I made an attempt at poetry also to share how I felt when I finally gave in and visited The Mall. The corridors were sparsely populated and not even the aroma of food seemed to invite me in. I too, noticed the sad, sagging homeless close by.
I had to view
Part didn't want to
But one drug the other in
To see this so-called mall of sin.
It was breath-taking
Built to impress
See the temple
See the mall
We built them all.
But the homeless
Sitting near by
Said it all
With the blink of her eye.
I sit and sit
I wait and wait
Hearing the refrain
The mall is great.
Great to who?
To me, to you?
Hardly, why no...
I dread the snow.
When upon life's billows and you need to shop
When you are discouraged at the parking lots
Come to CITY CREEEEK,..... each and everyone
And it will surprise you what God's corp-or-ation's done
C....ount your mone...y, hundreds...fives and ones
C....ount your credit cards and see what sales are on
Ignore the home.......less outside the temple walls
Count how endless tithing had.... no effect at all.
Are you ever burdened with the lines at Gap
Do your bags seem heavy as you shop at Mr. Mac
C......ount your money... and GAZE up in the sky
Ask yourself why Condo prices... are so high.
When you shop at City Creek with diamonds and the gold
Think that Christ has promised you His wealth un....told
C-o-u-n-t your many blessings, with Credit on your side
No reward in heaven,... just this palace in the sky
So amid the conflict at the check out stands
Do not be discouraged at five billion spent
C...ount your many blessings at the tithing you sent in
Question not the leaders that would be co-mitt-ing sin
C.....ount your money, hundreds, fives and ones
C....ount your money and scorn-those that cannot come
C....ount the tithing... sent in by me and you
Count the money and ignore Mormon 8 verse3 2
Are you ever burdened with a load of debt?
Does the cross seem heavy when you're tithed to death
Count your many blessings as your house is reposessed
And keep ever faithful in the state of most depressed.
So, amid the conflict whether great or small,
Do not be disheartened, God is owner of the mall;
Count... your many blessings, angels will attend,
Help and comfort give you till your shopping ends
(hit the links, the pictures speak for themselves, but I added commentary anyway)
I just read a story about the LDS churchÕs efforts (and back patting) regarding its plan to distribute 600 Òtemporary housing kitsÓ to Haitian members before the rainy season starts in April. The story contains a picture of the ÒkitÓ which is mostly several pieces of 2 x 4 lumber and a piece of corrugated tin.
It would be nice if the LDS church could make a similar investment in Haiti as it is making in downtown Salt Lake City with the City Creek Center.
I guess the churchÕs position is that the expenditures in Haiti should be keep at a minimum as the money would only be helping the poor, hungry, homeless and needy. However, its efforts in Salt Lake are more important as they embellish the churchÕs business image and headquarter environment, produce business income, and create job opportunities (perhaps by running businesses through family connected contractors).
The Mormon Church has now admitted that the cost of the City Creek Center Project is “officially” 3 Billion Dollars.
This is by no means the end of such announcements. As I have revealed previously, the Mormon Church fully expects the cost of the project to reach 8 Billion Dollars.
Their feeling is that by making periodic announcements about cost increases no one will remember that Gordon B. Hinckley stated at the start of the project that the Projected costs at about 750 to 950 Million Dollars. Also they believe that by incrementally announcing cost increases the increases can be blamed on economic conditions and/or contractor faults. Thus keeping them from having to admit they knew the true cost in the beginning.
You guys are missing the biggest benefit of this project. - by OlMan
The project completely blocks any view of the temple from the south. You have to be directly west of the temple on the freeway before you can see it.
Just how much does it come to cost per member? - by Nebraska nevermo
Based on 8 billion dollars, and the LDS church's long-stated membership of 12 million members, that works out to... $666 per member.
The mark of the beast?
Please, please, please tell me that there will be a Marriott Center for the Erotic Arts opening in the new City Creek Mall - I don't feel like staying in a hotel every time I want porn, but I do want to make sure that the mormon 'church' gets its ten percent: the 'prophet' needs his cut.
I can just picture it now.
Monson: Now, brothers and sisters as we commemorate the birth of our lord and savior Jesus Christ on this special holiday season, be sure to stop by Macy's in the City Creek Mall across the street for all your special holiday shopping where you can't beat their low low prices and get top dollar. Right now they are offering a 50% off special if you mention this talk.
In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
And you have to listen - by Stray Mutt
And you have to listen to a pitch for timeshare condos before they'll unlock the exits.
The Only True & Living Mall
Profit in search of a Profit Mall
The "I Shopped Today Where Jesus Shops" Mall - by Kim
Haun's Mall - by Anon Squared
The Duty to God Shopping Mall
Heavenly Mother's Mall - but pray to Heavenly Father for her to have lots of sales.
The Anti-Beelzebub-Lucifer Mall or Lamanite Landing
The Marsh Cream Mall - Where 10 percent of rental proceeds are skimmed for God. - Elder Berry
What is this?
Does it have a name?
Will you give it to me?
I will at the cash register.
Health in my wallet, strength in my shopping bag, be upon my purchases and all those that use these purchases, until they go out of fashion, or until they come back in fashion.
PAY LAY bill. (but have an ALE at Laban's head pub)
You can buy anything with money, Mall
The, all other malls are false and run by satan, Mall. - 6 iron
Your Tithing Dollars Stop Here Mall - Guy Noir, Private Eye
The Mall that Jesus Built
Rosa Parks & Dallin Oaks Unification Square
The Persecution Complex - ramanujam
The "We Changed Our Minds About Returning to Missouri" Mall - Holy the Ghost
Temporal Square - Crud
Kolob Korners - Laban's Head
The Hie Kolob
The New World Odor
The Richard Head Memorial Mall - Cognitive Dissentnance
Corporation of the Presiding Bishop - confused
White Elephant Mall - AxelDC
Hinkley's Last Erection - freeatlast
Lots of room at the INN Mall - Greg
Lay and Lie on the Lawn mall - all sexual preferences welcome
The "Mountain Meadows Mess Mall"
The" Temple Rec. Discount Mall"
The "Three Little Plyggy Mall"
The "We Will Go Down (town) " Mall
The Mall ya'all Built!
The " Test o' Money " Mall - Moronnomore
The 'I don't know that we sell that' Mall - Aberrant Sky
The Spritual Energy Solutions Center - anon
The great and spacious building. - emalee
Jesus wants me to sell real estate!
And sell for him each day (except Sunday!)
In every way try to please him
Selling condos for his church!
There's the temple, now please buy a condo!
I'm selling condos for L-D-S Inc.!
You gotta admit the Mormon church sure knows how to make money off it's members. Rich Mormons are snapping up the condos to get that view of Temple Square and show how righteous they are. Despite predictions of failure, City Creek Center will likely be a success due to the faithful members buying up everything the morg puts out. LDS Inc. is a business before they are a church, they know how to make money.
"OK, so $2 million for a family loft downtown sounds steep. So, too, does $1 million for a one-bedroom condo or a half-million for a stylish but teensy studio.
But maybe not -- for a moneyed Mormon who yearns to live across the street from the faith's most iconic symbol: the Salt Lake Temple.
After all, how much would a Catholic pay for a condo view of the Vatican or an Orthodox Jew to live near the Wailing Wall?"
The condos may do well, but the mall will fail by AxelDC
The 2nd largest Mall owner in the US just failed today. The mall has been dying for some time, and a mall that is closed on Sundays is doomed in the best of circumstances.
The church is going to lose its shirt on this, and it also begs the question:
Why is a church building a shopping mall?
Why is the Church building the big and spacious building....Simple answer - by anon
There is no such thing as "non-tithing" revenue. The church uses this canard to excuse all their abusive expenditures.
The church has 2 forms of revenue:
B) Investment dividends from investing surplus tithing.
The fact that Group B is so large means that the church is receiving too much tithing from its members and spending too little of it on their welfare. Members are not told that most of their tithing money is used to grow LDS, Inc., not for the pastoral care of its members.
While any non-profit should wisely protect its resources, that money should be poured back into the primary mission of the organization, not for feathering the nests of its executives. This is just a form of money laundering by LDS leaders, all done without any accountability to its membership.
You should ad C) Gifts - by Guy Noir, Private Eye
lots of (Well-to-do & other) members are soooooooooooo enamoured of tscc... that they give their accumulated wealth to 'The Morg' rather than to family....
I bet THAT makes a lot of otherwise TBM's 'thrilled'
I was sitting in a construction meeting yesterday - by elee
Here in SLC. The project managers from the construction company (Layton, one of the biggies), the architects, the electrical engineering sub, the mechanical sub, the estimators, etc.... bar none were discussing how busy things have gotten in the past month after several months of lay offs and other firms going out of business.
I would conjecture LDS, Inc. will be experiencing the same turn around, provided their bottom line is in order (and I assume it is), I reckon they'll get their mall built and sell most of the condos.
However, with enforced Sunday closures, even for non-mormon tenants, they are going to face steep competition from nearby venues which do open on Sundays. Which is when I shop. So I won't be spending my money at the Mormon Mega Mall of 'Merica. Liquor licenses in the restaurants aside, if shopping there isn't conducive to my schedule, I won't be spending money there.
Condos are selling well - by LifeIsGreatNow
Yep, definitely seems like a move for the rich GAs to surround themselves with rich Mormons so the rest of the world can see how holy they've all been. You remember that their Book of Mormon clearly says that "the righteous will prosper in the land."
Here's proof that all these leaders/leaches will suck as much tithing money from struggling and poor members as possible to appear "righteous in the land".
How pathetic, again, for the Church to build and sell full floor-to-ceiling window apartments that overlook their blessed church building to the Mormon rich while the Mormon poor unspeakably suffer to support it.
Oh! I almost forgot! Tithing money wasn't used - it was just the investment returns seeded and used from tithing money!
I wonder if they ever considered using that money for the poor instead, including impoverished members? Oh! I almost forgot again! These poor members haven't been righteous enough to deserve what the rich church leaders deserve. How silly of me to forget.
The restaurants will be allowed to file for a liquor license - elee
or tavern license, depending on which they prefer.
The current scuttlebutt is the church did not interfere with getting rid of the Private Club Law from Utah's liquor statutes because it would impact their own bottom line. If you've ever worked in a restaurant, you know that the profits are made with liquor sales, and even then, profit margins are razor thin. Without liquor, might as well not even open.
The LDS where money talks by ABCD@xyz.com
From what I saw, TSCC made sure the change would happen. There were some legislators that were hell bent on stopping the change, but after the LDS meet with Utah Law makers, those that opposed the change were all on board, and they got very little if anything in return for their support.
Why the surpise? - by Luman Walters
Both Joseph Smith in Nauvoo and Brigham Young in Salt Lake City established and made money from bars/the liquor business.
blind eye to liquor sales - by LifeIsGreatNow
Most likely they turn a considered blind eye to liquor sales, you know, like they do when mega tithe payer J. Willard Marriott shows porn in his hotel rooms. After all, J. Willard Marriott has a two name, one initial name - just like the General Authorities!
Yep, if you pump enough tithing into the Church coffers you can get away with anything. A non-paying Mormon doing the same would have his sorry ass kicked to the curb, probably by some self righteous Stake President. Rich tithe paying Mormons are protected by the rich GAs with a vengeance.
Here's the LDS statement on restaurants & liquor - by elee
"Will alcohol be available at any location in the project?"
"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has consistently made plain that in matters of public policy it is not opposed to responsible consumption of alcoholic beverages by informed adults."
"Current state laws in Utah balance responsible consumption with measures to discourage alcohol abuse, reduce impaired driving and eliminate underage drinking."
"In City Creek Center, a limited number of high-quality restaurant tenants who will operate on land not owned by the Church may apply for licenses to serve alcoholic beverages in accordance with existing state regulations."
Restaurants will be open on Sundays - by forestpal
So, the rich Mormon condo owners will have a place to eat Sunday dinner, and the thousands of worthy tourists flocking to Temple Square will have places to nourish and strengthen their bodies.
I know some of the people who have bought a condo in the "New Downtown Salt Lake City" (they don't like to use the dirty word, 'mall') Most families have bought more than one. It is definitely IN to have one of those condo's. I mean, anybody who is ANYBODY will have one. I know that a lot of these people have been given a second anointing, and are HUGE contributors to the church. The ones I know are in business together, employ relatives, marry their children to each other, employ only Mormons, and most of the originators went to high school together, and were in the same ward. They are like family (Mafia).
Talk about your priestcrafts to get gain. - by badseed
LDS inc creates a demand for a belief system that supplies a sense of belonging and a steady flow of warm fuzzies.
Then it proceeds to cash in on that— tithing, GA book sales, education week fees etc etc.
I always fond it weird that Joseph Smith was usually in charge of land sales whenever the Saints gathered somewhere Now I see its the same thing. Create the demand and then cash in.
I bet they will open Sundays eventually - by BYU Alum
When I was at the Y, the Orem mall was closed on Sundays. I remember the mall manager writing an editorial in the Herald stating that the Orem mall would Never be open on Sundays.
Guess what? Yep, the mall eventually opened on Sundays. My bet is that the greedy bastard in TSCC will eventually open the mall on Sundays.
Yep. I remember when Dan's Foods & Smith's Food King - by elee
were closed on Sundays. Now several are open 24/7.
It's always about the bottom line. If money is being diverted to Gateway and Fashion Place Mall due to Sunday closures, I reckon there'll be a revelation-based business decision to change the schedule tout-suite.
Shouldn't it be "City CRICK Condos" in keeping with the Utah dialect? - by mikeygoestohollywood
The condo owners will be able to save a little bit... - by Adult of god
they won't have to buy a framed photo of the temple to hang on their walls.
I see the church is doing it's part to provide AFFORDABLE housing. - geneticerror
My condo vs their condo - by bona dea
My condo is bigger than some of those, has more amenities and I got it for $130,000. If I want a view of the Temple and the hole that is going to be the mall, I'm only 10 minutes away by car. Why anyone would spend that much to live downtown is beyond me. Oh yeah, my furniture is better than that in the newspaper picture.You can buy a lot with all that money you didn't spend on the City Creek Condo.
From MSN MONEY:
IS THE AMERICAN MALL DYING?
"Developers face the music
The slumping retail industry means a lot of worry for the people who build and own the malls. The presence of anchor stores is written into lease terms at many malls. Mall developers actually pay the anchor retailers –- from $2 million to $6 million per store -- to become shopping center tenants, Davidowitz explained.
Leases for smaller stores include guarantees that the anchors will be present. If mall owners can't fill the anchor spaces vacated by Steve & Barry's, Macy's or other retailers, many other leases will be in jeopardy."
It's a good thing that God is personally in charge of the Billion-dollar+ City Creek Mall. On the other hand, if the Mall brings the Morg down, how will our Prophets, Seers, and Revelators ever explain things?
Church is gonna take a bath on this one - AxelDC
The LDS Church is gonna lose its shirt on the White Elephant Mall. You don't have to be a prophet to realize that shopping malls are a dying industry.
The church is in for $3 billion on the White Elephant Mall. That's up from original estimates of $2 billion. The ZCMI Center failed because it was closed on Sunday, driving away customers and retailers. The WEM will be closed on Sundays as well, further gimping the project.
The value of the land has plummeted with the real estate bubble. The church has lost a fortune in the stock market crash. The WEM will open under shaky economic times, if the recession hasn't already cleared.
This investment is going to cost them dearly. Why a church should be building shopping malls is beyond me, but as a capital venture, this mall just reeks of red ink.
This is not recession. It's a full on world-wide banking collapse. - Rubicon
There is $1.5 Gazillion in outstanding derivatives worldwide. Yes. A Gazillion is a real number. This makes every financial institution in the world practically insolvent. They are trying to have governments buy up these bad assets but their are too many to buy up completely. Plus the central banks are printing money like crazy which will bring in hyperinflation later.
They are trying to paper over this by using so called govt. bailouts but this money has only gone to the desperate and broke bankers who are doing what they can to take over entire governments using fear and desperation as the excuse to empower themselves politically. In other words, fascism is rearing it's ugly head with a banking oligarchy engineering it because it's the only thing they can do to keep power because they are broke and they know it.
In other words. Paper assets are worthless so the smart people are grabbing for control of real assets.
But...but...the stock market is up 20% this month! - Jim Cramer
If prophets, seers, and revelators don’t work, maybe Profits, Sears, and Realtors will. - Robert Oh
It seems like Prophets, Seers and Revelators - CA girl
would have seen this coming. Or were they talking as men when they got into this plan? You'd think the Lord, who may not tell his prophets everything, might mention to them that they were wasting his money and jepordizing his church. Oh, wait. None of it belongs to any Lord. That's right. I figured that out months ago.
Bankruptcy - Heresy
The City Center project in Vegas is on the brink of bankruptcy:
Another bankruptcy coming in malls, General Growth:
Developers elsewhere in the Salt Lake valley are facing reality. - Watcher
Look at the old Cottonwood Mall. Or try -- it's gone. And the developers who were going to come in with something better have basically left town. Now there's just acres of open dirt there.
It's the same thing in Sugar house, that once-famous corner is now just open dirt behind a chain link fence. AT least they finaly filled the hole.
Speaking of holes in the ground, there's an old line that says: "When you find you're in a hole, STOP DIGGING!"
But the church is too proud to stop.
The church will pull assets in from where ever it can to finish Hinckleys bridge to nowhere. - Rubicon
This banking crises is horrid and it's worldwide. Every major bank is basically insolvent and now governments have become the end creditor. We are going to see whole countries evolve into something else. Possibly trade unions like the European Union or melt down into anarchy with tyranny eventually replacing it. It won't be pretty. This being said, I wonder if the LDS Church can weather such a storm. It's members will look to it for help but will it be useful? Can it really help? To me, the people running the church seem more interested in waging political wars with the gay community, building luxery malls, and building temples nobody needs or really wants anymore.
You said it the best, Watcher... - MRM
the church is to proud. That sums up many of the problems of the mormon church. They are to proud to say they are wrong.
I know Eric Nordstrom and I tried to tell him he was building too many stores years ago. - Rubicon
Nordstroms fell into the same trap most retailers have. It became a game of build more and when commercial real estate could be financed with zero money down the thought of saturating the market was appealing. At the time The Mall of America store opened, Nordstroms only had $40 million in cash. The rest was pure leverage.
When the economy started faltering it hit at the top first. Many luxery stores are feeling the pain and even luxery real estate is getting hit. I think we will see Nieman Marcus go out of business this year. The only retailer that won't get hit hard is Wal-Mart. The rest of them would start dropping and cities will be filled with empty big box stores with nobody to fill them other than homeless vagrants. It's going to be a mess.
They haven't been paying attention to modern urban planning theory. - flattopSF
If they had created a desirable environment for a creative core to move in and take over, they would have redevelopment coming out their asses. Look at San Francisco's SoMa, or Los Angeles' downtown.
Too bad for the idiots running the cult they don't like creatives. Or feminists. Or intellectuals. Or gays. A healthy combination of all of the above would have been all they needed to fix their dead dead dead downtown. Pity.
Looks like they're gonna lose their Jesus Jammies on Moroni's Mega Mall.
I hear that - Taddlywog
I talk to a lot of corp folk and they seem to like to unburden themselves on anonymous techs. They are leaving California and you cant help but notice the isles in the retail stores are getting wider as the number of shelves are being reduced. And still there is not enough inventory to keep the shelves filled. Basic supply and demand would suggest high inflation is next. Our government keeps giving money away like it is worthless. Definately not a good time to build a mall.
Commercial real estate is the next round to fall, so we haven't ... - Sad Stuff
...even seen the worst of it yet. This is no time to be building a high-end mall! But they keep sinking their money in it, what will it take before they face the facts?
Stock market UP 20%, housing is bottoming, recession is OVER, happy times are back! - Jim Cramer
Canadian Sam's club stores have all closed - 6 iron
I'm not sure why but here in Canada, all of the Sam's clubs have closed. The one in my city is now empty. The big mall that was built downtown became empty. It has redefined itself and the big city library took over a department store, and the mall is barely surviving because of changing itself from usual mall type stores to whatever type stores.
Kolob lies many millions of trillions of light years away, but just imagine what exciting goods are created on the world where God lives. It would have malls that make the Mormon City Creek Mall look like your local convenience store. It would have golden paved streets and shine so brightly that Las Vegas would be like an outhouse in comparison. The possibilities of goods available to consume are UNBELIEVABLE! It's quite something to think about.
But you can't just go to Kolob and purchase items using a simple Visa, Mastercard, or American Express. Even the dollar wouldn't get you far.
That is why you need the Kolob express card! With an unlimited credit limit, and an unlimited grace period, you can shop like you've just won the lotto. And since you are immortal, you will have plenty of time to pay back the expenses. With a fair apy of 10%, how can you lose?
Just Imagine - sing to the tune: "If you could hie to Kolob"
If you could buy on Kolob from one of Eloheim's wives,
A purse, a scarf, an afghan, even cola, burger and fries,
Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity,
Ever reach the spending limit, so you'd never be debt free?
Buy a house to live in, or your current space extend?
Or buy some gold laced slipper, or some platinum plated Depends?
Me thinks the Spirit whispers, Kolob is an awesome place!
How bout some brand new curtains, or a gazebo at your place.
The works of God continue, And worlds and lives
Improvement and progression Have one eternal round.
There is no end to material goods; You can rent more storage space;
There is no end to spirits; You can get yourself real blazed.
There is no end to spending; There is no end in sight;
There is no end to buying; You can gamble through the night.
You could bribe a workers union; Or corrupt impressionable youth;
There is no end to what you could do; There is no end to graft.
There is no end to whoring; But perhaps an end to
There is no end to eating; You can almost weigh a ton.
There is no end to golfing; Or buying brand new Suns;
There is no end to spending; Just pay back 2% a month.
Yes my Gods and Goddesses, with the Kolob Express, you can be a high roller and have more apparent glory than the God standing next to you with our card. Live the high life you thought you would have when you received your eternal exaltation and stick it to the lower Gods!
My wife is from Seattle and one of her relatives has worked for Nordstrom's for years and now is a top executive in the company. She started as a sale's rep and worked her way up the ladder. She helped Eric Nordstrom run the Mall of America store. From selling merchandise, to being a buyer, to managing stores, to working at corporate, this person has seen every level of a higher end retail clothing chain.
My side of the family are contractors. My dad built luxery homes and lodges in the Sun Valley area. My uncle is a big industrial contractor in the Las Vegas area and knows a lot about large projects that are suppossed to attract people.
My uncle laughed and said the church is trying to build the Belagio in downtown Salt Lake City without the gambeling. Of course he was joking because the new mall won't be anything close to the Belagio. He says $1.5 billion is a lot of capital investment to recover and the new mall could become outdated before that happens or worse, be a big loser from the get go.
The Norstrom executive said large malls do well in very cold climates like Edmonton or Minniapolis but in a place like Salt Lake City with nice malls in the suberbs why would enough people go to make such a huge project work? She said Nordstroms wanted to get out of the Crossroads Plaza mall that the church owned to relocate to the Gateway Plaza Mall and the church was not nice to deal with and held them to their lease. Now the church is going to demolish the Crossroads Plaza Mall. She said how can little ol' Salt Lake rent high end space with the Gateway Mall a few blocks west?
Apparently the church is already hitting up Cartier and Gucci to be future tennants.
My uncle laughed and said they better pay the chuch employee better since the church is the largest employer in Utah. He just sighed and said the church is building it's Vatican since metropolitan SLC has evolved into a liberal city with a difersified minority base. Mormons are actually a minority. The church feels threatened by this and is willing to spend so much money in downtown Salt Lake, they make their presence known. They are trying to make everything church owned bigger and better.
In short, the church is trying to compensate for it's shrinkage by building another huge masterpiece across from Temple Square. It's not a wise use of the money, but since when has the church ever been wise with it's money. It's been broke for most of it's history and almost went broke again in the late 1950's due to overexpansion.
Amazing. When the church caught flak for closing the old Hotel Utah, Gordon B. Hinckley told the saints the church was losing money on it. He then addmitted the church wasn't very good at running commercial enterprises and these were better managed by the private sector than the church. So Gordo admitted the church doesn't run businesses well. Go figure.
Excellent observation - Cults in decline, from "The Guru Papers" - by John Corrill
Rubicon said: "In short, the church is trying to compensate for it's shrinkage by building another huge masterpiece across from Temple Square".
From "The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power", (Kramer & Alstad): "When a [spiritual leader] realizes that most people are not going to acknowledge him, he often compensates (if he can afford it) by building monumental edifices that proclaim hes greatness. This includes monuments or temples, buildings, model communities, and "learning centers."...This not only keeps disciples busy and distracted, but it is necessary because the flow of resources that came with expansion has greatly diminished. This glorification of work always involves improving the leaders property, increasing his wealth or some grandiose project.
I just came from a meeting at our corporate headquarters where the subject of instruction was the current building projects and projected projects in Utah and SLC and how we (my company) are going to meet the needs.
Some interesting facts that came from the meeting.
1. The City Creek Center:
a. Our company estimates that the true cost will be $6 – $8 billion dollars. This is based on the following facts.
1. This is a fast tract project. The construction of one 22 story tower and two 18 story towers would normally take three to five years alone. Add in all the auxiliary buildings, infrastructure (sewer, waterlines, communication lines, etc. - oh yes and the mole people tunnels), street level improvements, etc. It costs a lot of money to keep a project like this on track for the short amount of construction time available. After all they are destroying two city blocks and replacing them new in 48 months (project end date to be 2011). As the presenter stated “Imagine if two city blocks in Manhattan were to be removed and replaced, oh that’s right, the “Freedom” towers and complex are. Could that be done in 48 months? NO WAY. The “Freedom” tower alone is projected to take six to eight years.“ (by the way, the Freedom tower is only one city block).
2. Competition from current construction projects for labor. Legacy Highway, Draper Temple, South Jordan Temple, TRAX expansion, Commuter Rail, Housing projects like Kennecott Day Break, Retail and Commercial construction to service the current construction projects etc., all have placed a demand on available man power and crafts. To compete with these projects the City Creek Center construction companies (Jacobson, Oakland and Big D) are going to have to pay premium wages and salaries. This means no more day labors at $5.25 per hour. Our company projects that a helper is going to be paid $14.50 per hour. Can you say Hurricane Katrina prices?
3. Competition from current construction projects for materials. To compete with the current projects the City Creek Center construction companies (Jacobson, Oakland and Big D) are going to have to pay premium prices for materials. Even with the Mormon church buying direct from the manufacturers, the materials will be more expensive as the delivery dates will cause the materials to be rush orders. The Mormon church is notorious for waiting until the last minute to purchase materials (maybe they think that construction supplies will be found on-site every morning like “manna” from heaven?). This fact of delayed buying caused the conference center costs to rise from the projected $315 million estimate to the final cost of $1.1 billion.
4. There currently is a shortage of qualified workers. Our company estimates that when started City Creek Center will demand an extra 25 000 to 35 000 workers. Our company estimates that mid project there will be over 100 000 construction workers needed. These individuals will have to come from out of state. (So, if you can swing a hammer and bend a nail, head to SLC, hell if you own a hammer come to SLC). Funny side note, unless they make construction of the City Creek Center a mission calling, the influx of workers are not going to be Mormon. So not only are they going to over pay for the workers, they will loose 10% more of their money.
5. The cost of just getting to “zero dirt” our company estimates will be between $450 - $650 million. This includes demolition of the current buildings, moving and relocating (breaking leases) tenants out of the current buildings, removing all current utilities and replacing with new that meet up to date requirements (seismic, materials, etc.).
One of the presenters expressed the biggest concern. FAST TRACK = FAST CRAP. What he means is that the City Creek Center will be built on 7 day cures for the concrete (7 days is the minimum allowed, whereas 28 day is the best cure), hastily constructed supports, minimum welds, and every other short cut that can be done to save time.
He pointed out that the Conference center was a fast track and it is already having major problems (leaking roof, panels falling off, interior wall are wet, etc.).
Yes kiddies, believe it or not, there is more. Part 2 is coming soon.
Church Office Buidling: crappy, sick building by substrate
Anyone who has worked in the COB as I have knows how poorly constructed that building is. My friend, who is a structural engineer at the COB, told me that the concrete facade was not attached properly and will eventually come off. Most interior walls are cheap vinyl dividers, and everything was obviously done "on the cheap."
While I was there, they did a "peripheral unit retrofit," wherein they replaced all the airflow vents with smaller vents. This kicked up clouds of dust for weeks, and I have had allergies since then. Also, while there I developed an infection of the cartilage between my ribs that would not go away until a few weeks after I quit. Coincidence? Maybe.
Jeez, I sound paranoid, but it really was a crappy place to work.
How did you forget to mention the CARPETS!!! by Nom de Cypher
The same sick carpets that have been there since the building was built in the 70s, and it shows.
Just looking at the carpet made me a little queasy. And I'm sorry, but I had to laugh outloud when I saw that they were patching up rips with duct tape. Seems like a fitting metaphor.
This is Just the Beginning of Cost Over rides by Construction Man
Anyone in the construction business knows that their are unexpected costs before you start the project. So a certain amount is set aside. In the project thsi big no-one nows what those costs are. The owners miss something and their is another charge for that. Given the fact that their is a concrete shortage in North America right now, it will be hard to predict how this affects the costs of a job. Right now in Toronto constrction companies are out bidding each other just to get concrete and remember this mall has not even started a building yet. How does this affect costs.
There is also a copper shortage so this affect the electrical work. These shortages are caused by world wide demands. As for 7 day cure vs 21 day curse its a big problem too.
Bottom line I think I will like to work on this project for all the overtime. Plus seeing jsut how cheap this mall will realy be built. Reminds me of the Bountiful temple. I saw all these pictures and went wow. Then went to temple to find what I thought was solid blocks of rocks and stones were only plastic. Even inside what looked like plaster wwas plastic. What a disappointment. God's house was made of plastic instead of solid materials, but it looks like marble and stone.
2. Salt Lake Valley Temples (Draper and South Jordan)
These are a fast track projects. The construction of the two temples has been accelerated. Reason – The Salt Lake City temple needs seismic up grades so the two new temples will be constructed on a fast track schedule (one and a half years). This means crappy construction, cost over-runs, construction delays, etc. I discussed in Part 1 of my posting. Probable cost of each temple Draper – $450 million, South Jordan $385 million.
3. Ensign Plaza South
The Mormon church is concerned about the blight that surrounds the Ogden temple. Therefore they are constructing a five story office tower named Ensign Plaza South. The project is under construction at this time. The cost is estimated at $75 – 125 million.
4. Church Office Building
As I discussed in another thread, the COB concrete facing is disintegrating because of rebar corrosion. The Mormon church plans on re-facing the BIG PENIS starting about 2008. An announcement will be made that the structure is aging, needs seismic up grades and in order to preserve the continuity of Temple Square a new façade of Granite will be used to cover the steel framing. At this same time true seismic up grading (cross beam supports, shear planes, etc.) will be done. The costs will be between $350 – $750 million, depending on how much remodeling is done.
The COB was (as noted in Part 1) built on the cheap. Henry B. Moyle almost spent the Mormon church into bankruptcy with his building projects. Being the faithful that he was, Elder Moyle conveniently had a heart attack and died while on vacation so the Brethren didn’t have to excommunicate him. Faithful bastard.
5. Salt Lake City Temple
When conducting the seismic up grade to the Tabernacle, the Mormon church discovered several problems not found in the original evaluation of the structure. The renovation of the Tabernacle has become more involved and costlier. An investigation of the Salt Lake City Temple has revealed some of the same flaws. Because of this the structure has to be renovated for seismic and other requirements. Whereas the Tabernacle cost $175 million to renovate the estimates on the Temple is between $250 – 450 million.
Remember all these projects are to be completed by 2011. Total costs $10.1 billion. If you include the Conference center ($1.1 billion) the total spending in Utah not to include chapels and stake centers $11.2 billion dollars.
Yeah, they need my money for feeding the poor, nurturing the needy, housing the homeless, etc.
The Land of Knee-high Levis - A specialty boutique featuring garment compatible denim shorts.
Hagoth's Travel - Book your South Pacific cruises here.
Paul H. Dunn, Bookseller - fiction only.
Captain Moroni's Military Surplus - Steel swords a specialty.
Joe's Magic Shop - Get your seerstones and Jupiter talismans.
Cureloms and Things - An exotic pet store. Yes, they carry tapirs!
Sherri's Crafts - Features a wide collection of Relief Society homemaking night crafts. Turkey carcass sleighs! Tampon angels! Look, you can't beat this stuff.
The Last Days - Food storage and survival supplies for those saints anxiously awaiting the second coming.
First Visions - A complete collection of Mormon cinema on DVD. Currently featuring the last 25 years of General Conference box set.
Jeffs' Bridal Shop - A "family" business from Southern Utah (and Texas, and British Columbia).
Boyd's Little Factory Outlet - A wholesale porn store fronted by a plumbing suppy and fertilizer distributor.
Emma's Secret - lingerie for Mormons - by Dagny
The Steak Center - Meat is only served after the milk of course. - by mishie friend
Build-A- Testimonkey Store - Kids get to make and stuff their own cute little TestiMonkey. Stuffed with missionary tracts, says "I know the Church is Twooo" when squeezed. - by Turnip
Your Body is Our Temple - Featuring temple-worthy clothing for all temple-worthy lifestyles. - by toto
Sunbeam Sunshine Daycare Center - Where to drop off the tots while you shop - by the time you return, here are songs they will learn... "I Hope They Call Me On A Mission", "We Thank Thee Oh God For A Profit", - Bring 'em, we'll train 'em. - by toto
The Golden Plates - Faux jewelry with that realistic look and feel. - by toto
Gateway East - A mini outside mall within the bigger mall to remind customers of the former shopping experience at the Gateway. - by toto
TabernacO - Get your thrill while listening to the best of Donny & Marie and other famous Mormon musical artists. Special musical collections include a body-length poster of Donny in his "coat of many colors" costume. - by toto
Saintzz Fanzz - Sports apparel for fanzz of BYU, BYU-Idaho, and BYU Hawaii. It also features a special Steve Young memorabilia section. - by anon
The Kirtland (anti-) Banking Society - Tendering the finest tinder since 1836. - by Fundor The Magnificent
Smith Tokens and Signs - An endowment while you shop. (Of course we sell them for money!) - by Fundor The Magnificent
Club Brigham - A private club for (caucasian) members. - by Fundor The Magnificent
A New Store - Patterned after the old one where we used to shop. - by Fundor The Magnificent
Raukeeyang Big and Tall - We'll cover your expanse. - by Fundor The Magnificent
Monson's Musings - Children's storybooks for adults. - by Fundor The Magnificent
J. Golden's Joke Shop - Face it. As a Mormon, you need all the laughs you can get. - by Fundor The Magnificent
The Home Despot - Supplies to help a priesthood holder ensure his family's house is in order. - by Fundor The Magnificent
The Pyramid Shoppe - The Pyramid Shoppe sells franchises so you can start your own Pyramid Shoppe. Sell 100 and become a "Diamond Level Distributor." Work in your spare time and earn big money! - by MarkJ
Eddie Bowyer Head and say Yes. - Signs, tokens and covenants sold cheap. - by Jerry
Nordstrom's Blessed - Blessed is best by far. - by Jerry
Victoria's Sacred (Not Secret) Come in and take a peek. - by Jerry
Oh My Heck we are FARMS (Hickory Farms in case that was a stretch) - Get bologna slow smoked and mirrored by FARMS workers in the Provo Valley. - by Jerry
House of Jello - Every Jell-O recipe ever invented.
Fanny's - A Hooters style restaurant. Would have been Joe Smith's favorite eatery.
Danny's Donuts - Official hangout for FARMS-BYU aficianados.
McMorgs Hamburgers - Home of the famous Milkburger - 'cause you ain't ready for the meat!
Kokoabeam Hot Chocolate Shoppe - No Word of Wisdom violations here.
The Bishop's Food Court - If you don't like the food, the Bishop will excommunicate you! - by wine country girl
The Mouse House - Small meals for small families. - by toto
Joe's Tavern - Enjoy our famous pale "A" ale. - by Fundor The Magnificent
White N’ Delightsome (Caucasian-only Mormon restaurant) - Good ol' brethrens' club. - by WordSmith
Salt Lake City (UPI)--The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced today the inauguration of a new program to augment its already successful missionary program.
"We have long been gratified by the selfless service provided by church members over the years, not only among full-time missionaries, but in such church-service activities as extraction and genealogy, volunteer service at church historical sites, and church-service missions in areas such as construction and education," said Presiding Bishop H. David Burton. "In keeping with that spirit, we are pleased to announce a program of Mall Service Missionaries, beginning immediately."
Burton explained that the costs of the two downtown malls in Salt Lake City have risen to unforeseen levels (currently between $1.5 and 2.0 billion), and that members must be prepared to sacrifice of their time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed them to help further this great project in building the kingdom.
"Through a partnership with Zion's Securities, we will be able to ensure near-capacity occupancy in the mall by providing, free of charge, full- and part-time mall service missionaries to staff retail outlets and fast-food franchises. Their much-needed service will lower costs for businesses leasing space and thus better ensure that the church will receive the expected income."
A pilot program has been in place for several months at Provo Towne Center, where bright-eyed missionaries perform such vital work as preparing fast food and selling video games.
"I'm so excited to be here," gushed Amanda Smith of Sioux City, Iowa, sporting a Dillards badge reading "Sister Smith." "People ask me if I was a little disappointed when I received my mission call to sell housewares, but I take the Lord at His word, that there is no difference between the temporal and the spiritual."
"Well, dude, I was kind of bummed at first," said Elder Travis Johnson of Katy, Texas, as he dipped a corn dog into a deep fryer. "I was kind of hoping for someplace like Russia, or something. But you know, I'll go where you want me to go and all that. And besides, I still get to go tracting in the evenings."
Some controversy erupted over the placement of mall service missionaries in businesses that may or may not be in keeping with church standards. "I can tell you that President Packer was not happy with our decision to place sisters in Victoria's Secret, but I assured the brethren that you can be in Victoria's Secret without being of Victoria's Secret."
Burton also suggested that further cost reductions might come through having local wards take turns cleaning the mall each Saturday. "Our members have done more than an adequate job cleaning meetinghouses for several years now. I think they've developed the expertise needed to take on a larger role at the mall. After all, as the Lord said, 'Where much is given, much is required.'"
As a companion to the new Mall Service Mission program, Presiding Bishop H, David Burton announced the Mall Patron Mission today.
“Despite staffing the stores and restaurants of City Creek Center with unpaid volunteer Mall Service Missionaries, customers are staying away in droves, claiming it’s too far to drive from suburbs like Taylorsville and Sandy, or even Sugar House. So, in its infinite wisdom, the First Presidency has authorized the formation of the Mall Patron Mission, whereby faithful members of all ages—particularly in the prime 18-25 and 25-45 demographic groups—are called to shop. As with all other Church missions, the Mall Patron Missionaries will pay their own way.”
just remember what the bible says that god will not be mocked so you might want to rethink what you say and write because it will be on your head. are you willing to risk that - 04/02/2013 - todd
I can't belive the negative comments I read regarding the city creek mall. If you don't like the mall, they you don't. What is wrong with an upscale mall? You don't need to shop there if you rather. So, if you have the money to build an infrastructure, you build a shabby one in the middle of the city? Or you want to build your house that look like garbage in your neighborhood and be proud of it that you are doing this because you want your money spent somewhere else to help others? What's with Haiti and the mall anyway. I bet the church welfare had helped enough to those that are in need every where. And those that are being helped were appreciative. Have you helped at all? just asking. - 03/22/2012 - Celestial Shopper
Wow. some of these post are funny, but you TOTALY don't have a clue. The new mall brings new life into downtown- which was a dead slum... they've cleaned up the area and made it beautiful again...generated tax revenue, brought in new businesses that will improve the area and yet you can not find the good? perhaps you should quit bad mouthing someone who has sucesseded where you have FAILED and start appreciating what is GOOD... because you will always find what you are looking for. - 03/12/2012 - the great NYer
And we are building a 3 billion dollar Mall so Jesus can shop when he returns. 02/16/2010 - by TS Monson
The cost is working out to $666 per person based on an $8 BILLION cost and membership at 12 million?? That is a HOOT! Please continue these updates. - 11/12/2009 OUT of Utard
If all these projects are to be completed by 2011, does that mean the Mayan-projected end of the world in 2012 is accurate? Is that when Jesus comes again? Is that when Do I need to be in an over-priced and shoddily-built Mormon condo to have a front row seat for the second coming? Oh, wait. I'm gay. I'm not welcome unless I pretend to be straight, get married and have lots of babies. - 11/12/2009 - Trusty
The Jesus Mall has already had all the economic impact the GA's intended transferring cleanly old tithing money (with interest) from church coffers into "favorite son" and "family connections" coffers. Transaction complete.
The end result: a mall in downtown nobody will shop at, and a lot of construction workers scrambling for work. The end. - 11/12/2009 - Weeder
Great humor on this site (for those who don't catch on, this is humor). I should check with Microsoft to confirm whether or not spell-check is disabled by default on Mormon computers. 06/13/2009 - Watcher
The church isn't the largest philanthropical organization in the world - the Masons are. You people are funny, getting so worked up about what others say about YOUR church and YOUR prophets. Don't you remember "Sticks and Stones may break your bones, but names can't hurt you."? - 11/17/2008 - EN
Wow. What a load of crap. You people are extremly stupid. Go back to school and finish that 3rd grade education. Come on, you can do it. Crawl back under your rock you dumb-ass. - 11/10/2008 - IKNOWMONEY
The mall is being built on church land. The church isnt building it. The church owns bunches of lands and the investments it makes are so that their eggs are not in one basket. They make investments to protect the church. Any person with half a brain can understand that. It is called the Nordstrom's Mall. Not the Mall of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The Church is very good friends with Nordstrom's because of their stance on modesty and the Modest fashion show they put on. Everything, which should be obvious, will be modest and appropriate. If you dont like the idea, dont use the Mall and stop being Biggots. The Church is governed by a Prophet of the Lord. Be like the people in Noah's time...the work will go forward with or without you. We would love for you to join us or come back. - 11/08/2008 - Tom Sellers
Ya know, you guys are all a bit harsh, and who put you in the position to judge the mormons? I have found from past experience from wirking for them in the Construction buisiness in southern california that they are more than fair when it comes to negotiating, and are very wise with economic, and financial decisions. Most of the things i have read throughout this article are contridictory to the things i know from exprience. Nest time, before you post some damn article bashing them, or anyone else, i would suggest that you think twice about what you are about to say, cause guess what, YOU DONT KNOW EVERYTHIN, SO STOP MAKING IT SEEM AS THOUGH YOU ARE GOD ALMIGHTY KNOW EVERTHING!!!!! - 10/01/2008 - Andred By You All
Oooooo... Bitter, bitter, bitter. - 09/29/2008 - BonerYard
Fact: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints just in case you don't know donates more per capita to good causes such as disaster relief and even to other religions denominations than any other organization like it on the face of the earth. By their fruits ye shall know them. That last sentence is something out of the Bible but I am not sure if you have read that after reading your article. Your wording, spelling, and the article in general show your lack of education. Oops. My apology for saying that as it is not right for me to point out the mote in another's eye when I have a beam in my own. In the mean time, I hope that you can find something more productive to do with your life than focusing on the negative aspect, and hopefully you can see the good in others and what they have done or are trying to do. I will also try to take the same advice even if it takes me a lifetime to get there, and at least we will be trying and hopefully be part of the solution instead of contributing to the world's problems. Best wishes for a happier life. - 06/30/2008 - Hope for a better world
These articles are absolutely mindless. The church would NEVER have missionaries running shopping malls or anything of the sort. Missionaries live under strict rules. They aren't allowed to play video games, or listen to the radio, or watch television or anything of that sort while in the mission field. This article itself discredits this entire website for what it really is, a bunch of made up anti-mormon literature from a crazy anti-mormon. - 04/03/2008 - James Cooper
Editor's Note: Hello James, those comments about missionaries running the Mormon Mall are parody and sarcasm. Please stop going to Church and visit a few comedy clubs to widen your awareness.
WOW, this guy has relatives who he bases about all his "FACTS"/opinions on. The title states "A Nordsrom executive see's the Mormon $1.5 billion mall as a huge fiasco". But who is the executive? Why don't you name them and let them give you a direct quote. Because your relatives here and there have said such and such you now have PROOF, EVIDENCE, FACTS that support your claim??? My, oh my, how that SOMEHOW MAKES IT SO. Many people in those industries have many different opinions. SO WHAT??? That makes your OPINION ONLY SUPPORTED BY THIRD PARTY comments SOMEHOW MORE CORRECT because you cite these OTHER relatives. If they have this as a PROFESSIONAL take on the ISSUE, THEN LET THEM STATE the FACTS, NOT your CONDENSED VERSION/INTERPRETATION of conversations with your relatives and HOW you therefore have MADE THE CORRECT "Observation".
I hate to say it but get a life. If the best you can do is create an item like this and really cite nothing more than comments from your OWN relatives you might as well have made it a BLOG.
Because you say so DOES NOT MAKE IT SO, NO MATTER HOW MANY of your relatives you use to support your POINT OF VIEW.
I live in Santa Monica CA. I just read an article about this construction project and wanted to see more about it. So I did a Google search. UNFORTUNATELY your TIRADE appears in the list as an article not as something more like a BLOG. You might just put your rant on You Tube. That is another place I would expect to find this type of thing, with NO REAL FACTS about MOST of it.
Here in the Los Angeles area there have been so numerous projects that were CONTROVERSIAL such as The Disney Concert Hall, The Kodak Center (Oscars), Century City, Santa Monica Promenade, destruction of The Ambassador Hotel (Robert F Kennedy shooting), and so on. The same in NYC especially about rebuilding on the Twin Towers site. You also mentioned the Bellagio and Las Vegas. SO MANY projects there have ALSO been CONTROVERSIAL, including putting a Roller Coaster on the top of a skyscraper.
SO this is CONTROVERSIAL, it would have been nicer to see this as your opinion with no real citing of factual professional sources, instead of masquerading a a news article.
I guess I have just now come across some of the Internet JUNK. - 03/27/2008 - CA Pilot
How Jesus spends his $1.5 billion. Oh you silly apostates!! Don't you know that the Bible wasn't translated correctly?
When Jesus said feed the poor, he meant from the Food Court. And when he said to clothe the naked, he meant from the GAP!! Geeezzzz! The great and spacious mall is in obedience to God's command!! - 03/20/2008 - No Moniker
I am actually a mormon. I was shocked to some comments about LDS church. done by these idiots.I don't care what is your view about our church.I don't care about your religion.Please stop commenting about my church and our leaders.If you have nothing good to say about my religion.STOP IT!!!! - 03/19/2008 - anon
When I was a kid in the '70's we were encouraged to save our pennies in a paper-mache temple to help pay for the Jordan River Temple. Should we pass out paper-mache malls to our sunbeams? - 03/18/2008 - Elohim
The harder morons like you try to discredit the lds church and its leadership the more foolish you look. The church has been assaulted by smarter, more politicaly connected, more ruthless more savoy people then your little group of loosers. As history bears record the more the persicution of the lords church the stronger, bigger more supported the church becomes. If your life is so meaningless that you have nothing better to do but waist your timeand seal your fate in alignment with the evil one so be it but dont kid your self all your doing is strenghtening the richous and embarrsing your self. - 03/14/2008 - reality check
Dude you and your whole family are lost! Does it hurt to be you, or have you come to grips with it. The combination of low I.Q., the internet, and to much time on your hands looks like it will lead to the all to common meandering pontification seen in those who hate the church. I promise it is hatered for yourself, but if you are right and it's a flop, get off your a@# and run for public office....Im sorry for who ever hurt you but it's not your fault. - 03/09/2008 - Joe
Have you ever heard of spellcheck? How about proper grammar structure? Your article is wrought with stereotypes and quotes people who are far from experts. Obviously Nordstrom thinks highly enough of the project to be a part of it, despite the opinion of your wife's relative. I don't think any city in America would turn down the opportunity to have a private entity invest so much in their city. What other mall in the suburbs will compete? The now defunct Cottonwood Mall? How about the crime riddled Valley Fair? The Salamander Society is a bunch of idiots. Thanks for playing, though. - 03/10/2008 - anon
First off, I hope you were joking about the whole missionary training program thing because that was nothing more than a ridiculous concoction of yours attempting to deride the Mormon image. Second, this entire site is completely opinionated to impose your own biased schema of the Mormons. You know as well as anyone that this propaganda (with a few strategically placed facts)is nothing more than a brainchild playing on your Mormon-hatting whim.
"In short, the church is trying to compensate for it's shrinkage by building another huge masterpiece across from Temple Square. It's not a wise use of the money, but since when has the church ever been wise with it's money."
Oh, is that it? That makes sense. They want to scare all the non-mormons out of Utah. Of course! Why didn't I see that?! Explain to me how exactly an international church with almost 15 million members in over 160 countries worldwide, offering billions in humanitarian, educational, and social aid is able to function so well if its finances are in such disarray? I guess God really does bless his "chosen people".
Now I bet you think I'm some sheltered Mormon boy living in a Mormonized Utah suburb with nothing better to do than inform ignorants of their blatant stupidity. As egregiously unaware you clearly are, I am not from Utah; but the second part is true. However, I am from the Bay Area - that's right, as in the San Francisco Bay Area. As in, that one really liberal city in California. I am not Mormon, but happen to have come to greatly respect them. Because, unlike Seattle, Arizona, or wherever you live, we here in the Bay (and the Golden State in general) have learned to live with each other peacefully; completely not threatened by one another. Gay, Lesbian, Balck, White, Brown, Mormon, Catholic, atheist, and Lizard-worshiper alike share the security of being able to live in harmony with one another. This is why I HATE Utah - because there is an innumerable plethora of insecure Mormon-haters such as yourself. I know you're not from Utah, but you'd fit right in. Mormons over here in Cali have it really nice; in that they can live in peace, without the bitting contempt of anti-mormons spewing at them from every direction. Please do us all a favor and disconnect your computer from the internet right now! - 11/24/2007 - Jason
My aren't we on the bitter side of it all! - 11/20/2007 - Sparky
Your all Morons. Just because you lack the faith, dosent mean you need to try to destroy others faith, or is it because your lacking the confidence in your decision or better yet, in your manhood? Dueche-bags - 10/30/2007 - Judas
Hello, everybody knows that the Mall is a cover-up anyway, they are just building a new landing pad for the Mother-Ship................ Being that they have a new Mother-Ship and that the fueling strips they installed on Crossroads plaza during the 1990's cannot accommodate it's new design......... Plus, with all the new technology that "the Church" hoards from the masses, they have to redesign all the underground tunnels and everything else to make sure the landing pad will be safe and secure from the gentiles, when Christ returns for the Saints.............
Jesus doesn't ride a riksha- he has a full battlestar galactica - 08/23/2007 - smartalec
great site! sounds like the church I came to know and leave. You may also want totake a look at the gaming industry and the church,I did what a joke! One of my favorites is the mission president who had just purchased another two casinos for his returning missionary sons to run! - 08/17/2007 - anon
want planet are you from? You know nothing about the city creek project or the cost of it. you are a retard. - 07/03/2007 - God
Mormons pushing the sales of caffeinated drinks, lingerie, rated R movies and the like on their fellow Mormons...and slave labor! It's brilliant! - 11/09/2006 - CrazyMama
Perhaps this is Hinckley's diabolical plan to destroy the church? Perhaps he is trying to finish the work of Henry Moyle? - 01/15/2006 - anon
And can I use the new lds charge card..you know the one where the 10% is added to each purchase. - 10/05/2006 - JW the Inquizzinator
I think the primary will soon anounce a revamped version of the class,ic "I Hope They Call Me On A Mission."
Words like teach are preach will me replaced with "scrub" and "mop". Mission Field will be replaced with "Food Court." - 10/05/2006 - NoToJoe
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