A former stake president of the old Lynnwood Stake of the Mormon Church, a Marcus Nash, who recently became a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy, explained to me at length, on one occasion, that general authorities of the LDS Church receive a percentage of their professional incomes as a salary (he used salary instead of stipend) on becoming general authorities. Before becoming a full-time GA, Nash was a partner in the Staffrd Frey law firm in Seattle, and the main defending litigator for the Church in all lawsuits arising against the Church from such torts as, for example, sexual abuse condoned by the LDS Church which, by the way, has cost the Mormon Church over 20 million dollars in judgments and settlements.
Nash was pulling down, before taxes, $130,000 per year as a law firm partner. So he entered his job as GA for the Mormon Church at approximately $70,000 per year. Another Mormon associate, a high priest in one of the wards, who I knew pretty well in the Lynnwood Stake, who had known Nash very well many years before I knew him, said that, as a Church leader, "he (Nash) didn't know how to handle money, that his wife handled all his finances." A non-Mormon who was very close to the Nash family stated that "Mrs. Nash wanted the Church calling for her husband much more that Marc did. Mrs. Nash had always wanted to be in the Church limelight, and the more the better."
There are presently about 230 full-time General authorities of the Mormon Church, each of whom receive at least $50,000 per year as salary for his work. In addition, all of the full-time Relief Society Presidency women receive salaries for their church work. The specific amounts are unknown to me. The notion that Mormon tithing money is not used to pay GA salaries is ludicrous. You see, Mormon finances are so corporately entwined that you can't really separate the corporation from the church. The Church financial structure is guardedly veiled and the systematic transfer of funds from corporate accounts to general tithing accounts, to fast offering accounts, to missionary accounts, to salary accounts is done in secrecy. The Church has a Mormon accountant representing an allegedly independent accounting firm stand-up in General Conference to state that "Church finances are in proper order." That's all that is ever said publicly about Church finances and a big mistake. No organization, person, or government entity has ever sued the Church for a detailed accounting of the way Church monies are used. This has allowed the Mormon Church to use its riches for less than honorable purposes, such as quickly calling a political issues moral issues and putting millions of dollars behind getting them defeated, such as the ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment. - 03/08/2009 - Suasponte
The general authorities have never taught that they don't receive moneys as part of their callings and service. President Hinckley discussed his stipends in conferfence a few years ago.
It is the uneducated (in and out of the church) and apparently that includes you, who maintain there is "no paid clergy". You are correct, there is no paid local clergy. There are paid instructors and professsors who have no ecclesiastical authority over a person's religious life and there are general authorities and church staff who receive moneys.
It has been said that many people can simply not leave the church alone...why don't you spend your time off the internet and helping those homeless in the freezing weather you so pity.- Anonymous- 09/10/2004
I read President Packer's biography and the author wrote that when Packer was called as an Assistant to the Twelve in the early 1970s, he was miffed that many employees at Church headquarters made more than he did as a General Authority. I believe the highest paid Church employee currently makes no more than the low 100,000s per year. Even with logical increases to the GA living allowance after the decision to resign from Church owned businesses it seems more reasonable to peg the annual allowance at somewhere around 75,000.- 09/02/2004- Anonymous
Keep in mind, all General Authorities had experienced a level of sucess in various backgrounds where they would have had a greater income potential if they had continued in their careers. I don't think anyone chooses to be a "Top Leader" of the LDS church for the money. Most, if not all, of them are probably taking a pay cut to be "paid clergy".- 07/12/2004-jasonc
(Editor's Note: Let's see....a monthly stipend, travel and clothing expenses..all covered by the Morg, and its sheeps' tithing money.....yeah..that sounds like a pay cut alright...so much for doing the "work of the Lord")
My good Mormon friends miss the point. They claim they have no paid ministers, but they do pay their top people. It makes no difference if it is 1,000 dollars or 1 million dollars; the point is they are paid money. Call it a stipend, money to live, or living allowance makes no difference. I am sure they receive a check and they alone decide what to spend it on just like every other working stiff who is paid for their work.
If they claim they have no paid ministers and then site that as a sign of the true church then by default the act of paying their top "full time workers" would mean they are also not the true church. Again the issue is not who is getting rich but who is getting paid. - 06/20/2004 - nsewanswers
I dont know what you think you are prooving here, yes If you work for the church itself, not on Sunday in callings, you get paid. My brother works for the FHC, the main one in SLC. Is he rolling in it. No, he is a father of 4, has a mortage like alot of normal people. If you are a Seventy, or Of the 12, etc and you spend 9/10's of your time travelling here and there opening up temples, dedicating chapels, speaking at firesides, yeah you would need a little bit to live on and pensions dont always cover airfare! We as church members understand, they worked jobs all their lives, some still do work but do their callings as Apostles too or 70 etc...
You dont get a red cent if its only for your church calling as Primary teacher or Bishop but if you are employed, if the church is your 9-5 then YES you do. What the GA's get is money to live on. They dont squander, they dont hang out in the tropics. Hinckley came to Hawaii when I was there but it was for the 150 Anniversary of the church in the Pacific, NOT to hang out in Waikiki. No we arent dirt poor as a church, the Lord blesses us for paying tithing- thats why and honest living. (Those who live it) Nothing more than that.We arent all rich though- Rich in the Yucatan? Africa? where members are growing, I dont think so! - 03/27/2004 - Secretary to the Corporation of the President
Dear friends...Read the bio of Pope John Paul II a man that MO's deride....for the riches of Rome! Well I want to tell you that the pope lives a very simple, meager lifestyle....the papal apartment is sparse and in fact so plain that it is disgusting...how do I know???
I have a close friend who was in it... so really...I think Mr. Hinkley lives far higher on the hog as does the Holy Father. Talk about humble and living as Christ...it is him...not the PROFIT,SEER AND REVELATOR.. WHAT A BUNCH OF HORSESHIT - 08/22/2003 - anon
This is all very interesting information, and I'm glad people like you are bold enough to publish it - it's something that desperately needs to be done. It is a great irony that in a church that claims to have no paid clergy, there are so many who draw stipends as a result of their church service. This makes sense when you're talking about someone like an apostle or prophet, who works full time in the ministry without another source of income, but is particularly disturbing in the case of seminary teachers, BYU religion professors, etc... Thank you!
A couple questions:
At the top of this page, you write that "the church does make a public disclosure of its finances." Assuming you're correct in this assertion, why don't you actually refer to the public disclosures, rather than heresay from unconfirmed sources? Citations to your sources would be greatly appreciated, both here and elsewhere on your site. Without them, it looks like you're just bitter , obsessed with the church and making big exaggerations that may or may not be based on any reliable source (which I'm sure is not the case).
Also, the former church auditor above gives precise figures for the "salaries" of various church leaders. I would be interested to know what expenses are paid for by those "salaries." For example, is travel paid for out of that amount? Because GBH et. al. are not like CEOs of corporations, but rather are church leaders, the money they receive is not a "salary." Thus, the funds may be commensurate with their operating expenses as church leaders. I would be very interested to see how the accounting actually works, rather than just a few 'factoids' from an obviously disgruntled former employee, since I've never noticed the church leaders to be particularly conspicuous consumers. Their suits aren't even good ones, and it's not like they're wearing Bruno Magli shoes. You'd think someone pulling down that kind of cash could afford some nice kicks.
The fact that the prophet's office is nicely appointed with hardwood floors, etc... should not be confused with his salary or personal expenses. It's his office, remember, not his house, so you really can't say that it makes him 'rich' any more than you can say that someone with an IT job is rich because of the sweet computer network at his office.
As for the person who worked at Zion's bank and witnessed Sister Hunter's apparent credit fiasco, it is truly appalling that the church would bail an old woman out like that. Would you mind adding the rest of the story, which I'm sure is even more torrid? I'm referring to whatever subsequent measures the church may have made to recover the money from her, have the furniture returned, etc... I don't have any idea what was done, and I think it'd be foolish to assume that the church did the "right thing," so I'd like to know what happened next. Did she end up living with DI furniture for the rest of her life? I can only guess.
I paid 10% of my tiny salary for years before I started figuring this stuff out. It's appalling. Just so they can have marble in their bathroom and multi-million dollar houses on the east side. I heard they just got a new car for them to ride in while they're in Utah, too - a custom made Maybach. Who do they think they're fooling? - 08/10/2003 - exmo666
That last bit there is rather interesting. Starving members across the globe and he sits tight with his money and posessions.
With all the information that people claim to know about, how come it's not catching on into the news media. And why isn't the church being made to be forced to disclose their business practices?
For any church to make money off the backs of it's members sweat is wrong. I give my money to myself and if God has a problem with that, that's just too damn bad! **If I believed in God in the first place.** - 06/23/2003 - from jg
Over the years I have talked to more than a few Mormons about the issue of compensation for its top leaders.
The conversation goes something like this.
LDS member: We do not have any paid ministers because the gospel is free
My response: I do not know any church with paid ministers who charge for the gospel and besides LDS does pay its full-time officials on a national level. They only do not pay the local workers.
LDS member: No they don't
My response: Actually Hinckley is paid a salary, benefits, car, condo and other compensations. And the apostles and 70 draw a salary as well. Some claim Hinckley draws a salary of close to 500,000.
LDS member: That's a lie
My response: How do you know, the church does make a public disclosure of its finances. So you have no idea if it is true or not. If it is not true then how do full time LDS workers support themselves and their families? Are they all wealthy?
LDS member: No they are not. They are given living expenses not a salary?
My response: Living expenses? Isn't that what a salary is for, to support someone so they can live? How is that different from a paid minister who receives support from his congregation?
LDS member: But they don't get rich.
My response: But you told me they don't receive a salary and now you are saying they do, but it is a small one. How do you know how small or large it is since it is kept a secret? For all you know Hinckley could be making 500,000.
LDS member: If he worked as a CEO of a major corporation the size of LDS, he would make millions so whatever he is paid it is small compared to what he could make.
My response: That is true, but he does not work for a corporation, he works for a group that claims they have no paid ministers because that is a sign of the true church and puts down churches that do have paid ministers. Doesn't that seem sort of hypocritical when they do the same thing?
LDS member: You are just a jealous anti who lies and tries to twist what I am saying. Good bye. I know the church is true and that we have a living prophet?
Mar. 6, 2003 (Salt Lake City-AP) -- Several general authorities of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints won't travel to Salt Lake City next month for the church's biannual conference because of "potential uncertainties" in the world.
Church representatives based throughout the world won't travel to Salt Lake for the April conference and the accompanying training sessions, church spokesman Dale Bills said.
The church will conduct training through satellite technology instead.
The church doesn't want all its leaders to be in Salt Lake City at the same time when uncertainties in the possible war with Iraq and with terrorism could disrupt travel and make it difficult for them to return to their service in foreign lands.
Why wasn't this same restrictions used during the 1991 Gulf War? Or after 9/11? There was just as much concern over terrorism, travel delays, etc. Could it be that the "cost" of having so many "General Assholeorties" traveling is of the greatest concern. First a rif (Reduction in force of 600), then delays in construction projects, now limiting the number of GA's going to the semi-anal conference, WOW what's next, the reintroduction of budget offerings?
The question is not whether Gordo is in the position of a "CEO" of a major corporation, but whether he is compentent and how he was put into the position. I submit the following:
Most Fortune 500 CEOs have advanced educational degrees, have gone to elite "Ivy" schools, have demonstrated skills, knowledge and abilities, and have "earned" the faith and trust of the board of directors (BOD) and shareholders of the corporation.
CEOs who do not perform, understand that they can be replaced, and therefore are accountable to the BOD, shareholders, employees and customers of the corporation.
CEOs of major corporations must continually improve the status of the company and enhance shareholder "wealth".
Now with this in mind, lets look are Gordo's performance as a CEO
1. $250 Million spent of a building that is used twice a year. It would have been better to refurbish the Marriot center and bus the "special ones" to the building for conference twice a year. The renovation would have cost at most $40 Million, and the utilization would have been higher. Not a good return on investment.
2. "Active" supportive membership continues to decline. The product the corporation is selling is old, non functioning and difficult the use. The practicle advice "teachings" of the 1920's don't address the needs of the current membership. The product should address financial management (other than to say live within your means, because giving away 10% does not help this premiss), address social changes (other than to push a theocray that cannot compete with the U.S. government and its constitution), etc.
3. During his reign as CEO, he has embarrassed us in front of the world. He doesn't even understand the past and present doctrine of the corporation. When you say on national TV that you don't believe polygamy is doctrinal, you are saying your eduction level is less than any seminary student or sunday school child.
4. His selection as CEO is based on a corrupt system of advancement by seniority and not skill, knowledge and ability. Hell all he has done is live longer that the rest of his competition. My grandmother is older than he is and one hundred times smarter.
5. His prophetic calling has demonstrated a pathic command of the real world. He fights for liquor laws that will be overturned in a "real" court of law and fells betrayed when it happens. He rules over a small community the bears not sway on the rest of the world, (make mondays special by not scheduling activities outside the home, what non-sense, those activities could be family ehnancing and relationship building). He leads the charge for maintaining a obsolete cause such as isolation from criticism (main street plaza) and ignores the needs of the poor, uneducated, lonely, and the like. What special places are LDS chapels that they cannot be used to shelter the homeless when the outside temperature is -10 degress F and they just need a place to stay the night. It seems to me that Gordo as the "prophet" of the world would make the "priest's grain" available to the needy.
Well I could go on, but suffice if to say "Gordo" is just an old man who sits on a bureaucracy that he cannot control or change. His leadership style is disappointing and his character is questionalbe at best. Well, you get what you pay for.
If GBH was president, CEO, and chairman of a more "traditional" corporation the size of the Morg, his salary would be somewhere in the millions. The first presidency and apostles (board of directors) would be making bank, too, as would the GA's (senior level management). Mid-level managers, such as bishops and stake presidents, wouldn't make squat and would be overworked.
So what's the big deal? They're actually getting underpaid.
Oh, that's right, the church claims that everyone works for free..... forgot about that for a second.... they may be getting underpaid but they're still PAID. It would be preposterous to expect the Church NOT to pay them.
What I'm trying to say is, nobody thinks less of a church that has a paid ministry. In fact, having people dedicated and trained full-time for The Cause actually lends more to its credibility. What the Church needs to understand isn't that people have issues with the senior management drawing salaries, but the fact that they lie about it. - 12/27/2002 - from St. Patrick
It sure gives one incentive to live worthily to become a GA, doesn't it - 10/22/2002 - anon
I know that 7 years ago GBH had a salary of $500,000 plus, an audited and unlimited charge card, and lived in an $800,000 dollar condo with servants. He also rides in a private Huntsman jet which I'll bet that Huntsman writes off as tithing donation. Can you imagine if every Mormon bishop rode in a fancy car donated by some ward member. The top leaders live a luxurious (but rigorous) life of luxury on the shoulders of lay Mormons who receive no or little monetary pay. There is no proof of what I say that easily obtainable, they are way to smart for that.
I can verify Flew The Coop's salary facts. I worked at Zions Bank Corporation for two years with access to confidential bank records. I have personally seen the activity in Hinckley's account. I also saw his credit card records. What Flew The Coop said about salary and credit card is true.
At the time I was a True Believing Mormon and had a hard time with what I learned. For example, after Howard W. Hunter died, his wife charged up thousands of dollars on his card to buy all kinds of expensive furniture, then cut up the cards. She refused to pay the balance, so we sent the bill to the church offices. They paid it with no questions asked. I couldn't help see my tithing money in the form of new furniture for a rich old prophet's wife.
Based on a conversation I had with a close friend who is an internal auditor for the church, the figures presented here reasonably reflect actual salaries paid. It should be remembered that in the 1990's the church began restricting its presiding authorities from serving in significant business functions(i.e, board of directors for church owned operations, etc.) This decision precluded additional sources of income for general authorities. Apparently salary increases (in the same time frame) correlate with this mandate. - 07/27/2002 - anon
The alleged former auditor's response seems ludicrous on its face. The typos are embarrassing for an alleged accountant. And he clearly has no clue what sort of "perts" (sic) the Pope and Cardinals enjoy.... I think it is bogus. - 05/12/2002 - anon
The Mormon Church claiming that they have an unpaid ministry because ward and stake leaders are not paid is like a polygamist claming to be celebate because he hasn't made it with every women in town. It would be like Roger Penske claiming that he had no race cars because the vast majority of his vehicle fleet is rental trucks. Is it necessary to say "Liars" at this point? - 05/05/2002 - Pat McKitrick
My uncle is in the First Quourm of the Seventy. He does not make $75,000 a year. He makes more like $48,000. All of the perks the writer alluded to are partially true. They get great health insurance, some retirement, and free tickets to college games. The do not own a Sattellite system. They do have a couple of limosines. GBH is old and doesn't drive anymore. He also has very tight security.I asked my Aunt if her life was better or worse since my Uncle was called to be a GA. He made more money as an attorney, and they sold a couple of business because of his extensive travel schedule. She say's she has no regrets, but they are not getting rich either. Just some information. - 03/05/2002 - K from the recovery bulletin board
I am a network engineer and I found that the story below ($425,000 a year - church auditor claims) is not correct. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints does not have their own satellite system. They lease network bandwidth from the company I work for Equant Network Services. Many people use our network, AOL, Boeing, Ford and almost all the airlines as well as hundreds of overseas companies. We are a low cost service as we are one of the largest They tend to use our lower grade services to connect their remote locations. They use X25 which is known for its low cost. If they really wanted to spend big bucks they could use frame Relay or SNA. It might cross a satellite for some locations overseas but so do the tiniest travel agent customers that we serve. If this accountant is saying he has seen paperwork for such a private network I suggest he is not telling the truth of ever working there. He should have stuck to the accounting stories and stayed away from the networks. - 02/17/2002 - anon
APOSTATE PAY - Since leaving the Morg (Mormon Church), my pay has nearly doubled. - email@example.com
(This email was forwarded to The Foyer for posting by a source wishing to remain anonymous. You be the judge of its veracity.)
Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 3:37 PM
Subject: Church Salaries
I used to work as a FULL TIME Church auditor. The First Presidency pull down salaries of $425,000 per year, each, and also full health insurance, life insurance, and other PERTS, including a brand new chauffered limousine, and of course, all expenses paid on Church business. President Hinckley has an office that takes up nearly half of one of the Church office building floors, complete with expensive hardwoods, marble in the sinks and all of the other amenities that would say you were in the Presence of the Pope and NOT in the presence of a humble apostle of the Lord.
Apostles pull down $125,000 per year in salary, and of course, the same benefits as the FIRST Presidency.
Seventies are at $72,000 per year in salary, plus benefits.
Now, some of these men refuse to accept any salary from the Church, as they are independently wealthy, having acquired their own wealth in their own businesses. But for the most part, that is not the case.
Now, I actually audited Church records up on the 16th Floor of the Church auditing department, but never actually audited these records. I was just told about them.
Too, interesting, is that the Church has its own satellite system which cost several million dollars to build and install in the sky, to facillitate Church operations, so that Church leaders can "centralize" operations and communicate with other operations all over the world. It is high-tech, big business operations all the way. I am a CPA. I was there. I was part of the Internal Auditing Staff when I was there, and I went to Mexico and Brazil and Guatemala, in addition to working on the BYU audit. And I had fun and also, I reviewed the Church's comprehensive financial statements, tying the schedules together which I kept locked in my desk--multi-colored sheets, each set of schedules referring to some department or division of the Corporation of the Presidency and its subsidiaries and other profit-making entitities which were audited by other accounting firms.
There are only 8 of them produced... 4 for the apostles (only certain apostles are allowed to see these Financial Statements), one for the auditing department and three for the Presiding Bishop's Office, for the Presiding Bishop and each of his Counselors.
I worked there! Yes, it has been a long time and when I tried to go back, I was advised NOT to even try, as "things had changed" and when I found out how they had changed under Pres. Hinckley, I was appalled and flabbergasted, and agreed. I would not have lasted in the "new" Church Auditing Department one week... I am just too blunt and honest with what I would find there....
I studied the history of the church. I am shocked as to what I have found. As pertaining to tithing, in the early history of the church, church presidents, apostles, stake presidents, and bishops, received salaries from members who paid tithing. Later on in church history, local leaders stop receiving pay for their ministry. It is extremely disappointing to me to see church leaders making a living off the money I use to pay to the church. I use to believe that it was used for wise purposes, but soon learned it is used to support a 30 billion dollar corporation and its goal for wealth and power. - 05/20/2013 - *#$%#%^
You have no sources and make many spelling errors. You definitely have no idea what you are talking about and probably just hold a grudge. - 05/19/2013 - Dave
The lds church is the only church on this earth that their clergy dont get paid. . The word should be freely given to everyone, then having a basket passed around and having people obligated to put money in it. Who does that. - 05/18/2013 - anon
100% of this financial content (positive or negative) is speculation, conjecture, or fabrication unless one of the writers has completed a statistically valid and objective audit on the church's finances and operations. Objective is the key word here, and I speaking about the financial content. I AM an auditor, with emphasis in the forensic discipline (multinational annual expenditures > $20B), but have done countless field audits as well, and know how it is done. It is very easy to speculate, spin conspiracy theories, and make rapid conclusions depending upon one's already established opinion. It is obvious which are for and which are against the the LDS church from these posts. Truth is all that interests me, those who make conclusions without unbiased evidence are not credible. Ultimately, the purpose of these negative posts is not to present truth, but to create doubt and perceived credibility issues with the LDS church - very common for a multitude of issues. All one has to do is watch/read CNN, FOX, MSNBC, Washington Post, NY Times, etc. to obtain the same on nearly any controversial issue. Yawn... (why did I waste my time reading this blog!) - 04/29/2013 - KB
I am torn with the LDS church saying they do not have paid ministers'. This is an incorrect statement. Members do not understand and are afraid to ask the question. It is disturbing to see what is going on behind the curtain. They no doubt put in a lot of time. So do all member's especially Bishop's and Stake President's so why aren't they paid a stipend for the 40-60 hours a week they serve? Where is the visibility members deserve? - 03/17/2013 - anon
Who knows if this info is real or not but what makes me upset, It is to see those big chapels from the LDS empty most of the time and use only for some hours of the week when there is so much need for social programs or education besides homeless people. It is just a dis crease no to say those expensive buildings. - 01/23/2013 - anon
I consider myself an active member of the CJCLDS. It is a privilege to pay tithing and my life has been blessed by doing so. I think the blessing is a natural consequence of prioritizing and budgeting funds - it is my belief that for the most part that is how the Lord blesses us.
I do believe that man is subject to temptation regardless of his name, occupation or church calling. I sustain the Brethren in whatever they decide as a quorum in reporting finances but it would be my own uniformed opinion that the risks of being more transparent about church finances would not only be a protection to the brethren against human tendancies but would also be enlightening to the members. Each person has a vice that is their own challenge be it desire for power, money or chastity problems. I am sure there have been errors in all these areas by an occasional leader. Therefore I think that a smart leader puts the same protective mechanisms in place for themselves that they teach us to and thats why I would like to see a complete openess on finances. We are not a corporation in competition with others. Be that all that it is, the bottom line is that God lives and Jesus is the Christ and I am reassured by the scriptures that in the end they will judge us all leader and follower alike.
PS - I hope they quit allowing church donations as tax deductions and then what I pay will truly be out of love and conviction. - 12/05/2012 - anon
The LDS church either is or is not what it claims to be. If it is, then its priesthood will work, if it is not then the priesthood will not work. As with any group or any business, the people who have left that group or business will be the one who work the hardest to prove it wrong. Why, because they want to prove themselves right. All churches have some truths within them but where do they get their authority. are there untruths within the LDS church, of course there is, WHY because there are people within the church and no one is perfect. Truths is not the question for me but authority is the question. If the LDS church has the authority from God then it is real and the priesthood will work. If not it will not work.
The people here on earth today will not do any better than Jesus Christ did when he was here on earth teaching his very own gospel. A few accepted but most rejected. Enough people rejected Him to get Him crucified. If you want to know if this priesthood is real then try it. If you try it with a sincere heart, then it will work. Now isn't that simple. - 04/08/2012 - Simplified
well the genral athoritys and the prophet make a lot of money.they get up and tell us the church is true but they dont tell you in there hidden under ground box they have the truth and it would set you free..but they cant aford to do that..cause they wouldnt get your money if you new that joe lied and all the rest kept it going making them molti billionares. - 04/08/2012 - boyd kkk packer
I'm Turkish man and I have been working for LDS charity last ten years as a interpreter here in Turkey. At the same time I was church leader in last 6 years. After ten years me and other two interpreters from different cities wanted our salaries. They told us "your treasure in heaven" and when we did ask again we been fired from job and excommunicated from church.
And of course they start a campaign against to us. Now we sued LDS charity and LDS Church. We ask our ten years salary and ten years insurance (in Turkey employer pay employment's insurance ). In the court they lied and they said "there are another LDS church and LDS charity in Utah these guys working for others. We dont know them.).
We are going to show to judge and the public prosecutor about 40,000 pictures, videos, news, two books chapters which pointed and targeted us. Thousands of Internet news, or web pages which pointed and targeted us (of course of we are in a Muslim country). Personly, I have so much documents which are showing I have been working for LDS charity. I only wonder how come Mormon Church lies so easily for money. - 03/21/2012 - german35
I'm a convert of more than 30 years and have no problem paying tithing to the church and know GAs receive money. However, the church should be totally open about what GAs receive as well as where all the other money goes. The lack of transparency is very troubling and is contrary to the principles of honesty and integrity that the church claims to follow. Secrecy and total lack of disclosure, especially when it comes to member's hard-earned tithing contributions, borders on scandalous and does not reflect well on the church. - 03/11/2010 - kt
oh my!!! who knows how much they get paid...and who cares!!!...it doesn't take away the fact that we know that they are true apostles of the Lord. They are wonderful men with outstanding countenances and speak the word of the Lord. they know that their money won't go with them after this life. that is why they don't go around bosting about it. they aren't keeping it hidden so people don't know. only prideful people do that with their money. - 04/03/2009 - anonymous
My family has been in the Church since Joseph Smith was in Ohio - they joined there - so, I feel sort of sorry that this is an issue. I have done my homework and chose to leave - I don't take this lightly so....
I think the point is this - they are full-time, paid employees. They cannot claim that they do not have ANY paid clergy. I don't think it really matters what they would be making if they weren't doing what they are doing. That's a rediculous martyr attitude - look at me - I'm so special - I only make slightly more than upper-middle-class income. I COULD be making more. pff.
That said, there ARE other religions out there that do not pay a salary to their so-called clergy.
The governing body (and other full time volunteers) of Jehovah's Witnesses each get a hotel-style bedroom (bed, dresser, closet, bathroom) and they all share lunch with the rest of the servants at the headquarters in Brooklyn, NY - in a cafeteria. They share the cleanup duties. Recently, one of the members of the governing body passed away leaving behind just 1 medium sized cardboard box of possessions.
Any other perks? $100.00 per month allowance for clothing or anything else they choose to spend it on. That's $1,200 per YEAR. If my research is correct, that is $30 less per month than an LDS missionary. Anything else must be provided by their families. This goes for the full-time missionaries as well. They get $100.00 per month.
So, if you want to consider an LDS missionary a salaried employee, I guess you could say that full time servants of Jehovah's Witnesses are salaried as well. *rolleyes*
They do not travel around like celebrities or broadcast their faces all over the world. They are servants. Their identities are not important. So, the issue of travel expenses does not come up. If they have to travel, they have to ask for help from family or friends.
Where does all this big cash come from? Not sales of religious literature or clothing: Voluntary, anonymous donations. Not tithing. Donations. No collections are taken - ever. If someone wanted to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses their entire life without ever giving a penny, they could do so. Everything published by the organization is 100% free of charge so, they would still get all the literature they needed, books, videos, tracts, etc. and no-one would ever know because donations are personal and a private matter.
Somehow, with that fact, the organization continues to thrive.
My point? I am sick of the LDS Church saying they are the only ones that don't pay their "clergy" when they obviously do - in excess - and when there is another organization out there that "pays" their "clergy" less than the LDS church pays its own missionaries!
One may not agree with their teachings but, you have to use logic here.
BTW - Jehovah's Witnesses give an audit presentation at 1 meeting per month where the details of each congregations spending are gone over right there in front of everyone: donations, bill payments, and what the balance is in the account. Anyone who wants to know the current financial status of their congregation can go to the secretary at any time and request it. If you want to know the ENTIRE organizations financial status, just write to the organization and you will get a financial statement copy. - 10/02/2009 - Kate
This page is a great example of strawman arguements! Keep up the entertainment! 09/03/2009 - HaHaHa
You guys are nuts! I have a close family member who is a GA, member of the 70. He gets paid nothing. - 02/20/2009 - doc
With respect to salaries, I've heard:
President of the Church - $1M
Counselors to the President - $500K
Apostles - $250K.
As mentioned above, Church leaders needed to resign from positions as directors of companies. However, this was likely in part due to positions on Church owned businesses.
Part of post-Enron audit procedures is to analyze an organizations susceptibility to fraud. Fraud typically occurs when employees are given the opportunity and feel underpaid and therefore entitled to the funds. If Church leaders were not given compensation for their management and director responsibilities, this would be an audit deficiency. It probably wouldn't warrant a qualified audit opinion, but it would cause additional procedures to be triggered.
We don't know what they are paid, nor do we know what they do with the money after they receive it. They may donate it right back to the church.
With respect to "benefits" such as housing: The Church probably bought the property that houses its leaders long ago. Downtown property fair market values are high, but that does not mean the housing is lavish. Since the Church does not pay property tax, the cost to maintain the property is minimal and would likely be more than offset by travel costs were leaders required to commute in. - - 03/08/2009 - Auditor
I have been a member of the LDS Church for 20 years. I Have acted to different callings in the Church voluntarily after being called by our Bishop to serve without any Salary nor Allowance. And I know it is the right thing to do service to others without pay as commanded by GOD. GOD commanded us to preach the GOSPEL without asking any money. All other churches in the world always have a paid pastors and church leaders while the mormon church don't have such things as alowance, they give ecclesiastical and temporal services for free as what Jesus Christ Did. All Leaders of The MOrmon church has their own job or buisness to earn their living and that is a humble deed!!,Should'nt all churches should be like that??!!.
Regarding our misionaries alowance, Phopets and apostles allowances...it came from their own pocket and not from the Tithing of other members. As what i have learned from the Institute of the MOrnon, which is very valid,..members of the church who will becalled to a higher service or office will be advice to save money to be used for their term of services either 2 years or 3 years from missionaries up to Prophet, and the church will help them fill-up any shortage.
The Earth is not yet renewd nor Celestialized because second coming is not yet at hand,...so BASICALLY AND CLEARLY THAT...the Earth is under the possesion of satan,,,which is temporal and mortal. It also means that HE can lure the pride belief, and judgement of men according to his will by the greediness for money.
Satan will lure man to critizied the church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day saints because it is the Only True Church upon the Face of the EArth,...AND I TESTIFY TO THAT WITH ALL MY FAITH!.
The person on the Side of Jesus Christ never critizied other churches and their doings just like what the mormon church...,....
So if you critizied other church it means that you are not on the side of Jesus Christ!!....so ,..if you are not on the faihfull side of Jesus Christ;....to whose side do you belong?...to SATAN?!!!!aske your self..
I urge you to go to your private room,..kneel down and ask GOD for forgivness of your sins for critisizing HIS True Church and then ask for wisdom and guidance.!!....don't asked for gossip from your neibors or to anyone!!...ask GOD Directly...and if you are faihfull and humble to your questioning,...then HE might answer you with grace!..
And for those who has been a member of the church and critizE it,...REPENT....!!FOR YOU ARE MAKING A PERSONAL APOSTACY TO GOD!! - 03/07/2009 - josh09
And did Hinckley take that expensive office with him when he died? Did his condo go to his kids? Did it get sold off as an estate? NO! It all belongs to the church. That is the concept of Consecration that most on this board don't seem to understand. The Lord says never mind the daily grind because he provides. I see the General Authorities in that role. The Lord provides for them but in the end those provisions belong to the Church and are treated that way by the leaders. - 01/13/2009 - anon
I have faith in the leaders of the LDS church. I'm sure some receive funds for travel expenditures, etc. And even if the amounts suggested are true,ie $400,000, which is quite doubtful, I personally have no problem with it. I don't see the leaders of the LDS church scamming their members out of money. I know my tithing, fast offerings and missionary donations go exactly where they are needed and intended. I know without a shadow of a doubt that leaders of the LDS church will never fall into scandals and allegations of taking funds from the church and sqandering on material things as Richard Roberts, son of Oral Roberts, which is in the millions of dollars used to purchase clothes, expensive trips, cell phone payments, etc. I know I do not need to worry that the church will cover up inappropiate sex with young boys as the Vatican has for years. I know that the teaching of the LDS church are true. I know that the leaders of the church "priority" is to help us prepare to return to our heavenly father. I know that the holy ghost bears witness of that to me. - 12/20/2008 - M
There are so many factors in a story like this. I am sorry to say that anyone lost enough to believe in claims as these needs to remember the most important part.. Pray to our father in heaven about it. Ask him where his truth is. Ask him if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints is his Church or not. He will answer.
1st. It is against the law to write things like what has been written here without legal information to back it up. It is called Libal. it is the written form of Slander. Be careful with what you write
2nd off, even if they were paid, and these people said they werent, then their mistakes do not mean that the church is not true. Church is based on 3 things as states in Ephesians. 1. Apostles 2. Prophets 3. Doctrine, which I might ad that every single sliver of Doctrine in the Church is stated in the Bible including the word of Wisdom. Christ himself said it was an abomination to drink alcohol for instance.
3rd off, have you ever heard of the Law of Consecration? You must know that most Apostles have companies that are still rolling in the dough even though they do not manage them. All money they make is donated to the church, and seeing as how the same tie is worn by many of the apostles even in one movie (such as the tie President Hinkley and President Faust wore in Special Witnesses of Christ), id say they share most of their stuff.
4th it was mentioned that the prophet has a personal jet that was DONATED to him. That it was probably a tithing write off. Anyone who wants to give the Prophet a jet can do what he wants, but you had better see first if it was a tithing write off or not, because he has givin a lot more to the church. on top of that, almost everything is GIVEN to the apostles... wow.. given... amazing... that would mean if they were getting all this money, Where on earth does it go to if then are given almost everything? Oh yeah... they build temples and churches and give tons of humanitarian help all over the world. After all, when the problems in New Orleans happened, they said that the 2 churches that helped the most were the mormon and the Church of Jesus Chirst of latter day Saints... oh wait, they are the same two, how much more help did they church give than any other organization?? and where did all that money come from???
Again, There are so many factors in a story like this. I am sorry to say that anyone lost enough to believe in claims as these needs to remember the most important part.. Pray to our father in heaven about it. Ask him where his truth is. Ask him if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints is his Church. He will. - 02/15/2008 - Charles
I have no personal interest in what you say, but I hope you understand that persuasive writing without sources of information is not persuasive. You write well, but give no bac up sources. Your need to fix that. It's a big problem. - 03/06/2007 - George
one added benefit of receiving a living allowance is that you are exempt from tithing on that amount, similar to missionaries. You are full-time church service and are expected to pay fast offerings on the allowance, similar to missionaries, but that's it. If the system works similar to missionaries allowances, a lump sum is deposited monthly in a bank account, on which one can draw or not. Medical and other expenses are not part of the allowance nor are deducted from it. GAs can probably return unused funds to the Church by the end of the year to avoid tax liability on that portion. Plus, clergy are allowed a larger portion of their income to be considered tax-exempt in the U.S. So, the Church doesn't need to fork over large salaries given the above to take care of the GAs. Imagine an allowance of 60,000 given the above conditions and the other perks GAs get. Their dollars go a lot farther than the rest of us. - 02/28/2006 - anon
Good information. A close friend of mine is a auditor for the church. The claim on salaries is accurate. My friend however didn't comment on office size or other perks that Hinckley and others might enjoy.
From a business viewpoint, Hinckley is underpaid. Most CEOs with that type of responsibility would be earning 3-5 million per year plus the purhase of a 2-3 million dollar house. However, it does seem strange that a "prophet of God" would be earning any money from the church and many of our African and atin American brothers and sisters are literally trying to find food to stay alive. - 06/09/2001 - Gary of the bulletin board
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