many of you on this site do.

The other reason I was so petrified was that I knew that to be "clean" I would have to confess this to my bishop (who was my friend's father, no less). I put it off as long as possible, (years) - by now I was in young womens, and there was a temple trip coming up to do baptisms for the dead. I was being pressured to go, and I was so racked with guilt I knew I would have to confess my "sins" in my interview.

I don't think any event in my entire life before or since has rivaled the dread and panic I felt leading up to that interview. I was so nervous I was literally sick, and I was shaking all over when I walked into the room. I was practically convusing. Do you really want your children to feel that way?? I couldn't get my words out straight, but somehow, in a flood of tears, I admitted how long I'd been "sinning" and asked for forgiveness.

Imagine! A female child asking her MALE FRIEND'S FATHER to forgive her for such a personal matter, being asked graphic questions, and I distinctly remember being told that I may have turned to doing that because of sexual abuse as a child (which was not true). If a woman is raped, does she go to a MALE or FEMALE nurse/rape counselor? Female of course, because why would a sexually traumatized woman (which I was), feel comfortable talking to a male?? Especially one with no medical or psychological training, or even any sensitivity training whatsoever? He gave me a blessing after the confession, and just feeling his hands touch me made me want to hurl. Even though I felt a sense of relief for it being over with, I had the creepy feeling even then that things were somehow just not right. I did go on the temple trip, but felt so uneasy about the whole experience that I declined to do baptisms and never went back. But from then on every time I saw this man, (or his wife or children), I began shaking and felt waves of nausea come over me. I could never bring myself to look him in the eyes again, knowing he knew "my big secret."

As an aside, he was later excommunicated for unrelated reasons, which left me wondering - if he was unworthy, had God not gotten the message? Was I supposed to confess again to someone else?? I panicked at that thought, and decided instead I would just make excuses to avoid interviews. Like many others on this site, I was too concerned with being a perfect mormon to lie, and that character trait cost me many precious years of my innocent childhood.

I am now a well-educated woman in my early thirties. I am extremely happily partnered (to a non-LDS man), and I would like to think I'm happy and well adjusted despite my rocky childhood. The reasons I left the church are for another post (this one's long enough!) but they have more to do with my extensive research of church history than this experience. If I had found that the church held up to my questioning, I would have stayed in it and suffered through how ever many interviews I had to to "make it to the CK.." but as so many of you know, once the questions start forming, the answers are no match for them. And so I was (reluctantly) faced with the realization that the church was a crock, and since I had been raised in it, there would be hell to pay to get out.

And not only was it a crock, the powers that be have been participating in systematic child SEXUAL ABUSE for all these years (of the emotional kind, which is every bit as real and traumatic to the child, believe me). And this abuse is perpetuated in every priesthood interview in which a child is asked INAPPROPRIATE, DEEPLY PERSONAL information, every class and lesson manual where we are told our natural urges are evil and shameful, and in the scare tactics our teachers and parents use get us to comply. IT IS A SHAMEFUL MARK on the mormon church, the leaders who participate, and the parents who comply with it. Frankly I am surprised, now that I know what I know, that more parents and priesthood leaders do not take a stand and say "HOLD ON A MINUTE. Something doesn't feel right about me, a man, asking a 12 year old girl if she touches herself - in a room all alone with her, without her mother or even another female to support her. Or better yet, about us asking her at all, because it's NONE OF MY OR THIS CHURCH'S BUSINESS!!!"

One doesn't have to look far to find lasting effects of this type of abuse in these children. Personally, it haunts me to this day, despite my best efforts to put it behind me. I mentioned that I am in a happy relationship, which is true, but in all these years I have never once told this story to another living soul, including my partner. And I should be able to share everything with him, but I am too embarassed and ashamed of these experiences now. So I guess making an anonymous post here is the best I can do. My opinion of my sexuality has been deeply scarred, and I have to continually remind myself that enjoying sexual experiences is normal, natural, and healthy. I am trying very hard to let go of the hurt and anger I have toward the patronizing, demeaning priesthood system and the mormon church, but as most of you who lived through these interviews know, it's hard to do.


Female Perspective

07/27/2006 - by Phoenix Rising

When I read the first posting in this section, the one by the LDS physician, I broke down and began sobbing. Uncontrollably. For about 5 minutes. I thought I had gotten past all of this, but apparently I'm still more hurt than I'd realized.

I am 22 years old and I have been married for two months (to a Nevermormon, thanks to me). I am in the process of writing my letter of resignation to the first presidency right now. I grew up a True Believing Mormon, one of those who was so pious it was disgusting.

I didn't even know that women could masturbate until I was in college and dating a convert (well, he knew it was convert or be dumped, so let's just say it didn't end well) and he asked me if I'd ever done it. Or if I'd ever even SEEN my genitalia.

I didn't even realize until junior high that it had a name. I grew up thinking that boys have a penis and girls have a "private place", and that neither was to ever be touched except by toilet paper. I didn't even know that you are supposed to clean it, or else you'll get yeast infections.

I dreaded going to the gynecologist and went for the first time about a year ago (by that time I was beginning the process of leaving the LDS Church). Apparently I've been masturbating most of my life and didn't know it. I didn't start "really" masturbating until after I broke up with that guy (because he told me he couldn't hack the Mormon thing, and I knew we couldn't marry in the temple), and the whole time I hated it and hated myself, but I couldn't stop.

We used to mess around and stimulate each other (with clothes on, or at least underwear) and I felt so guilty about I that I kept trying to get us to stop, and we kept doing it anyway. I finally made him go with me to see the bishop, who asked probing, private questions. I felt so horrible and ashamed and embarrassed that I made him answer all the questions.

Two weeks later my boyfriend told me he couldn't take the Mormon thing anymore, and I told him it was over. After I broke up with him I used to masturbate while having internet sex with this man who sexually, emotionally, and mentally abused me, all the time still attending church and trying to be a TBM. This man kept me as a virtual slave to his sex drive for nearly two years and I kept coming back to him, I couldn't get myself out.

It wasn't until after I'd decided that maybe the Church wasn't right, maybe they were wrong, that I was able to dig myself out the emotional pit I?d been in for so long. I made a conscious decision to find someone non-abusive to date who would distract me from this man long enough and thoroughly enough that I could break away from his grasp. I?d been dating my (now husband) for several months before I finally eradicated this man from my life.

Despite being faithful for so long, despite doing EVERYthing right (with this exception), I hated myself immensely, and the more I hated my self, the more I ?sinned?, and the worse I felt. This is what the field of psychology terms "learned helplessness."

I stopped taking the sacrament because I felt unworthy. I stopped going to church regularly for the same reason. I'd sit in my room and cry when my roommate was gone and I was alone. Or I would masturbate. I was pretty good at it at first, but I could never quite bring myself to climax. I still can't. I would do it in the shower, and eventually I got to where I would do it even when my roommate was there, and I thought she was asleep.

I hated myself so much that at some point after trying to quit so many times I got to where I wasn?t stimulated by the same things anymore. When my husband and I began dating I had just decided that I wasn't going to be Mormon anymore. I tried lots of things then that I'd restrained myself from as a good molly Mormon, but at that point I had no self esteem and I figured since I would be damned anyway?.why not?

I smoked pot and drank alcohol, smoked a few cigarettes. I drank tea (heaven forbid!) and coffee. I discovered that I don't care much for tea, and now I drink coffee only rarely. I drink alcohol occasionally, and I have no desire to become a smoker of any kind. For all my parents believe I have become an immoral, evil person, I experimented much less than many of my counterpart college friends.

I convinced my husband that we should have sex after dating for less than two months. For all of my sexual experiences, I had never had intercourse before, and I was still trying to rid myself of the demons of the other, abusive man. My non-mormon beau actually wanted to wait until we were married, but he didn't protest too much or too long.

I stopped masturbating completed when we started sleeping together. Even though I had stopped going to church and claimed to no longer be Mormon, I guess after being indoctrinated for so long I can't get past certain hang-ups. Like, he should stimulate me, and I should not interfere. I finally realized that sometimes a little guidance from me helps him out immensely when trying to please me sexually.

However, despite the fact that our sex is now legally sanctioned, therefore approved by my mother, etc., I can't get past my sexual hang-ups. I have trouble becoming aroused, and he, being the wonderful person he is, tries to satisfy me before allowing himself pleasure. He sometimes wears himself out trying to make me orgasm and failing that neither of us ends up succeeding in anything more than a little anaerobic exercise.

And he gets really depressed and thinks that he's a bad husband for not being able to satisfy me, he won't even let me make him happy afterwards because he feels he's failed me.

I try to explain that the problem isn't him, it's me and my years of sexual suppression that started at puberty when I used to imagine every male adult I met naked and hated myself for it and even before that but he doesn?t understand, and he feels like a failure.

THIS is what this church does to people. It ruins them, it makes them think they are worthless and beyond love, it ruins their ability to relate to others, it makes them incapable of healthy sexual expression, and it hurts relationships and families, despite all its claims of being a family loving church. And those are a few of the reasons I am leaving.

I will not allow my (future) children to go through what I experienced, and I will not allow myself to remain enslaved. I truly believe that had I not decided to leave I may have eventually ended up in a psych ward, or worse, killed myself.


Desire To Discharge Little Factory Motivates Local Mormon To Wed by Boyd K Packer

LEHI, UT—Throughout his life, 22-year-old Hyrum Parkin has been a devout Mormon, attending services at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in his hometown of Lehi, regularly participating at the Lehi 37th (YSA) Ward, Lehi Utah Stake. Hyrum recently completed a honorable mission in the Canada Winnipeg Mission in which he ascended to an assistant to the Mission President.

A part-time prep-cook and odd-job yardwork handyman when not serving as a Ward Missionary, the young Parkin has never had much time for socializing with members of the opposite sex. Nevertheless, last week, Parkin announced his intention to marry fellow, Mormon Luann Ruth Harker, also a member of the Lehi 37th (YSA) Ward, whom he met at a church-sponsored Family Home Evening two months ago.

Though his wedding date has yet to be set, Hyrum Parkin is so eager to discharge his little factory that he has already purchased his temple clothes and is waiting patiently at the Mount Timpanogos Utah Temple. Throughout his post-pubescent life, Parkin has also, like all male humans, been gripped by an intense, all-consuming desire to discharge his little factory, but has been unable to do so out of fear of incurring the wrath of God and suffering an eternity of agonizing punishment in the afterlife. Like many young Mormon youth, Parkin was given a pamphlet by his bishop entitled “To Young Men Only” as a Deacon at the age of 12.

Parkin cited his irresistible desire to achieve sexual climax and discharge his little factory without having to go to outer-darkness as the number one factor in his decision to propose marriage.

"I really want to discharge my little factory," he said. "I mean I really, really, really want to really bad."

Parkin quoted Elder Packer:

There is; however, something you should not do. Sometimes a young man does not understand. Perhaps he is encouraged by unwise or unworthy companions to tamper with that factory. He might fondle himself and open that release valve. This you shouldn't do, for if you do that, the little factory will speed up. You will then be tempted again and again to release it. You can quickly be subjected to a habit, one that is not worthy, one that will leave you feeling depressed and feeling guilty. Resist that temptation. Do not be guilty of tampering or playing with this sacred power of creation. Keep it in reserve for the time when it can be righteously employed. 'To Young Men Only' by Boyd K. Packer, General Conference Priesthood Session, October 2, 1976

Living his 22 years inviolate under strict LDS doctrine, Parkin has never discharge his little factory, for to do so outside the holy bonds of temple marriage would mean non-negotiable, eternal punishment upon death.

"I want to go to the Celestial Kingdom," said Parkin, explaining his decision not to engage in premarital ejaculation. "I don’t want to go to Outer-Darkness. I am absolutely terrified of the burning and scorching of my impure, unclean flesh in the Lake of Fire; the prodding and stabbing by pitchforks wielded by demons; and, in particular, the unending, eternal torment in pits of boiling pitch as Satan the Deceiver laughs in sadistic glee."

Burning with a desire to discharge his little factory so overwhelming that it has threatened to dwarf even his love for Christ, Parkin has, ever since puberty, researched the subject at length, discovering "five score and seventeen" different methods by which males can achieve ejaculation. Unfortunately, Parkin said, not one of them is permissible under Mormon doctrine.

"Homosexuality, masturbation, oral-genital contact, frottage, shoe fetishes, barnyard animals, leaning up against a washing machine on spin cycle—I could go on and on," Parkin said. "I would have gladly tried any one of these, because, like I said, I really, really want to discharge my little factory. Regrettably, though, they are all punishable by eternal torment in the demon pits, so it was pretty much either get married or give up on ejaculating completely."

While Parkin is greatly looking forward to marriage and the sweet release of sperm it will bring, he noted that even in holy wedlock, Mormon doctrine limits permissible ejaculation to just one circumstance: sexual congress for the purpose of procreation.

"I'm going to want to start a family pretty much immediately," he said. "If I can get a raise and a second job, I figure I might be able to eventually support a family of as many as six or seven offspring. That means I should hopefully get to discharge his little factory seven times before I die. I know, you're thinking, 'That's not much.' But believe me, it will sure beat the heck out of what I'm doing now, which is not discharging at all."

Parkin does admit to harboring some doubts about his upcoming nuptials. "What if Luann, never having seen a naked man before, is so frightened that she refuses to allow me to discharge my little factory?" he said. "Divorce would be out of the question, and I'd be trapped forever in a non-ejaculatory eternal marriage. It will probably work out okay, though: Once she becomes my wife, I should be able to command her to do whatever I say, and, even if it's against her wishes, it will be her Mormon duty to obey me."

No date has been set for the wedding, but Parkin said he would like it to take place "as soon as humanly possible."

"I have opened my heart and mind to Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father, and I yearn for the righteous power of the Holy Ghost to fill me with holy inspiration. But I also yearn—desperately yearn, yearn with indescribable longing, I mean really, really yearn— discharge my little factory. If it were up to me I would prefer to discharge my little factory right now. This minute. No lie."

Follow up: Parkin's Little Factory Releases Sacred Seed on Wedding Night

LEHI, UT - Hyrum Parkin, the 22 year old handyman anxious to experience intimacy with a member of the opposite sex, finally achieved his goal last night, when he and his new bride Luann Parkin consummated their wedding vows in the Lehi Super 8 hotel, following their temple wedding earlier in the day.

"It was great, everything I always imagined it would be!" proclaimed Parkin. "I am so glad I waited. It would be a shame if I had spoiled this experience. Brother Packer is so wise."

Luann Parkin refused to comment on the wedding night activities, but that didn't stop her new husband from sharing intimate details.

"Brother Packer said when the time comes, our little factory will automatically release the life-giving substance. Holy heck was he right. Let me tell you when that time was," Parkin said with a grin. "Luann went into the bathroom to change into 'something more comfortable.' She came out wearing high heals, thigh-high nylons, a black thong, and nothing else. Holy fudge, her breasts were immaculate! She spun around and I saw her tight buns with the g-string going up her crack. That was all it took. My little factory started humming, and all of my substance was released into my pants. Fortunately, my garments protected the rented tuxedo from getting stained. That saved me a huge cleaning fee. I bear my testimony that the holy garment offers protection to those who faithfully wear it. Anyway, it was the greatest experience of my life, and it didn't even take very long. I changed into new garments, and luckily didn't miss the beginning of '24'."

When aksed if he actually made love to his new bride, Parkin looked confused. "Well, I did release the substance," he said. "Are you telling me there's more?"

Although she refuses to speak of the night, Luann admits that she has "a lot to teach the guy."

Ah! Somebody jerked off.

12/27/2006 - by Koriwhore from Recovery from Mormonism

I walk in to our living room where our family is cleaning up after the Xmas morning gift opening mele and my wife had a little figurine of three angels standing around singing Xmas carols. I asked her if she believed in angels. She said, Of course I do.

I picked up one of its wings that had broken off to see how it could be glued back on. My 17 y.o. son sees that one of the angels wings had broken off and says, "Ah! Somebody jerked off!"

We both looked at him like he was insane for saying something completely random and inappropriate like that. He said, "Every time you jerk off an angel loses its wings!"

DW said, "Does that seem appropriate to you?"

I say, "I gotta admit, it was pretty funny, even though it was inappropriate."

He says, "Hey, it was perfect timing. I couldn't let that one pass me by. If I'd have just yelled out "Somebody Jerked off" completely at random, you guys would have thought I was crazy, but since the angel lost its wings, then it makes perfect sense."

I gotta hand it to the kid, that was pretty effing hillarious.

Missionaries were usually shocked

12/17/2006 - by Former Mission President - SLDrone from Recovery from Mormonism

When I was a mission president, hardly a day went by that I didn't have to endure the tears of another young missionary almost paralyzed by guilt over his inability to stop masturbating. They were usually shocked as I described it as a totally natural and even healthy thing to do on occasion and with reasonable moderation.

As with many other ridiculous notions of the past, the Church has backed off from this subject in the past decade or so.

Straight thoughts and fantasies

12/12/2006 - by Reasonable from Recovery from Mormonism

A gay friend of mine was told not long ago by his bishop that he brought his gay-ness upon himself by masturbating and thinking impure thoughts while doing so.

I guess this means that if my gay friend will think only straight thoughts and fantasies while masturbating - and then repents of having masturbated - he will be both straight and free of the sin of masturbation. . .

what a load of BS!!!

The Great LDS Masturbation Conspiracy

11/27/2005 - by Conspiracy Theorist and others from Recovery from Mormonism

The Mormon Church uses the issue of male masturbation as a way of keeping honest men out of church leadership.

Young men who tell the truth about masturbation don't get called to leadership. Meanwhile, the young men who lie about it are called to leadership. Thus, the liars rise to the top of the church, while those with strong convictions of honesty get filtered out.

This sytems works well for the church, because if a man will lie to raise in the ranks, what's he likely to do when confronted with the Book of Abraham or BoM DNA? Again, he'll lie to support his position.

I'm not sure if this system was set up intentionally, but it's pretty obvious if you've served a mission that this is how the church works.

You may be on to something - by cl2

Liars learn how to lie better and better the more they lie and the bigger the lies get. My husband lied his way through all his interviews, etc., and was on his way to being bishop (and I have no doubt he would have achieved it--although he didn't want it)--but he is so charismatic, but all the while he was having sex with men on a regular basis--and going to church. I've said before that we were definite mormon royalty as long as I was with him. The "front" you put on is what most mormons believe. My husband has many good qualities and he never should have married, but the fact that he was able to fake so many people out in the church is very telling.

This really irritated my "goth" son (who I've talked about on here). The good Mormon teachers my son had at school had an attitude about my son. I always knew that if I had my husband go talk to them, that they'd like my husband so much, they'd lay off my son. AND they ALWAYS DID. It was rather IRONIC.

Lying and denial are essential to top Mormon Leadership, candor is dangerous.

The "Go Along Guy" - by shut me up

The "Go Along Guy", the "Pretense Guy", is exactly what they need the most! Dam it, I think you've got a point!

They are basically filtering out the kind of men who could be a problem later on: Guys who are candid about life and honest with others. And my mission was proof to me. The church taught me how to lie, how to pretend that I "knew" it was true, when I really didn't know.

It's the kind of stuff Boyd K Packer pushes when he says: "The gaining of a testimony is in the bearing of it." Just lie until it no longer feels like you're lying. They need people who go along with that kind of thinking.

Lying and deceit - by Max

I saw the lying and deceit while a missionary in the 70s. Missionaries who were determined to rise to the level of AP or Zone Leader never confessed or acknowledged the practice of masturbation. They knew what they were doing. And the same kind of lying and deception followed them home and into their business dealings.

Those elders who sincerely and honestly felt the need to repent were "held back" from serving in the position of a district leader (in most cases), Zone Leader or AP (in all cases).

I served in the mission office and read the letters of those elders who were nearly suicidal from the guilt associated with masturbation. And, I knew that the president purposefully kept them from leadership positions because of it. For that reason, these guilt-ridden young men labeled themselves as failures and would continue in the cycle of masturbation - guilt - etc.

While at the time I wasn't as understanding (yes, I was caught up in being the shining leader), I would later come to understand the tragedy associated with this cycle of guilt. Those young men, at the height of their hormonal development, made to feel shame and guilt for something that was natural and human. Sad, pathetic and tragic -

I have always hoped they were able escape the tentacles of this guilt-driven church and find some measure of peace.

Regular church interviews - by Jamerica

I think that there is a major point that can be made about regular church interviews creating an environment where members are encouraged to lie on a regular basis. I say this to my shame but as a teenager the morg taught me to be a very proficient lier. I did it to the point were I could look straight into the eyes of my bishop (easy) or father (hard) and say that "I don't jerk off". Which was a bold faced lie as I spanked it several times a day till I left for my mission. I still did(do) it just not every day. As for my companions, I can tell you for a fact that they were doing it as well. They were just lying about it. The point is that the church values conformity even if is only skin deep and superficial not honesty, and the church's standards and norms foster this environment of dishonesty. This can be seen in the business dealings of the members of the church. In short don't do business with a member you will get ripped off.

By their fruits shall you know them!

Orgasm of Privacy on LDS Mission

02/21/2006 - by anonymous

Later, on my mission, I was in an area with a companion I could not stand. The area had been temporarily cut from four to two missionaries, so I had the luxury of a room to myself. And I did not masturbate. I really did not. I was just relieved to have time to myself, away from the bastard I was shackled to. No orgasm on earth could compare with privacy.

Something that good can't be wrong

01/05/2005 - by anonymous

When I was a young girl I felt terribly guilty because I would masturbate all the time. I used to climb poles at the age of ten and would have orgasms, at the time I had no idea what I was doing but boy was it wonderful. I was born a Mormon and my family were pioneers when Joseph Smith founded "The Church", so I attended Mutual, a program for young adults.

Well, I started to find out that my innocent masturbation was a sin. I did not want to stop but I decided at the age of 18 years to go to my bishp and "confess my evil sin." I was terribly embarrassed but knew in my heart I had to confess.

I told the bishop what I was doing and told him I was having "organisms, yes organisms." I did not even know what it was called or how it was spelled.

I was told that for my sin I would need to visit some of the older ladies in my ward for about six months, which I did because that was my punishment for masturbation. Well, I did and tried really hard not to do it again which lasted about six months.

To my horror, when I realized I said "organism" instead of orgasm, I felt really mortified. I never again told the bishp I did that ever again, because I felt that something that good can't be wrong, not matter what "The Church" thought about it.

Elder Packer

(Tune: "Mr. Sandman by the Chordettes" - 12/05/2004 by brainbutter

dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum, dum

Elder Packer, bring me a dream (dum-dum-dum-dum)
Make it the wettest, that I've ever seen (dum-dum-dum-dum)
Please take from me this great temptation (dum-dum-dum-dum)
so I won't give in to mas-tur-bation.
Packer, I'm so horny (dum-dum-dum-dum)
Can't seem to stop my little fact'ry (dum-dum-dum-dum)
I made sure to pay tithing,
Elder Packer, bring me a dream.

dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum, dum

Elder Packer, bring me a dream
I ate a whole pie of banana cream.
I beg of you in the name of Hinkley,
so that I will not have to squeeze my twinkie.
Packer, I tied my hands to the bed,
If there's a fire, I'll sure be dead.
I need to sleep, Book of Mormon I'll read,
Elder Packer, bring me a dream.

dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum, dum

Elder Packer, please make me straight
This self abuse has turned me gay.
After a bath I won't look in the mirror
Only girl I think of is Bette Midler.
My balls, don't make me remove 'em
Give me a burning but not in my bosom
I'm so desp'rate, I've tried everything
Elder Packer, bring me, please, please bring me
Elder Packer, bring me a dream.


And it came to pass that I did burst in upon Elder Hande

11/21/2004 - by Stray Mutt

And it came to pass in the great frozen regions northward beyond the United States that I did partake of something unclean and my gastrointestinal tract was possessed by demons. On the morn, as mine companion did make his ablutions, I was stricken by a fearsome urge to vacate my bowels. Rather than soil myself, I did burst into the bathing chamber and and cast myself upon the throne.

Great was the noise and stench. Great was the surprise of mine companion, Elder Hande, who wast naked. And great was our mutual embarrassment when I did see that Elder Hande was holding mightily to his iron rod.

And it came to pass, after he had covered his nakedness with the garments of the holy priesthood and the uniform of righteousness, yea, even the sanctified conservative tie, he did throw himself upon my mercy, confessing his sins and weaknesses that I might forgive him and aid him in conquering the loathsome practice.

When he had completed his lamentations and supplications, I spake unto him, saying, Brother, thou seekest forgiveness and strength from me, yet, varily, I shouldst seek the same from thee, for I am also unclean. Varily, I knowest not of one Elder who is guiltless in this matter. Yea, even those ordained to lead over us are not without sin. Therefore, set thy burden down and stop smiting thyself over things of little consequence.

And it came to pass that we did never speak of these things again.

Your Problem

11/27/2004 - from Brother Todd

This convert stands before you today filled with pride. A deep down pride that grows every week, everyday & every hour (not-so-much every minute… I require a few minutes to myself for goodness sakes). This pride swells whenever I have the chance to share my testimony with the good brethren (especially Brother Bruce (or Brucie as I have been asked so many times to call him)).

At one time, I led a life of bankrupt morality and it was Brother Bruce that showed me the way to the eternal kingdom. I used to have a problem BUT NO LONGER! I have been able to overcome and wish to mentor others just as Brother Bruce has done for me. I wish for my testimony to be a learning experience to others to NOT repeat my mistakes.

Remember to keep your problem out of your mind at all costs! You do not want Satan to control your mind or your body. When temptation starts to overwhelm you just say out loud STOP IT! and immediately recite a favorite scripture from the BOM (that’s Book of Mormon for you nubies).

If you are by yourself IMMEDIATELY run into a room full of people but don’t associate with people who have the same problem as you. DON’T EVER discuss your problem with others unless of course it is with your mentor. Your mentor will know how to handle things.

If you are in bed and start thinking about your problem you MUST run into the kitchen and immediately start eating but do not eat anything that will remind you of your problem. Any type of sausage is a no-no. Tacos are acceptable only if you have been pneumatically sealed to your spouse in a temple ceremony.

If you are in the shower you MUST immediately get out of the shower, dry yourself off (do not dry yourself too vigorously as this can aggravate the problem), get dressed and go to church even if it is closed… you can hang out in the parking lot. This is my favorite bit of advice since it was a parking lot behind the YMCA where I first met Brother Bruce and felt the power of the priesthood (or was it the Holy Ghost... I keep getting those two confused).

Do not go into the woods by yourself unless God is telling you too, of course. You don’t want to be tempted but you also don’t want to miss out on a chance to find secret hidden scripture and become the next prophet (for goodness sakes).

Brother Bruce is now motioning me to wrap it up… I’ve probably been talking too long because he and his wife look upset. So I will finish this testimony with my favorite quote from Brother Bruce. “Remember, Satan loves a full bladder at bedtime so empty that sucker before retiring for the night and wear hard to open pajamas that don’t bind. Silk pajamas are to die for!”

Although the decor is a bit dated, beyond a shadow of a doubt I know this is the one and only true church. Thank you Heavenly Father!

I didn't lie

04/15/2004 - by E.L. Joe

By the time I was 14 or 15, I'd pretty much had it with the mormon church, so I was pretty open with the bishop. This particular bishop was one of those boot-licking spineless idiots who worshiped me because my grandfather was *gasp* a GENERAL AUTHORITY! I'm sure this numbnuts was afraid to deny me a temple pass to do necroerotic-baptisms. Afraid that the wrath of the entire Quorum of the 70's would be visited upon his head if I appeared as anything but a perfect little mobot.

So our interviews usually went something like this:

Bishop: Do you masturbate?

Joe: Yep. But I've been trying really hard not to.

Bishop: good enough. Have you drank alcohol or used tobacco?

Joe (*reeking of cigarette smoke*): Yeah, but I've been trying really hard not to.

Bishop: I'm glad to see you're putting forth such effort to be a righteous man and priesthood holder. Have you had any sort of improper sexual relations? (funny, because I dated his daughter for a while, and ahem...)

Joe(thinking "I wish"): [wistfully truthful] Nooooo.

Bishop(beaming with delite): Well good Brother E.L. Joe, I see that you're making quite a bit of progress. I'll see you at the temple.

Joe (thinking in his best Butthead(tm) voice "huh huh huh. Dumbass): Thank you Bishop ***.


I can't belive that any boy (and most girls) don't masturbate when they hit puberty. It is in our human instincts to do it. We are designed to be sexual beings. With that said, I think about how there was a boy in my ward who could not become a priest (he was close to being 18) because he masturbated. However, my bishop's son is an elder and I know for a fact that he does a lot more than whack off. Isn't it weird how the son of a poor family doesn't get pushed through the priesthood ranks because he is being honest but the bishop's kid does? Also, it really sucks because I had no problems getting any priesthood positions because I never admitted to doing the dirty to myself. - 02/15/2004 - from Sal I. Mander

When they make you a god, will you care whether your children masturbate?

01/20/2004 - by MySongAngel

Have you ever wondered where the Brethren hath come up with this crap? I tried picturing myself as a kind, loving Goddess with billions of kids running around on my own little world. Now, if I really loved them as much as Elohim is supposed to love us, I wouldn't want them killing each other. I wouldn't want them hurting each other. And I'd like a little respect, too, I guess. But I really can't say that I'd be angry when they masturbated. I can't fathom looking down on them and their evil coffee drinks and weeping. I really wouldn't care if they wanted to wear two earrings. I guess if they went out partying and drinking to excess, I'd be concerned, but having a drink of wine over dinner wouldn't kindle my rage. If I said it was okay to go shopping six days of the week, I'd have to be psycho to tell them not to do it on the seventh day. And what am I going to do with their money? Do TBMs (True Believing Mormons) ever stop and go "WTF? Why did you give us stuff we're not supposed to use?" Anyway, just a rambling thought. I think that the mormon god is pretty superficial and mean.

I also heard it talked about as "self-abuse" in the church. I was told it was dirty and wrong, therefore all through my teen years I was completely abstinant. I never dated and was very reserved in my youth. I feel that if I would have been exploring my sexual feelings during my puberty and teen years that I would have been more confident with myself and my sexuality and I could have not been so shy towards the opposite sex and maybe would have gotten more then one date in high school. - 12/30/2003 - from wellsharp_too

Every time I come home from church meetings I run to my room and imagine that those I was just at meeting with are doing the same thing and they probably are. - 10/19/2003 - Boyd

I've been M-Wording since before I was 8. I did it all through my teen years, all through my mission, and I still do it today. - 10/16/2003 - from zach_curious

I feel bad for all the 17 yr old boys who are feeling like they are the "only one" in the ward masturbating... I buddies did..everyone I talk to on the internet dad did..I know I saw him...and he was a Bishop... It is a damn shame that so many boys are being tortured over something that every man has done since time the histories.. IT IS TIME TO STOP THE MADNESS..... - 06/24/2003 - anon

I am 17 year old guy in the church that hasn't been able to become a priest yet. I have been "m" since i was 10. is it really true that some missionaries do it and a lot of other people to. cause i feel like im the only bad one out of everyone in my's been 3 days since i've talked with my bishop and i have not "m" since so should i try not to or should i give in? - 06/21/2003 - anon
Editor's note: The Salamander does not offically offer sex advice, especially to minors. If you are really age 17, the Salamander suggests that you discuss all personal concerns with your parents or guardians.

You guessed it...another masturbating Mormon checks in...and where did I learn to masturbate?

At scout camp...I was Star scout he was Eagle scout and I had the opportunity to tent with him. In the middle of the nite I felt him jerking and I said what's doing on? And he said he was putting salve on his heat rash and could not reach all the way underside so I being a good scout volunteered my services and one thing led to another. He became a mish and so did I and I wonder if he ever stopped..I know I never did. - 06/04/2003 - from rubbing two sticks together to create fire

Click the image to see how the White House has taken on the cause of Boyd K Packer to stamp out masturbation. - 05/25/2003 - submitted by Professor Y

I too went to and and went to Utah rooms and slc have been meeting other RM's and we call each other at nite on our cell phones usually jerk off telling about our experiences on our mission..for I too learned how to masturbate before I left for mission and could not stop. - 05/17/2003 - anon

well here is a newsflash, I learned how to masturbate on my mission. my companion and I did more than spread the word..we spread our seed all over the apt. shower, and back porch at night in the dark. We just came to the conclusion that every red blooded male has to masturbate.. it has been done for since time began by all we gave in to it. and I will never regret it. married now...i still do it... I could not live without my palm..both palms I love it I love it I love it even do it at general there - 05/09/2003 - anon

I am leaving soon for a mission. And I masturbate. Im not a fanatic but it is just part of my life. In the last couple of years, (to tell the truth since I was a little kid) I have had some curiosity towards homosexuality. I dont think of guys bums and all that nonsense, I am just attracted to guys, and girls. There is a girl I want to come back and marry when I get back from my mission, but at the same time I think some of the hottest guys I have ever seen are in my YSA program. It drives me crazy, and the thing I am most terrified about is the fact that I am about to spend two years of my life along with young men in their primes. No doubt I will become attracted to some of my companions, but I will continue to live the life I live now. One of secrets, guilt and strong religious values. - 05/02/2003 - anon

I am not sure how many missionaries are masturbators on the mission but I will tell you this...when I go on and hit the Utah chat rooms...I have met many many RM's who are now married and frustrated so like me they spend the nite on chatlines and we end up giving each other our cell phone numbers and we masturbate together on the phone sitting in our dens while our wives are sound asleep in the the bedroom... it has been comforting to meet other lds this way. And it works...believe me it works. - 04/12/2003 - anon

I was 14 when I figured out

03/28/2003 - by t

I was 14 when I figured out what a bunch of lies, manipulation and b.s. the moron religion was based on. Being Salt Lake City 'blue blood' created more than my fair share of headaches for the priesthood and elders. It didn't help that I was an incredibly attractive young woman who learned how to manipulate the 'bishopric' at 16 by 'confessing' all about my masturbation problem. I even masturbated in front of a bishop at 16! To this day, I credit the very human and natural desire to touch ourselves and be sexual as the root to becoming free of the Mormon cult. I masturbate all the time, 4-6 times a week. :-)

Stains on Temple Shield

03/09/2003 - by Canigetafu

If I posted every wanker story I had, I'd fill up the internet!

I'll post my two favs:

First one - I was around 14-15 years old and had a crush on a Priest in my ward. Man, I was always at his side whenever I could be. Once we went to do baptisms for the dead in the Seattle temple. I positioned myself so as to be right next to him (knowing that I might get a peek in the shower afterward). Sure enough, just after I did the baptisms, he was in the shower. The temple gives you a shield thing to waltz around in & mine had a bump. I barely made it back to my locker without getting caught. Wank. Here's your shield - sorry 'bout the stain - you might want to pre-treat that.

Second one - I'm not going to get into details here to protect the 'innocent'. I had a companion on my mission that would jack me off quite often. What great memories. I felt the spirit. A lot.

M&M - Masturbating Missionaries

02/28/2003 - by anon

Well my story is probably the most unbelievable but you can belive it because I have no reason whatever to lie and am no longer a mo so what makes the difference?

My mission was partly in Youngstown Ohio. My companion and I shared an attic apartment in an very nice home of a member. I spent the first three months without jerking off and found that my balls were so black and blue and sore that I could hardly walk. I knew I had to relieve this pressure and so I would wait until my companion was asleep in the twin bed across the room from me.

I looked forward to my nites alone pleasuring myself, feeling like I was truly experiencing celestial glory each time I came. I had the habit of jerking with my eyes closed for some reason. Like that blocked out reality.

One nite as I was stroking I almost jumped three feet out of bed. My companion got up. I did not hear him and he found his way in the moonlite coming thru the little window and cupped his hand around my balls as I was stroking. He scared me to death. I said, "What the...???" and he whispered that he had been watching me cum every nite and could not stand it any longer and wanted to help.

Needless to say he climbed in bed with me. We ended up in the sixty nine position and did that every nite there after until he was sent on to a new area. We ended up back home and living in the same city. We continued our times together after we married. He is still in Utah. I am not. He is still in the church with a very nice job in a very big building near Temple Square. And now you know the rest of the story. Well almost


One time while serving as a missionary I found a sexxy g-string in the laundry room at our apartment on P-Day. I told my companion I had to use the bathroom, which I did in a way. I went into the bathroom and sniffed and licked the g-string while I masturbated. - 02/13/2003 - anon

Touching yourself - true story from a Mormon deacon (ME)

01/26/2003 - by Deconstructor

TLC Wrote:
"Then they got more particular and said that I couldn't touch myself "down there." Well, how the hell am I supposed to get my socks on without touching myself "down there?" Well, then they decided to go and get personal about the whole damn thing and told me I wasn't supposed to touch my tallywhacker. I asked my mom what a tallywhacker was and she told me it was that thing I wasn't supposed to touch."

That reminds me of an experience with church leaders back when I was a kid in the deacons quorum.

There we were - all twelve-year-old boys in the deacons class with this nazi Mormon deacons advisor/teacher. In preparation for handing out Packer's "For Young Men Only" pamphlet, the teacher gave us a fire-and-brimstone lecture on morality.

Only problem was, most of us had just turned twelve and the five of us were very naieve. Most of us hadn't even entered puberty yet. The scene was tremendous!

At one point during the lesson, the teacher got all red-faced, pointed his finger at us and spoke as seriosuly and as sternly as possible, "NEVER, men," "NEVER, EVER, MASTURBATE!"

None of us had heard that word before. The teacher was taken back by our blank stares and he paused. Suddenly, the kid next to me asked "what does masturbate mean?"

Then the teacher, flushed with anger, blasted back, "Playing with yourself!" The tension in the air was so think you could cut it with a knife.

After a brief pause and more blank looks, another boy responded, "What's so wrong about playing with yourself?" (Of course, the boy wasn't thinking of sexual play.)

The teacher barked back, "I mean don't play with your penis, EVER!"

Then another kid, the REALLY naieve one, asked "What's a penis?"

Then the rest of us started laughing out loud, which really pissed off the teacher. At least some of us knew what a penis was.

I can laugh about it now, but all of us left that class feeling like pieces of shit and with Boyd's pamphlett in hand.

Thus began our Mormon teenage sexual guilt complexes...

Bishop Stimulates Masturbation in Swimming Pool

01/23/2003 - by Waterlulu

Once when I confessed to a Bishop that I had masturbated he told me stories of others who had. I particularly remember one about a girl who he said would position herself in from of a jet in her father's swimming pool. She didn't feel like it was masturbating because she didn't user her hands. Of course not long after that I was in a pool and guess what I did.

Doctor Orders Masturbation For Faithful LDS Man

11/25/2002 - by anon

Wow, I am a Mormon, and I thought the church gave up this question. I had no idea that they were still staunch on this topic. I have two doctors that have both told me to masturbate or I will suffer serious prostate problems with my condition. I wonder if the church knew (I never bring it up and neither do they) if they would take away my reccommend. I had hoped they had seen the fallacy of this. There is no biblical reference to support them on this. Genesis 38 is not about masturbation, it is about refusing to give his brothers wife a child... I thought someone would have figured it out... I did whenI was a teenager. Yet the guilt I felt from the probing interviews still racks me today, even with my Dr. telling me to and I am a married adult and we both enjoy it.
Had something like this occur when I was the Bishop. A member was told to masturbate by his doctor for a similar reason. My advice? "For heaven's sake go ahead. I'll take the hit in there hereafter on this one." - 11/25/2002 - sonoflds


HI this is Izaak Epland I like your stories. I am a gay kid, I use diapers to masturbate and tampons and I really enjoy it. MASTURBATION is the best. - 11/06/2002 - Izaak

Dial 'M' for ...

04/14/2002 - by Elder Barry Wyon

"Coming" Soon
Starring: Mark Petersen, Boyd Packer Special appearance by SATAN

Over-obsessed tycoons wage multigenerational struggle to control "little factory"

Soundtrack includes hits by The Temptations, Band of The Hand, George Michael (& Whack), M-Sync

M Word Has Resurfaced

04/14/2002 - by anon

I read with great interest all the stories about masturbation. I love the Church with all my heart. BUT this has been such a hard issue (No pun intended) for me for many years. I have lied over and over again to priesthood leaders on this issue. I love to do "it" and always have. Now that I am a divorced single adult male the "m" word has resurfaced in many priesthood interviews.

I decided to come (no pun attended again) with my Bishop on this issue. It has been 9 years since my divorce and I have not had sex in all of that time. It has been masturbation that has kept me from having sex outside of marraige. My Bishop has since taken my recommend away from me until I repent of this sin. I look at him with his 7 kids and wonder what kind of restraint he has and that maybe he should take up masturbation.

I'm A Good, Moral and Decent Person

11/04/2001 - anon

I believe that masturbation is a perfectly healthy and has many benefits. One of the main reasons I left the church was its stance on masturbation. don't get me wrong. I'm not a masturbation-addict. however, as a pre-adolescent, I did my fair share of exploring my body.

My well-meaning mother, in an attempt to keep me pure and innocent for as long as possible, didnt explain sex to me until I was nearly 12. No one ever explained masturbation to me, so I didn't exactly know what I was doing. I certainly didn't know it was wrong until it was brought up during one of those hideous join young men and women chastity lessons. Of course, as a good little Molly Mormon, I was filled with guilt and remorse. I actually made myself physically ill and finally after almost 2 years, I went to the bishop and confessed that I had done something "bad" but that I no longer did it and was sorry. I never explained what that "bad" thing was. That would have been way too embarrassing. what 13 year old wants to admit to having masturbated to a 40 year old man!? Especially one who knows your parents and is the father of one of your friends.

I finally came to my senses and realised the church was full of it, at least on the masturbation issue. I'm 18 now and my experience with the church's stance on masturbation has left my psyche scarred and my sexuality grossly retarded. I'm happier now, however, because I finally feel like im a good, moral, and decent person even if I do touch myself occasionally.

Twisted Views on Female Sexuality

10/11/2001 - anon

The Mormon church's policy regarding masturbation has completely destroyed my sex life.?I would give anything to be able to go back and tell myself as a little girl that it was okay to masturbate.

I started at 4-5 years of age and thought it was the most wonderful discovery in the world.?Being such a small child I didn't know it was "shameful", so I didn't try to hide it from my parents.?Of course, when they caught me, I got a very serious lecture about how evil it was.

For the next 15+ years, I fought against my body's desire for sexual release.?I wanted desperately to be a "good" and "pure" Mormon girl.?I did everything possible to keep from wanting to masturbate, but I could never overcome my "problem".?I thought I was weak, full of sin, and had no self-control when really, I just happen to have a very high sex drive.?So it was a constant battle.?I never tried so hard at anything as trying not to masturbate (and I am a perfectionist, so that's saying a lot).

Eventually I destroyed any kind of connection I once had with my body.?I developed such an aversion to my own genitals that I was unable to even insert a tampon (when that time came).?I never ever looked at my own genitals.?I never touched anywhere near there.?I developed very unnatural and detrimental ways of getting sexual stimulation without using my hands.?In short, I ended up a very sexually twisted and frustrated person with more guilt hanging around me than any person should ever have to feel.?

When I finally discovered that the Church's position on masturbation was dead wrong, I felt a huge relief.?I started freely masturbating and enjoying it.?But I learned something.?Years and years of sexual repression don't just go away.?I still have never had an orgasm (unless I had one at age 4, I can't remember).?I've tried everything I think a person can try, but nothing works, and I've been trying for a long time.?I have a loving, caring husband who does all he can to help me.?Still, I have yet to attain that kind of sexual fulfillment, and it's all because I believed so much in the Church and it's twisted views on sexuality, especially female sexuality.

Trouble With Masturbation

07/16/2001 - Candy

My story concerns an interview by a bishop several years ago. When he asked me if I had a "problem" with masturbation, I said "No, I have NO problems with it whatsoever..." HOWEVER, if he'd looked into my mind, he would've seen/heard me say "No, bishop, I have NO problems with masturbation. I do it frequently and enjoy the hell out of it. I have multiple orgasms and have my techniques down extremely WELL! As a matter of fact, if you run across anyone who has problems with it, please give them my phone number and have them call me and I'll do my BEST to help them with their problems!" If only I'd had the nerve to say just that very thing... I'm out of the church now, and can't even believe I once thought ANYONE had a right to ask me such a personal thing... You know what I think?? I think the bishops that ask the most embarrassing questions just do it so they can go back home later and jerk off while thinking of the answers...

Willie Wanker's Prophetic Poetry

06/20/2001 - anon

I used to home teach a 47 year old single man, a gentle, kind, simple soul, who has a Morg-induced major hangup about the Mword. The poor guy wouldn't even ask for a temple recommend. He was deathly afraid that the temple workers' "powers of discernment" would tell them if he had enjoyed a wet dream too much, and therefore wasn't "worthy" to be in the temple. The Bad Bard of Avon penned Sonnet #121 to such folly:

Will's Words


'Tis better to be vile than vile esteemed,

I'd rather be myself, than a damn hypocrite, if it came to a choice of whether or not to enjoy my "self"

When not to be receives reproach of being,

And the just pleasure lost, which is so deemed

What we (all of us) enjoy is just (OK), but deemed vile when we're "caught in the act."

Not by our feeling, but by others' seeing.

For why should others' false adulterate eyes

Honestly, whose business is it whether I wake up with a woody?

Give salutation to my sportive blood?

Or on my frailties why are frailer spies

I'm frail, we're all frail. "Will" here refers to self-determination.

Which in their wills count bad what I think good?

No, I am that I am, and they that level

Purposefully blasphemes Exodus 3:14, implying that the act of self-determination is God-given.

At my abuses reckon up their own;

"Reckon" means recollect, or recall

I may be straight though they themselves be bevel

"Bevel" means crooked

By their rank thoughts my deeds must not be shown.

According to them, my deeds are vile

Unless this general evil they maintain:

But all men are wankers and hypocrites if they lie about it. Being a wanker never kept anybody from GA-hood.

All men are bad and in their badness reign.

Many in the gay-community embrace this sonnet as Will's justification for homoerotic indulgences. Harold Bloom discusses this at great length (How to read and why, pp 110-112), and concludes that Will is purposely vague here. By the powers of onanistic discernment vested in me by my Y chromosommim, it's clear as day that Will was a Wanker. The Elizabethan-Jacobean attitude towards the Mword was identical to that of the Morg-it's vile, it's a frailty, it's a general evil, it's self-abuse. How many centuries old does that make the sentiment in Packer's pamphlet "For Young Men Only"?

According to Bloom, the "I" of Shakespeare's sonnets is Will himself. Bloom thus holds out #121 as the acme of Will's balance between self-alienation and self-affirmation. Indeed, Will seems to be saying "all men are wankers, and are damn hypocrites if they say otherwise."

Young Meat Whacker

06/19/2001 - Poisein Pen

There once was a young meat whacker
Who worked for a grumpy meat packer
Said the grumpy old dude
"To the meat don't be rude"
So he keeps it real clean in the shower

Scrubbing That Tent Pole

06/12/2001 - by Onanamous
I remember Boyd KKK Packer's bullshit pamphlet about the "factory."

I remember Mark Peterson's bullshit pamphlet counseling me to tie a hand to the bed with a necktie if I had the habit of waking up in the middle of a wet dream that wasn't quite finished.

Unfortunately, I was never lucky enough to enjoy a wet dream.?Plenty of tentpole action though.

My mission president must have gotten tired of me "confessing" to him.?I finally concluded that it's an appetite just like food or other pleasures--something to enjoy in moderation.?Now that I have sons, that's what I tell them.?Don't get hung up about it, and don't make extra laundry for your mom.?Sure, porno is bad because it degrades women.?And if you're trying to stay focused on a spiritual plane, the images that stay in your head can be distracting.?There's also an escalating titillation?factor that requires more and more explicitness in order to get you aroused.?

My dad counseled the following replies to nosy bishop questions:

Masturbation??What's that?

No, but I wash it real good.

Holy Ghost Causes Men To Masturbate?

05/07/2001 - by Tim Weedn OK, we all know that the 'big dogs' in Mormonism are about as horny a bunch of little devils as you'll ever find. Whether it be a prophet, a God, or just some little Elder's Quorum president, these guys have only one purpose in mind. Making it to the Celestial Kink-dom in order to get laid - A LOT!
05/07/2001 - by Tim Weedn

Now, the Holy Ghost is one of the top three 'dogs' in Mormonism. My take is that he's no different than any other Mormon male. Why is it then that this guy ISN'T getting laid?

It has been suggested by Mormon authorities that the reason women can't hold the priesthood is because they might accidently be impregnated by the Holy Ghost. Given the HG's history, I don't think it would be an accident at all, but rather a release from eons of pent up sexual frustration!

Check it out: The Holy Ghost practices celebacy for centuries because he's been led to believe that he'll get his shot with the virgin Mary and it will all be worth it. But at the last minute, Elohim (or Adam, or whoever) says that he'll take care of fine-ass Mary, hisself!

The HG is given honorable mention for the act in the Bible, but this obviously will not do. This, coupled with the mandate that he cannot enter any woman's body, causes the 'Ghost' to become rather creative in order to relieve his sexual tension.

From that day on, whenever worthy Mormon men receive the priesthood the traditional burning in the bosom takes place. But later on they also receive a generous burning in the loins. With the Gospel in hand (so to speak) priesthood holders 'well up inside' then spew forth the spirit in abundance!

Hey, I know it sounds sick, but give the guy a break! ... Remember its all he's got and he'll have to live with it throughout eternity!

This is the Gospel according to Timothy ... Emma's not here? ... Guess its time for me to move on to the next level of the priesthood!

Comment Section

People on this website seem to have the impression that the church is somehow obsessed with masturbation and sexual purity. When in reality I think all of you people seem to be way too obsessed with this subjects. A lot of your stories are tragic. Yes, a lot of your leaders and parents did things that they should not have the explain things the way they should not have. They even said things that weren't true. I am LDS I have struggled with masturbation but no one has ever told me any of these things, that I Will be damned for all eternity. Yes fornication and adultery are great sins. Adultery is a very serious Sin, the only two worst ones are murder and denying Christ. But masturbation is not that big of a deal with in the church. The church authorities understand that young man struggled with this and they help us counsel through it. They understand that we have human instincts, something that the church has always taught me is that we are not perfect we all sin every day. If one truly studies the doctrine of the church, which is really not that hard to understand, they will come to understand that the church councils against masturbation because the spirit is not with us when we do it. Young men and women can even serve missions while struggling with this problem. So long as they are being honest with their leaders and trying their best and repenting each time they do. I know very well how difficult this problem can be. As I said before I struggle with it, but I have never felt alone, or like I'm going to hell for it, Or like my leaders think I'm disgusting for it. Many of my best friends are missionaries Who I met while being converted. I am still great friends with them and many of them have struggled with this and they do not feel alone or hated or like they are terrible people. If you serve a mission with doubts you should have not gone on the mission before truly understanding the doctrine. Missionaries are not alone they have their leaders, their friends, who are other missionaries, and most importantly, they have the Lord. Our heavenly father knows how hard it is to control those strong feelings and emotions. He gave us these powerful feelings because it is part of his plan for us to want to procreate and bond as husbands and wives. Sexual intimacy is a very beautiful thing. It is a very sacred act, and that is why heavenly father only wants us to use it when we are married. Sex between a husband and wife is not only for procreation it is for affection, to express love towards one another. Married couples are free t engage in what ever sexual activities they desire so long as it is consensual with both partners and does not cause them to be unfaithful towards each other. I used to masturbate without knowing the doctrine of the church and I honestly always felt guilt, even if it was just a little. Controlling those powerful feelings and emotions has helped me have better self-control, have better focus, and learn more about my spiritual side. But, most importantly it has help me grow closer to my heavenly father. The most important commandment that Christ gave us was to love our God and to love those around us as we would love ourselves. By following this commandment we can live in harmony with all the others. And we can know what truly is important. Masturbation is just a simple challenge of life. The church definitely spends time on far more important topics than this. We should focus on what we do right and not what we do wrong. We should pray with full open minds and full open hearts before making judgments and a Sumption's. We should trust our profit because if we are true members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints we should know that the profit receives revelation from God. We must remember that the doctrine given to us by our Lord is perfect, The people are not perfect. There will always be those who lie and do wrong things with in the church. But that is why we should always pray with a full open mind and heart to our heavenly father. I am proud to say that I don't masturbate and I live up perfectly healthy normal lifestyle. My body regulates itself and I plan on being sealed and married to a person I love someday. But, I am far more proud to say that have a strong testimony that the Lord lives and loves me. I am far more proud to say that I have wonderful friends and family members who I love. I am far more proud to say many many other things. There is so much more to life than this. My suggestion to all of you people, is to focus on positive things rather than negative things, To speak of positive experiences rather than negative ones. To focus on something better to do with your time then to falsely accuse the religion and believes of others. I know this church is true I know it was established by Jesus christ, our Savior and Redeemer. I know he lives and loves us and wants only the best for us. And I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen - 02/27/2014


WOW, very interesting. Things have changed so much. I was involved with that for years but i stopped becasue when i started looking at pornography and being more violent and wanted to chase women all the time and all i did was wanted to sleep with every girl i could, thats when i figured it was time for me to stop. So i thought about it and figured something out. The church warns us becasue they know what it can cause and do to certain people. some guys and girls can do that with out any problems at all but others ended up raping people like my sisters best friend and also kids in our area becasue they have no self control. it all boils down to self control so why start something if you dont know you can handle it. the term "self abuse" is referring to the long term effects such as prison becasue you raped a child or death penalty becasue you raped and killed a child or young girl. Mental illness becasue you have to deal with the feelings that you have becasue you raped someone. Not every one is like YOU and has good self control. i didnt learn what it was till i was 12. i felt bad becasue they told me it leads to porn and other stuff and i was all ready envolved with that. After watching my friend go to jail becasue of what he did to a girl, i figured it was a good time to stop. There is nothing wrong with learning who you are and what your body is for. thats what growing up is all about. As a parent tell your kids what there bodies are for and that sex is fun becasue its with someone you love. Be honost and open about it. Do your kids a favor and tell them what your parents never told you. Mormons are not the only ones who believe in abstinence before marriage. - 03/19/2008 - LT


The marvels of Mormom masturbation! It seems to me the preoccupation of Momon beliefs with masturbation must account for the pure joy and relief young (and old) Mormom men feel from practicing it. Mainstream Protestants have been denied this opportunity because of the openess and honesty most of that faith have come to demonstrate by their frankness and acceptance of a perfectly normal biological function of life. Why take this guilt, shame and heightened awareness of "getting away with something" from the Mormons. It must be a great race between the Mormoms and the Catholics as to who will be more neurotic and fixated. When will humans ever begin to understand a close direct relationship with God and nature without all the historic intervention of dillusional humans who insist on imortalizing themselves with inventive "teachings"? - 07/23/2006 - Dick


Masturbation and being gay were two issues that really messed me up growing up in the church, at least by the time I hit my teens. I can't say that I was really all that defiant, but I wasn't very good at trying to not masturbate. There were a few times, however, where I would get done, and I'd just think "how do ya like that, Jesus? HA!" But usually, almost immediately afterwords, I would just be overwhelmed with guilt. I am so glad that I got out before I went on a mission. - 03/28/2007 - Christopher Olsen


You may believe this one or not as you wish, BUT I had a Mormon friend who felt that as long as she imagined that she was having sex with either her "soon to be eternal companion she hadn't met yet", and/or Jesus, when she masturbated, it was not a sin. And now I sit and wonder things like: what about if you're imagining that it's Joseph Smith or Brigham Young (as if Jesus weren't bad enough!)....? I wonder what Bishop told her, I guess if you're a guy, and you imagine that you're having sex with...I dunno, Mary Magdaline (or Jesus...) that it's okay? - 10/11/2000 - R. T. P


Re: Steps in Overcoming Masturbation By Mark E. Petersen, Council of the 12 Apostles:


hmmmm. What about sitting down and writing a whole book about it? Sounds like he's the one with the problem to me! - 08/22/2000 - Susannah M


Why discuss the topic of masturbation with 9 and 10 year olds? I had an old primary teacher (he's now the branch president) who gave us a lesson warning of the dangers of masturbation. I remember how comical it sounded, I had no idea how one would go about "mocking the baby-making process" with my "weiner" as I called it at that time. I also remember him telling us that he had the same talk with his daughter, because girls "have their methods too". The church is so obsessed with controlling its youth that they fail to give them any real spiritual uplifting. - 4/10/2000 - anon


I made it my whole mission without masterbating. Instead, I'd go to the toilet, just to urinate and semen would come out. Masturbation un-natural? My ass! -

04/07/2000 - anon


Every Sperm Is Sacred

03/28/2000 - Byron G. quoting Monty Python song

There are Jews in the world, there are Buddhists,
there are Hindus and Mormons and then
there are those that follow Mohammed -but-
I've never been one of them.

I am a Roman Catholic
and have been since before I was born,
and the one thing they say about Catholics is
they'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six-footer.
You don't have to have a great brain.
You don't have to have any clothes on, you're
a Catholic the moment dad came


Every sperm is sacred,
every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate. (2x)
Let the heathens spill theirs,
on the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
each sperm that can't be found.
Every sperm is wanted,
every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed,
in your neighborhood.
Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
spill theirs just anywhere
but God loves those who treat their
semen with more care.

(misc choruses)

Every sperm is useful,
every sperm is fine.
God needs everybodies,
mine, and mine, and mine.
Let the pagans spill theirs
on mountain hill and plain.
God shall strike them down for
each sperm that's spilled in vain.


Shaming masturbation is a great way to control female sexuality. If a girl/woman never masturbates, she may never know how to teach someone else to please her. Great way to keep women from being whole people! -

03/28/2000 - anon


One of our ward Scout troop's favorite contest was called "JACK-OFF." Most of our leaders would have probably put a stop to it, if they caught us, but a couple of them didn't seem to mind and we knew who they were. The contest would begin late at night while we huddled in our tents by flashlight over purloined playboy magazines and discussed profound questions like why do some girls stuff cotton in their bra. Suddenly one of the older boys would shout the word JACK-OFF. That was the signal to immediately scramble out to the campfire, yank down the pants and start to "choke your chicken" like mad. The first one to burn his seed in the fire won. I swear some of those boys could do it in under 5 seconds. -

03/05/2000 - anon


I remember being at Scout Camp - maybe 15 years old, and Vaughn J. Featherstone stopped by scout camp along with other GA's, good ole' Vaughn told us little boys about the evils of masturbation! He said that if a boy masturbates he won't have hair on his chest and legs - he won't be a real man . This little discourse went on for about 15-20 minutes with him saying one ridiculous thing after another. I still think about the absurdity of that ideology, the guilt they instill at such a young age, and it just astounds me to this day. I'm so glad to be away from Utah and that wacky ideology! 02/23/2000 - Glenn


I feel sorry for those who apparently got such a grilling over the subject. It was hinted to me by my then-Bishop (in the 70's) that sins involving only ones-self and the Lord need only be confessed between the sinner and the Lord. Of course it could have been that he had heard this type of confession so many times before that he wished to hear it no more. At any rate, it seems so much better his way then the current "Mormon Inquisition" -

02/09/2000 - anon


I have an ever-inquiring mind, so I always asked questions when I was told something was "wrong". When my curiosity led me to look more into the church's reasoning for masturbation being a sin, I was told it was wrong because the habit would eventually lead to an illicit sex act. I suppose any women in the church being found to have actually experienced an orgasm was a gross iniquity and must not be endorsed. Ironically enough, the only way I was able to maintain my virginity before marraige was through the act of "self-abuse". -

01/26/2000 - anon


When I started my mission, I wanted to be the best elder ever and one of my goals was "not to do it", because I wanted all those bleesings and baptisms, etc. Well, it didn't last very long, but eventually I just learned to live with the supposed "guilt" and went about my business as usual. I'm sure it was a big issue, otherwise the MPress would have not asked about it on every interview. I'm sure that aside from those who actually were stupid enough to admit it to him, the rest of us just lied about it. - 1/22/2000 - RM - from recovery bbs


One of the best things about not raising boys in the church is this business about adults asking boys about masturbation every six months, and what it does to the boy.

I was the very very gullible type and was practically suicidal, thinking of doing the biblical "cutting the offending member off" or whatever. F'ing (flipping)(I don't swear! really) stupid books like M. of Forgivness has sex sins labled "not as heinous as murder....." Let me just say that these stupid leaders don't realize how sincere some of these poor members are.

Yes, I would be the one giving the blood transfusion that understood I would die by giving blood---you remember that story? Did you think nobody is that dumb?

Anyway, I made through my mission praying for wet dreams (that NEVER came through) and I only jerked off or rather rubbed against the shower wall(I didn't touch myself--it shouldn't count, but knew and God knew it and I couldn't lie....say...what was JS doing in that grove all alone.....) I had to go to the Mission Pres. immediatly so as to get forgivness so the HG could still be with me, so I would still be able to find the pure in heart waiting patiently for the Gospel. - 01/22/2000 - Neil from recovery bbs


Most TBM (True Believing Mormon) friends I've asked about this always profess to having never had a problem and try to act disgusted that you could even think of such a thing. The art of lying is well-honed skill in the church.

For your honesty, I'll reward you with a mission story (I know, I know, but stick around anyway, I promise I won't show slides). One of my companions, whom I did not like, but actually felt sorry for after this incident, NEVER, had wet dreams. For some reason he just couldn't have them. He was going absolutely insane, so he went to a doctor and told him his problem about not having wet dreams. The doctor told him to go home and jack off (seems obvious now). This companion then went to the mission prez and asked for permission to jack off. The prez said no. The companion finally decided it would be easier to consciously sin and then repent than continue such torment. He proceeded to "solve" the problem in misery and self-hatred. I laugh (and cry within) about this now (especially the scene of him asking permission to masturbate), but it was incredibly serious at the time. - 01/22/2000 - Zoobie - from recovery bbs


One of my seminary teachers, while talking about the evils of self-abuse, began expounding on how "secret acts would be revealed." He asked us to imagine Judgement Day. There exists a giant ampitheater, big enough to hold everyone who had ever lived. In front, where everyone could see, was a giant movie screen. Your life is on that movie screen. Not just your visible life, but every sinful thought would be viewed by all the people who (once) thought highly of you. As you hang your head in shame, the world would watch you masturbate. Then again. And again. Every time.

By this time, my face was bright red. So now everyone knew. And I knew they knew. It was a week before I could look anyone in the eye.

You know, I liked that teacher. He was a really great, kind guy. But when I think about that particular class, I seriously consider looking him up, and beating the crap out of him.

On a similar note. My seminary teacher my Junior year in H.S. told me that you are responsible for what you dream about in wet dreams. (Talk about psychological torture--my dreams weren't exactly temple-worthy at the time). I guess each wet dream had to begin with a temple marriage scene before the action could begin.---Thank God I'm out, or on my way out at least. - 01/22/2000 - Onandagus - from recovery bbs


Although I tried very hard not to abuse (how victorian) myself on my mission, I failed. My mission president knew about it and eventually, just stopped asking me once he realized he was fighting a losing battle with my attitude. - 01/22/2000 - Brad from recovery bbs


I was so engrossed in the spirit, that I lost all desire. I think I had the ability, like football players, to fire myself up for the work. My naive nature helped allow this to happen. (Not many football players masturbate during the game) Fortunately, this attitude made my mission enjoyable.

Of course, I masturbated before my mission, and it took me a few months afterward to get going again, when I was exposed to Playboy magazines everywhere in the lumber mill I had a summer job in.

I had a companion confess to me once, and I was speechless. I think I mumbled that maybe he shouldn't do it. I saw him last year (18 years after the mission), and unfortunately that memory came back to me. So my advice is to never confess your masturbation or that image will forever be imprinted on the mind of the one you tell. Of course, my wife now knows I do it, and I don't mind letting her have the image. - 01/22/2000 - another RM - from recovery bbs


When I was in the MTC, a teacher actually told us that the shower drains were fitted with special filters that would trap semen. When maintenance cleaned, they checked these filters and would report the floor, and which wing the offending semen came from. Thus, MTC branch presidents could always know which "areas" were problems.

I didn't believe it then, because I just figured that with the public nature of MTC showers, who would be brave enough to do it in the shower. Also, how did they catch the "sisters". I did have one companion share that he did it in the toilet specifically to avoid the trap! - 01/22/2000 - Sparky from recovery bbs


A little aside here.... one of the nicest, finest, greatest missionaries I ever knew once told me that he did "IT". Just never told the Mission Pres. or anyone. His dad was Bishop when he was interviewed (by dad) before going off to see the Stake Pres. to be interviewed for his mission. He told the story that his dad asked, "Son, do you practice masturbation?" To which he replied, "No dad, I've perfected it, so I don't have to practice anymore." - 01/22/2000 - Aussie John - from recovery bbs


For me anyway, between the years of 12-til marriage.

It's like air, I gotta have it, and once I do, it's nothing, but take it away and its all I and my buddies used to think about. We assumed we were all bad people, and we bet that no body else had our "problem".

I can only assume that the GA's have no sex drive, because if they are the same as me, I'd be seriously angry that they would do this to kids. - 01/22/2000 - anon<


Out of about 40 responses on this same question, 38 said that they had indulged on their missions. The Church has perfected making liars out of sincere young men. Those hypocrite leaders did it and their sons did/do it and their sons' sons will do it. God doesn't care if boys masturbate. The Church calls it self-discipline which is inane because this natural practice is impossible to avoid for the vast majority of young men. I was one of those unfortunates who never had wet dreams and I was constantly sexually aroused. Some people are more sexual than others and cannot do the impossible of abstaining. I sexually matured when I was 10 1/2 years old so what was I to do without the relief of wet dreams? - 01/22/2000 - Ex-caliber at recovery bbs

By being so desperately hard on those who do this, the Church is making liars out of many children and young men, and even some girls. I cringe when I think of some older man asking my son and daughter about sexual things. Some Church leaders really like to delve into the details of "sexual transgression" with young people. This intrusion into private lives is sickening and I believe the last thing that God would want for anyone. Please anyone reading this who still have children who are enduring these types of interviews, please tell them to tell the bishops/leaders etc. that they have "no problem" with masturbating and if the bishops and other leaders insist on prying that the children are to tell them that the they need to talk with their parents if they want any more information. Back up your kids on this. If a Bishop calls tell them that you have discussed these things with your children and that they are responding appropriately. You will never be blessed by forcing your children into submission on this one. Please don't subject your children to these damaging, guilt-inducing types of interviews by Church leaders. Don't gamble with your children's normal, healthy development. Please do it for the peace of mind and the normal growth of your children.


I didn't have my first masturbatory experience until I was 30. Throughout my teenage years, I thought masturbation was a rare practice that very few indulged in. Looking back, it's no wonder I was ten times hornier than all my friends put together. - 01/22/2000 - Dr. Shades - from recovery bbs


A man blessed his newborn son that he would have a healthy body, but would not be preoccupied with it. (We all know what THAT refers to :) - 12/10/1999 - Emma, heard this in a testimony meeting


And thus the practice came to be renamed for the man who most obsessed about it, and has been known from those days in the late 20th century onward as, "PACKERBATION"!

Packer-Bate: A habitual violator of same - 12/09/1999 - Infernal in Vernal


I think the funniest story I ever heard about wet dreams came from a friend of mine who recently retired as a BYU faculty member. He was divorced about 17 years ago, and never remarried. He went through many periods of depression, and finally confessed to his stake president that he masturbated a lot, and that he was depressed because he could not control his urges. The wise stake president simply said, "John, think of it as a wet dream while you are awake and just enjoy it!"- 12/10/1999 - anon


If masturbation drives you crazy, that might explain all the True Believing Mormons. - 10/04/1999 - Brigham Smith


Subject: Re: Boyd KKK Packer's "Little Factory"

To Young Men Only
by Boyd K. Packer
General Conference Priesthood Session, October 2, 1976

......A young man should learn to rule his body. Like his temper, he should keep it always under complete control. That sometimes is not easy to do.

I wish to explain something that will help you understand your young manhood.

There is more than one definition for one's "manhood."

and help you develop self-control. When this power begins to form, it might be likened to having a little factory in your body, one designed to produce the product that can generate life. [factory??? ]

This little factory moves quietly into operation as a normal and expected pattern of growth and begins to produce the lifegiving substance. It will do so perhaps as long as you live. It works very slowly. That is the way it should be. For the most part, unless you tamper with it, you will hardly be aware that it is working at all.

[Yea right : ) ] While climbing my hut at the tender age of 9 the awareness was not quiet.

......As you move closer to manhood, this little factory will sometimes produce an oversupply of this substance. The Lord has provided a way for that to be released. It will happen without any help or without any resistance from you. Perhaps, one night you will have a dream. In the course of it the release valve that controls the factory will open and release all that is excess.

"Captain, we can't hold it for very much longer! The engines are going to explode!!!"

The factory and automatic release work on their own schedule. The Lord intended it to be that way. It is to regulate itself. This will not happen very often. You may go a longer period of time, and there will be no need for this to occur. When it does, you should not feel guilty. It is the nature of young manhood and is part of becoming a man.

Indeed. The Mormon God intended to damage my young adolescent life through inappropriate shame for touching my own skin. The Mormon God, if he exists, is a hostile alien.

There is; however, something you should not do. Sometimes a young man does not understand. Perhaps he is encouraged by unwise or unworthy companions to tamper with that factory. He might fondle himself and open that release valve. This you shouldn't do, for if you do that, the little factory will speed up. You will then be tempted again and again to release it.

Again and again! Don't STOP!!! Boyd & his friend Spencer were obsessed with sex.

You can quickly be subjected to a habit, one that is not worthy, one that will leave you feeling depressed and feeling guilty.

Only if you are taught inappropriate shame.

Resist that temptation. Do not be guilty of tampering or playing with this sacred power of creation. Keep it in reserve for the time when it can be righteously employed. [employed?]

Build a factory for the Lord. Use it to produce as many pawns/sheep as possible. And by extension, one must never cover one's factory door, for such a thing could lead to overindulgence, and the workers may go on strike.

One of you, perhaps, has not fully understood until now. Perhaps your father did not talk to you.

Mine talked to me when I was 11, but he subsequently regrets the shaming I received as an adolescent from various Bishops.

You may already have been guilty of tampering with these powers. You may even have developed a habit. What do you do then?

First, I want you to know this. I you are struggling with this temptation and perhaps you have not quite been able to resist, the Lord still loves you. It is not anything so wicked [so wicked?]nor is it a transgression so great[so great?] the Lord would reject you because of it, but it can quickly lead to that kind of transgression. It is not pleasing to the Lord, nor is it pleasing to you.[really?] It does not make you feel worthy or clean. [how would you know?]

Spencer said it was akin to murder, didn't he?

There are ways to conquer such a habit. First of all, you must leave that factory alone long enough for it to slow down. Resisting is not easy.

In the words of the Daleks: Resistance is useless.

It will take weeks, even months.

Even years - maybe even up to 80 years.

But you can get the little factory [little? :( ] slowed back to where it should be.

I have other suggestions. The power to prevent such habits or to break them rests in your mind, not in your body.

My mind is part of my body. My neural network is directly linked with the "offending objects."

Don't let that physical part of you take charge. Stay in control.

Help enhance your multiple personality complex & cognitive dissidence by trying to separate yourself from bodily parts which are permanently attached, and from processes which took some 4.5 billion years to evolve into existence.

Condition your body to do the will of your mid. To do this you must keep your mind on worthy thoughts.

You must learn that sexual thoughts are evil.

Divert your thoughts from things that lead your into mischief. Vigorous physical exercise helps young men in many ways.

Yes, it helps increase their sex drive, and their cardiovascular endurance.

You are most vulnerable when you are idle or when you are discouraged. This is the time to be on guard.

I know a way to keep your thoughts worthy. It has helped me, and I explained it to on one occasion in a general conference talk. Let me repeat it for you.

Choose from among the sacred music of the Church a favorite hymn, one with words that are uplifting and music that is reverent, one that makes you feel something akin to inspiration. Go over it in your mid carefully. Memorize it. Even though you have had no musical training, you can think through a hymn.

Now, use this hymn as the place for your thoughts to go. Make it your emergency channel.[good plan Boyd :>] Whenever you find theses shady actors

Whenever you discover that you are a sexual being, REJECT such a FACT!

have slipped from the sidelines of your thinking onto the stage of your mid, put on this record, as it were. As the music begins and the words form in your thoughts, the unworthy ones will slip shamefully away from your mid. Because it is uplifting and clean, the baser thoughts will disappear. For while virtue, by choice, will not associate with filth, evil cannot tolerate the presence of light.

It didn't work for me.

In due time you will find yourself, on occasion, humming the music inwardly.

Nope, didn't work.

......Another thing will help both to prevent and to overcome such habits. At times of special temptation skip a meal or two. We call that fasting, you know. It has a powerful effect upon you physically. It diverts some of that physical energy to more ordinary needs. It tapers desire and reduces the temptation. Fasting will help you greatly..

Don't put sugar on your Kellog's Corn Flakes either (Kellog put it out as anti-masturbation food) - didn't work either.

Resist those temptations. Do not tamper with your body.

Is it my body or the Church's body? Is it my body or Joseph Smith's body?

If you have already, cease to do it --now. Put it away and overcome it. The signal of worthy manhood is self-control.

The signal of adult humanhood is reasonable autonomy from a-holes who would be your parent (like Boyd & Spencer).

This power is ordained for the begetting of life and as a binding tie in the marriage covenant. It is not to be misused. It is not to be use prematurely. It is to be known between husband and wife and in no other way. I you misuse it, you will be sorry.

I remember being given Boyd's pamphlet as an adolescent. One of my Bishops told us all that masturbation would lead to homosexuality. At 12 I was one of the only young men in my ward to get a regular recommend to do baptisms for the dead. However, 6 months to a year after I got the recommend, I was unworthy (in their eyes of course).

I confessed to every Bishop I had, on up through age 19, and I confessed to both mission presidents in my letters, and once or twice in actual interviews. I confessed after my mission to nearly all my singles ward bishops. And at the age of 26, I had had enough. Enough of the shame. Enough of the cycle of so-called failure.

I avoided dating because of my "problem" with masturbation. I didn't go to the Temple as much, though I was a veil worker while at Ricks, and at Jordan River for a while.

I think I wasn't called to leadership positions while growing up because I was too damn honest. Also, I resent the fact that the tender child I was at 12 was shamed & damaged for the next fifteen years.

Boyd Paker is indeed an evil man, as was Spencer.

My own exit story describes my story in more detail, at: (item 2)

And I found a related story at:

On a lighter note, where is the story about women not touching their automatic garage door openers? I can't remember the link. - 09/20/1999 - Jonathan


I don't remember the exact mission but I believe it was on SkyLab that the astronauts were instructed to masturbate because they would be away from their wives for so long that the muscles involved would atrofy . Muscles need exercise and masturbation exercises those muscles.Don't feel guilty about doing something that does not harm others. And don't feel guilty about exercise. - 09/28/1999 - Steve K


On this theme, the worst thing I personally experienced was when I was a member of a bishopric. We had a RM who had psychological problems, even ended up in an asylum. I took care of him and visited as often as I could. He hardly ever talked, very shy, very closed up. I worked together with one of those folks treating him because of the "religious" aspect. He figured that religion was part of the problem. One night the phone rang, the asylum was on the line telling me that my young friend was attempting suicide, standing in a window frame, 4th floor, prepared to jump. They couldn't get him inside. He mentioned my name, he would only be prepared to talk to me. I needed about 30 minutes by car. Crossed quite a few red lights.

Making a long story short: I talked to him with wardens, police etc. hanging around. I actually hated it, I was scared I would say something wrong and he would jump. After a long time I got to the point were I could ask him why he wanted to end his life. He paused and then said because he had sinned so terribly. Which sin? He had masturbated once (!) during his mission. He was back from his mission for 18 months now and had "sinned" again (masturbated). So that's twice in 18 months. I couldn't believe what I was hearing, forget the other folks around me. I asked him how come. He had confessed his first sin to his home teacher a few months before. The home teacher assured him that it was a terrible sin. He had sinned "again", therefor the jump. This was then one of the few occasions were I used my "power and authority of the priesthood": I told him by that authority to come inside again, that all was well, that he had not sinned, rather his home teacher had! Those few seconds afterwards were awesome. He came back and cried his soul out in my arms.

Next day, actually the same morning (Sunday) I had an interview with the home teacher. I admit that I used my "power" again. I asked him to show me an official source for his "masturbation doctrine". He couldn't provide. I "rebuked" him and then told him what had happened. He went silent.

BTW: The home teacher actually is a "nice fella". Really. But then, it's the same person who doesn't have any own children. According to his wife they have a very "pure" life: They haven't had sex for about 15 years! It's amazing what some folks told me even when I didn't ask them during interviews! One secret is not to talk yourself, ask no or hardly any questions, let them talk, have the courage for long pauses. Most people can't bear with pauses, they get into talking.

Incredible! Once one of my boys came from church after an "interview" with the stake-president. He had asked about masturbation. I phoned the SP and told him that never again would he ask my children such personal questions. If there was someone "entitled" to talk about that with my children, it was the parents!!! I was high-counsellor at that time.

I guess for usual US-LDS standards I was liberal on that point of view. - 09/18/1999 - James


I felt really sorry for the people that I met in the church that tortured themselves about masturbation. I remember that as a new member, I had a hard time even washing my genital area because I was afraid that I would be tempted to masturbate. I was mortified when I had a wet dream! I was even more mortified when I actually had a conversation (I was on the listening end) with an elderly Stake presidency member who had the hots for me...about masturbation...he said that he did it while thinking of me. Ewwww! It wasn't bad enough that he was older than King Noah, but I was horrified that a member of the penishood would masturbate, and even more admit it to me (he thought I was going to be his temple bride...AS IF!). - 9/17/1999 - anonymous female


If masturbation is "self-abuse," why is it so enjoyable and why is it that anyone rarely gets hurt. It seems that the LDS Church is more interested in policing abuse of one's self than spousal or child abuse. - 09/08/1999 - swdc


Actually, as a young Morg girl I heard a talk about "self-abuse" (it took me quite a while to figure out what that was). It was implied that boys engaged in this sin all the time but only a few (corrupt and sensual) girls ever did. I thought about this for a long time and about three days later it dawned on me that what I had been doing for years was "self abuse." I didn't learn the term masturbation for years. I guess girls were to sweet and pure to even know that much about sex. - 09/07/1999 - j


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