You will feel much relief as you relegate your rant to the archives of virtual reality here. Enter you rant in the text box at the bottom of this page.

I HATE you.

And you are the only person I hate.

I have given this a lot of thought for many years, and have decided there is no escaping it. Gordon Hinckley told his church membership hundreds of times that he LOVED you, and that he could not wait to meet you and throw his arms around you. My feeling is quite different.

If I ever see you, in any context, I will harm you in any way I can. I will rip off your arms and legs. I will cut your face until there is nothing left but a hole. I push your privates into a paper shredder. I will fill your intestines with nails.

In fact, if the stories you told are true, and all will ressurect, please be advised that I will be happy to spend all eternity punching you in the testicles.

I hate you for justifying your sex addiction as if it was the word of God

I hate you because you lied over and over again about the source of the Book of Mormon, which you wrote in order to control weak minded people.

I hate you because you created a religion that worships you and no one else.

I hate you because you excommunicated anyone who challenged your authority.

I hate you because you pretended to love democracy while establishing tyrrany.

I hate you because my mother has contracted many psychological illnesses attempting to cope wih the bullshit expectations you said she had to live up to.

I hate you because you want people to give money to your church instead of the poor.

I hate you because you are arrogant, self-righteous, and self-serving, and instead of recognizing these as shortcomings, you claim they are because you are god's special boy.

I hate you because you incorporated disgusting death oaths and symbols into what was supposed to be my wedding.

And most of all, I hate you because your very memory threatens to rob me of my closest friendships, and even my dear wife.

I would not presume to call you anti-Christ, evil, or anything but a man who was massively fucked up. God may love you. Gordon Hinckley and Thomas Monson may have wet dreams about you. But I hate you. I fucking hate everything I have ever learned about you. If I ever see you, I will pay you back for the burdens you have inflicted on those I love.

And no cry of "Lord my God" will save you.

Sending Back The Telescope

Posted by request (from my personal blog)...

The Heaven's Gate cult that committed suicide in San Diego in 1997 believed that a spaceship was traveling in the tail of the Hale-Bopp comet, and that they would be transferred to the craft by committing suicide when the comet was near Earth. Before the mass suicide, they purchased an expensive telescope in order to see the craft within the comet's tail. When they were unable to spot the spaceship, they sent the telescope back claiming that it was defective. In other words, their belief in the spaceship trumped all rational evaluation, they were willing to suspend all critical thinking skills in favor of their religious doctrine, and their faith was deemed more honest and true than any and all scientific evidence to the contrary.

In a sense, this has to be the single most dangerous message that religion - not just cults - teach their members: if the telescope doesn't tell you what WE tell you, send it back. It's defective.

In spite of the awareness of the dangers of faith and religious zeal that Americans have gained since 9/11, we seem to be unwilling to acknowledge the extent to which our own pious beliefs lead us down dark alleys, and choose instead to believe that dangerous levels of zealotry only occur in other people's religions on the other side of the world where most Americans can't even identify continents, much less countries.

It would seem that it is almost impossible to have a civil, rational discussion about religion in America. Far too many participants in such discourse consider themselves to be possessed of such faith that they are willing to ignore or excuse problems in the doctrine or the religious culture that would be obvious to an impartial observer.

Place such a person into an otherwise civil discussion about religion, and civility ceases to exist. Believing that you are in possession of complete, unquestionably accurate information about God, his plans for you, and the horrible punishments that await those who don't believe the same things as you do enable the faithful to have the most condescending, most hostile, most downright hateful attitudes toward their fellow man. These attitudes and the behaviors they inspire are rationalized by a belief that God favors some people more than others, and ultimately doesn't really give a shit about people who are not members of one specific religion.

Oh wait, that's not true. He still loves them. They just don't get the same benefits as the "chosen ones."

For decades I've been asking tough questions about the religion that I was raised in. As I sought answers, I continually found myself hitting a wall. The answers either weren't there, weren't spiritually satisfying, didn't coincide with other aspects of the doctrine, were in direct conflict with the behaviors of a good portion of the membership, ignored widely accepted scientific and historical facts, or went against personal experience and observation. Upon reaching any of the above impasses, the advice I was given was, without exception, to send back the telescope.

There's a point where you just can't be told that anymore, and I had reached it.

For years, I had attempted to avoid rocking the boat within my family, biting my lip and playing along while they participated in (and expected me to participate in) the various rituals of our religion. But I had always felt dishonest about it. I was compromising my personal integrity by pretending to be someone who professed to believe in something that had never felt true to me. And, contrary to the expectations of the culture, the more I researched and explored and participated in the religion, the less I found myself able to accept it.

I woke up one Sunday morning and realized that that was it. I was done. I wasn't going to pretend anymore, I wasn't going to participate anymore. I had had it, and I was through, and I wasn't going to hide, and people were going to have to come to terms with the fact that I wasn't part of the in-crowd anymore.

I don't claim to have all the answers. Maybe having all the answers isn't as important as we've been made to believe. I think it is hopelessly naive to think that all the answers are obtainable, or packaged in a neat one-size-fits-all belief system. I've been preached to, yelled at, guilt-tripped, insulted, threatened, disregarded, accused, and confronted with all of the methods that religion uses to attempt to convince itself that nobody in their right mind could possibly be exposed to religious doctrine and still reject it. I'm not a horrible person, I'm not an anti-Christ, and while I'm not perfect and have made some mistakes, I'm a good man who strives to be a better man. And I've found that I can do that, and maybe even do it more effectively, without embracing religion.

So I'll keep my telescope, thank you very much, and you can preach to me until you're blue in the face, but if I don't see a spaceship in the tail of that comet, I'm going to say so.

We all need to be less willing to sacrifice our critical thinking abilities when what we see with our own eyes conflicts with what we are expected to believe.

Why do people attend this stuff??? Seriously!

So I found myself sitting in a Mormon sacrament meeting recently… I’ve decided that there’s some correlation with the fact that the initials for sacrament meeting correspond with sadism and masochism. It’s a blisteringly infantile exercise in complete cultural myopia… truly an S&M mind fuck of Orwellian proportions.

I haven’t attended one of these Smith fetish circle jerks for over a year and it’s amazing what that distance will do to a person’s perception of this circus parade of ink-dark suites, ass hat ties passing for some laughable attempt at ‘personal expression’, and old biddy floral print froo froo juxtaposed against garment friendly wanna-be Cosmo MILF (mothers I'd like to fuck) sexy Mo-mommys…

Pardon me… I just hacked up a hair ball. I think it came from the lady in front of me sporting steel colored hair swathed in no less that two fucking cans of Aqua Net. But I digress…

The first hollow suit gets up and welcomes the visitors like Lurch would welcome you to your own beheading. Do they purposely train these imbeciles to be as completely dry and unapproachable as humanly possible? The whole time I kept thinking: “this is like the worst fucking business meeting I’ve ever attended… and there aren’t even useless color graphs and charts to lose focus on!” Shit this is frustrating! These people are just sitting here waiting to go home! There is nothing here worth coming for! I attended a Catholic Mass with my daughters a few weeks ago and at least THAT had some kick ass choir reverie.

I start to feel all my nervous ticks creep up on me and I feel this incessant desire to either run a way and find the nearest bar or rip my clothes off and streak the podium just to make something memorable out of the whole fucking affair! It was high counsel week to boot! Oh please someone please fuck me running with a chainsaw!

The model of Mormon spirituality in a nutshell: Any successful business executive is automatically qualified to speak on spiritual matters. And I am in the process now of forcing my head up my ass in order to try and make sense of the idiocy falling in putrid torrents from this idiot’s mouth. He’s blithering on about some fucked up shit regarding getting blessings based on obeying certain laws so he can close some fucking business deal. That’s right fuck-tard; Elohim will grant your wish once you jump through hoop x, drink the urine of a calico cat, and smear bat feces on your genitals! I kept thinking to myself: “so what laws does the 12 year old Sudan girl have to follow in order to secure the blessing of not getting gang raped by occupying militant forces ever other day?

Jesus these people can’t see the world around them!

And yet, there was some sad remnant of nostalgia with the sights, sounds and smells of that chapel and what went on in there… It’s just such a sad blundering corporate hulk now. There’s no life in it. The cronies at the COB (Church Office Building) have bled the old ship of whatever life she had left and there’s nothing left. As my ex so poignantly stated on many occasions throughout our married life: "I go because I'm being obedient." These people can't possibly be here because they want to. They're paying their dues... chasing the carrot on the stick for Old Humpin Joe's York Rite Freemasonic Kolobian Fantasy fuck. There can't be any rational reason to go.

Culturally speaking; Mormonism is dead.

Why did you go? Do you enjoy self-flagellation? - by sm

That was a great description of Sac meeting. Just wondering what was the reason you did this to yourself?

Taking one for the team - by Enigma

I was making nice-nice for some family. See - I can be a martyr too!

It was actually quite entertaining now that I don't have the Cult's cock deep throating me. It's been so long since I've been regularly face-fucked by the corpses at the COB that I can just sit there with a batshit crazy grin on my face as I watch other poor delusional pricks walk around the chapel with an iron rod up their ass while they suck the Church's teet for that eternal diet of curdled milk!

If the Book of Mormon were proven true

If the Book of Mormon were proven true, I still would not become a Mormon again.

I left the Mormon Church strongly suspecting but not "knowing" the Book of Mormon was a sham. I left *primarily* because I felt the Mormon Church was harmful to me personally and to society as a whole. Regardless of the Book of Mormon, which I am convinced is a fabrication of Joseph Smith, et al, were it "true" that still would not remove my primary objections to Mormonism.

Asking "If the Book of Mormon were true, would you become a Mormon again?" is just the kind of narrow question that encouraged me to leave in the first place. To me it is like saying, "If the Book of Mormon is true, you should still be part of the Church in spite of our history of sexism, violence, abuse of authority, racism, high rates of depression and suicide, sexual abuse, anti-intellectualism, reactionary politics, hostility toward science, and general religious nuttery."

Not me, thanks.

What is the dumbest job you have every seen created in the church?

Prophet - god needs a spokesperson? Why can't god speak for him/her/itself ?

Counselors to the President of the church - I thought Jesus was the Co-pilot on that ship of fools. Shouldn't the prophet be getting directions from the lord instead of a bunch of bozos in the back of the bus?

Apostles - Why would Jesus need a special witness? Wouldn't the word or reputation of a perfectly righteous being be good enough on it's own merit?

General Authorities - What's with all these layers upon layers of middle men? How many GAs does it take to screw in a lightbulb? (Maybe I'll make this question into a thread of its own - then some of the creative answers could be submitted to slamtoons).

Stake presidency - Here are middle men for the middle men. How much watering down does god's word need? Is there that much difference between the sinners of North Salt Lake and South Salt Lake that there could be a need for yet another translation of what's his name's opinion?

Bishop - So, the middle men of the middle men need neighborhood underling overlords to translate to and from the the next layers of middlemen?

Bishop's counselors and other local eclesiastic leaders - By this level, it almost looks like there are more shepherds than sheep to be fleeced.

Church member - What the hell does god need a cult for? Can't he/she/it do anything on his/her/it's own? If this life is a test of anything at all for an individual, then why are all of the answers being supplied and filtered by all of those layers of middlemen who are not even remotely involved in the individual's life?

Is there anyone in that food chain who is in touch with their own groceries?

Attention: President Thomas S Monson

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
50 East North Temple
Salt Lake City, UT 84150

Attention: President Thomas S Monson

Dear President Monson:

As one who suffers from within, I write this letter to inform you of the magnitude of a growing problem. I am fully active, fully worthy, and fully apostate. I remain active solely for the sake of immediate and extended family unity, and to preserve my marriage. The fact that I cannot act upon my knowledge about fraudulent church history and doctrine has created a considerable dilemma for both the church and myself. The church is filled with people like me, and if you do not address this dilemma, the church will collapse from within. This letter, therefore, is an appeal for your consideration of my personal dilemma, and to serve as a witness against you if you fail to act.

I am writing this letter anonymously because I fear the power of your unrighteous dominion. It is not acceptable for you to claim that you personally would not wish for those like me to suffer or fear. The “Strengthening Church Members Committee” has proven its reach in the true style of “1984 Thought-Crime” investigations and “Ministry (councils) of Love” discipline. Yes, I fear you, I loath your tactics, and I forcibly serve you. If you doubt my claim of forced servitude, then you would be wise to withhold your assessment until the end of this letter. I am writing with the futile hope that you (or anyone) will care enough to resolve this growing and unavoidable tragedy within the church; the tragedy of those who know the truth and cannot act upon it without destroying their families.

I come from 1837-convert lineage. I grew up in the Mormon Colonies in Mexico; I was hyper-valiant in my youth; I completed reading the full set of scriptures by the age of 16; I had all the missionary discussions and missionary scriptures memorized before even getting my call to serve; I served a very successful mission in Mexico; I attended BYU; I married in the temple; I served in four different bishoprics, high council, stake executive secretary, gospel doctrine instructor, young men’s president, high priest group leader, and various other callings; I was a student of the gospel, and was known for my answers to difficult historical and doctrinal questions; I have attended the temple more than 800 times, and virtually have the whole thing (all ordinances) memorized; I am a set-apart ordinance worker; I am currently serving in three ward and stake callings; IN OTHER WORDS: I deserve your respect, and am not engaged in any unworthy activity, so before you categorize me into some convenient slot, think again.

I have five children, two returned-missionary-temple-married, one attending BYU, and two active in the youth program. My wife and I have lived our nearly 25 years of marriage completely united in our commitment to a gospel oriented home. My wife is one of the most valiant, unquestioning, devoted members you will ever meet. Our happiness in marriage was centered in the gospel. We have faithfully performed all of the home-strengthening practices (FHE, daily prayer and scripture study, etc) throughout our married years. Our children are strong in the church because we as parents gave them that foundation. We are your typical success story.

This changed approximately two years ago. The story about how it changed is long, complicated, and spans years of personal study, personal observation, and experience. Rather than rehearse the entire journey, I will only summarize the end results. Suffice it to say that I have discovered reliable unchallenged facts about church history, church operations, church doctrine, and church culture that have brought me to the undeniable conclusion that the church is not true. Not only is the church not true (meaning that it is not what it claims to be), but the church purposefully withholds (even denies) vital information that would lead ANY thinking person to the same conclusion. Finally, church leaders even boast about the moral and ethical justification for acting this way. This is the behavior pattern of a cult; it is inconsistent with the church’s own articles of faith; and it is the central reason for the growing groundswell of revolt from within. To ignore this fact is the height of arrogance. You are either stupid or you are devious; whichever you choose, you lose.

I have a feeling (since I cannot imagine a different possibility) that you already know about this problem. You already know that the church is not what it claims to be; you already know that Native Americans are not the Lamanites of the Book of Mormon; you already know that the whole story of the BOM is not accurate or historical or even a translation of gold plates; you already know that the Book of Abraham is not a translation of the papyri that it claims to be; you already know that the first vision account is not reliable or accurate; you already know that church history is a warped version of real history and real history paints a pretty bleak picture of church origins and behavior; you already know that spiritual “special witness” experiences are not what the average member believes them to be; and you already know that as prophets, seers, and revelators, you do not possess any such gifts as they are understood by the average member. You receive and even encourage unqualified trust in your special abilities, and you know very well that those abilities are not special at all. You may be talented administrators, but you are not prophets, seers, and revelators, and you know it. Yet you allow members to revere and honor you as such. You are either self-deceived or you are willing deceivers. You know that members believe and teach that you have had personal physical visitations from Jesus Christ, and you know that you have not had this experience. Yet, you are willing to allow members to perpetuate this myth for unknown but unavoidably dishonest reasons. This is a pattern, not an anomaly. You know you are not what you claim to be (or what church culture teaches about you); and you allow this false perception to continue. What does that say about you and your integrity?

So, after coming to this awful realization that things are not what they claim to be within the church, what are my options? This journey was so disruptive and internally tumultuous that I chose to travel it alone. I was absolutely certain that there were solid faith sustaining answers to each disturbing fact. Finally, after I had absorbed the magnitude of the truth, I tried to share it with my wife. To her horror, she saw that her husband had gone into the unthinkable realm of “apostasy”. At first, she resented me for even looking; then she denied the possibility that any of it could be true; then she tried to stand on the shaky ground that even if it was true it did not lead to the conclusions I had made; finally, she clings to the defensive posture that I cannot be smarter than you (how can so many good men be wrong and her imperfect husband be right?). This is where you come into the picture. This is where the church comes between me and my wife in our marriage relationship. This is where the damage is done in countless other relationships. Do you think that you can escape responsibility for this damage? Do you doubt your complicity in creating this wedge? Can you understand how people like me come to a point of powerless resentment against the church? I suspect that you cannot understand such things, because if you did you would use your influence to make necessary changes.

There is nothing more ironic than the saying that “A man can leave the church, but he can never leave it alone.” The truth is that “A man can leave the church but only if he leaves ‘alone’”, or “A man can leave the church but the church can never leave him alone.” You would gladly split up my family rather than allow my knowledge to draw them away from the church. You have proven such intent in both policy and practice.

I am trapped in the church; of that there can be no doubt. And yet I perceive that you do indeed doubt such an idea. It seems foreign to you that I would claim to be trapped in an institution that glorifies agency. But surely you can see the cultural elements (which you support) that limit my options. Extended family relationships are high-pressure control mechanisms. My leaving the church for doctrinal or historical reasons would have a devastating and disruptive impact on the entire family network. You glorify those who leave their families to join our church and at the same time you demonize those who would leave the church for whatever reason. You stereotype those who obtain damaging “truth” as intellectuals and apostates. You encourage an atmosphere of exclusion against those who have information that would damage faith, even when that faith is founded upon false data.

Your efforts of withholding and denying truth have had the result of destroying personal integrity. I know things that I cannot openly speak about, even with those closest to me. I lie in temple recommend interviews so I can go to the temple to see my own children get married, and because my wife is comforted by the image of a temple worthy husband. I lie to my children when they question an aspect of church history or doctrine, because the truth would place them in the same pressure cooker I am in. I lie to my wife because she finds the truth so disturbing. I lie because telling the truth is more painful than a comforting lie. And I learned to lie from you. You are lying to the membership by your silence (and denial) regarding information that is vital to faith. People base their faith on incorrect information; you know this; and you remain silent. You lie for the same reason that I lie; because people prefer a comforting lie over a disturbing truth. I am trapped here because of the culture you have created, and I am reduced to using the same tactics you use at the expense of personal integrity.

Your understanding of the culture you created and perpetuate through established programs is dismal. You preach adherence to the guidance of the brethren; you promise blessings for obedience to programs and leaders; you build a structure of dependence and hierarchical authoritarianism; you inculcate an environment of conformance without regard to individuality; and you do all of this with the stated intent of blessing and improving lives, relationships and family bonds. Your programs have evolved into a culture with the opposite effect than the one you intended; members feel constantly inadequate regardless of their effort; families pressure struggling children with bad advice that comes from your talks and books; you raise the bar, a blatant slap in the face to those who do not fit within your misguided program. Programs flounder not because of poor execution but because they are poor programs. When such negative results reach your ears, you are saddened that the poor members just do not see the vision; that they cannot learn the vital lessons. It never occurs to you that your inspiration and leadership is the flawed element. Either you are uninspired or uninformed, but your leadership is causing more suffering than blessings. But this is not really about bad programs. Rather, it is about faulty foundations. I do not expect you to acknowledge that the church is not what it claims to be, but I demand that you acknowledge your part in the failures. Stop blaming failure on the members. It is cheap and dishonest.

So, I am angry to the point of despair. I do not expect you to do anything with this information, except try to track me down and deal with me through your secret “committees”. I would resign today if I thought my family could remain intact. But I will continue to coax my family closer to the truth with longsuffering and gentle persuasion, and when they can see the real story without demonizing their father, son, and husband, then I will relish our departure and be rid of you and your unrighteous dominion. Someday I will not be so afraid of your influence, and I will confront your abuse of power directly.

Your success is over. You had a small window of opportunity to be forthcoming and open, and you have missed it. History is against you. Science is against you. TRUTH is against you. As you become more closed and protective, you will appear more ridiculous from the outside. Even though you will probably interpret this result to be “prophecy fulfilled,” the result will be the same. Enjoy your last breath of illusory comfort, because it will not last.

I am not alone. I am part of a growing community of knowledgeable members who will not be silenced for long. You have no idea how to deal with us because you fear our power. You fear it because you know that truth is on our side. I would feel pity for you except for the inexpiable arrogance that you currently display without remorse. The law of the harvest will be your undoing. You have sown seeds of benevolent deception; you shall reap a harvest of faithful rebellion.

Disrespectfully:

______________________________
Faithful Apostate

P.S. I have attached a more detailed listing of evidence just in case you haven’t seen it before. Your silence should be without excuse.

What is important to the Mormon church?

I have been wondering just what is important to the leaders of the Mormon church. It has me mystified.

I know there are some basic things they stress:

1) Word of Wisdom---this is stressed to the point where coffee drinkers are serious sinners, and those who drink alcohol are beyond all hope of salvation. Light a cigarette and you are thrust into hell.

2) Tithing---always of paramount importance. Tithing shows obedience, builds temples, and lays the groundwork for malls. Tithing, carefully laundered, pays off a Mark Hoffman, and sends the brethren flitting about the globe. It helps fund BYU football and the plea for one earring.

3) Masturbation. This practice is in a class by itself. It has huge importance, and is still a major concern of church leaders. While not considered as serious as fornication (second only to murder), masturbation is at least as bad as armed robbery and assault with a deadly weapon. Good heavens, how many 14 year old kids have to be tortured by the subject?

4) Malls. We know malls, or one mall in particular, has cosmic significance. The church is spending two billion dollars to build one. God knows it must be a sacred thing. Will you need a "Temple Recommend" to buy your Cartier watch?

5) Obedience. Nothing matters more. One simply must obey. You have to "follow the brethren" no matter what. If they tell you to jump off Mt. Olympus, you should join the line climbing to the top. And if they said to do just that, the line would form in a matter of minutes.

6) Image. God, is that ever important. Image. What would the church do without image? Think of the BYU Dress Code, the boring white shirts and name tags, the "modest length" of skirts, the short hair, and freshly scrubbed and polished look. Image---it is so terribly important. Millions have been spent to promote that image. Sadly, polygamy still trumps the PR.

7) Family. The church claims that family is important---no, family is everything. But they break families up all the time. God help the wayward family member who reads history, and finds out its a scam. God help the poor soul who cannot attend the wedding of a child, or the kids whose father or mother is always gone doing "church work." The church uses family as a handle, and then lets the bag it's attached to drop.

8) Joseph Smith. One NEVER hears the last about Joseph Smith. He is terribly important. He towers over Christ, the human race, the Church Office Building, and all other earthly things. He even rivals the new mall. He is a giant, a huge an all important figure. He is constantly sold, polished, and upgraded. Now, he is the handsome hunk, walking home with an axe over his shoulder----a cross between Paul Bunyan and Brad Pitt. He is, at once, sexy, but chaste, kind, but fierce, loving but willing to fight. He is a stud. Oh to be like Joseph Smith.

9) The pioneer image. Hinckley loved this one. He wanted a new Mormonism, based on feel good platitudes and love of the pioneers. Handcarts and heroism, pioneers and platitudes. This stuff is vital to the new and improved church.

Members go to "Martin's Cove," and kids pull idiotic handcarts on their MIA outings. Dear God, lets celebrate the pioneers again. It has been minutes since the last celebration.

I am sure there are many others. I just cannot name them all.

Look at what has been cast aside. We don't hear about home gardens, "The Pearl of Great Price," Paul Dunn, the "New Testament," and kindness. They have no value.

Multi Level Marketing In Utah

I'm pretty green at all this but I wanted to start a thread about the MLM's that are such a big problem in Utah and among typical LDS. My ex was a real sucker for these and he seemed to go from one to another looking for the latest new "Religion of get rich quick on the ground floor, used by NASA, buy from your own store, all natural, cures every known disease, makes you thinner, grows hair, and will free all the ward members from debt" scheme foisted on the more susceptable and dumb hopefuls who didn't really want to get a real job.

I fought hard against these, especially while he was spending our miniscule income on motivational tape programs and seminars and I was trying to stir the clumps out of powdered milk for the kids since we couldn't even afford the real stuff. I hated the time they took, the lack of return, and the garage full of crap we ended up with after each scheme failed. I hated his efforts to coerce or guilt my family and our former friends into this baloney, and I hated the fact that while we drove a broken down Pinto, he was trying to tell everyone that they too could get wealthy beyond their wildest dreams. They'd have diamond rings and fur coats at the seminars for us to try on so we could get used to being wealthy!! Nothing says prosperity like $12.00 a tube toothpaste and vitamins that make you smell like a cud chewing cow, with as much methane gas emanating from the suddenly bloated gut after consuming these alfalfa tablets.

My ex considered it killing two birds with one stone. While he networked and made contacts with people he considered gullible and needy enough to listen to his fantastic stories about Spiritual Growth in the MORMON CHURCH!!!, he could then sell them the second load of crap from whatever new company he was involved in. One poor sap wondered if the same profit status applied when you got members baptized and what percentage of their tithing you might get or if you climbed your way up the ladder, could you become bishop, then Stake Pres, and all the way up to Gen. Authority? How many converts does it take to ride the top of the pyramid and go to the cool weekend retreat at the Mormon Private Island on Temple Square?

The circles he drew in Amway were much like the ones they use when describing the plan of salivation. (I wrote it that way and I say it stays). I see the same enthusiasm, trickery, and manipulation when the young missionaries are sent out to approach people to join the church and it's interesting to see the parallells. That the church members are first in line to be sucked into these is no wonder and the use of the ward rosters is like a free sucker list that one would have to pay plenty for if not in the church.

I worry for my young adult children. I thought I taught them about how wrong many of these programs are but it seems they are targeted daily in their respective wards from other young adult couples hoping to get a "Downline". They know better than to try to sell me the crap but I suspect they're hiding their involvement from me. I want to pull them out and reitterate the foolishness, the inconsistancies, the statistics of failure, etc. but I realize I just have to let them flounder a bit and learn for themselves. I hate that they get innundated by other ward members and even sometimes the bishopric to join these scams. I thought the church had counselled against them but since many of the uppety up in the companies like Nu-Skin and other MLM's are LDS, I suppose it's just not explained well or decried in a believable way.

Are there some deprogramming org. out there that help get people out of these MLM's? The same principles that apply to many of the LDS believers is parallell with the MLM's and until they learn to think for themselves, follow the strong instincts and logic that is supposed to be inherent, then I guess they'll be subject to whatever charletan is out there trying to milk them and manipulate them. When do we stop worrying about our kids? I'll have to ask my mom I guess.

Using a jackhammer to push a thumbtack

My own son went on his mission as did all my brothers and many of my nieces and nephews. I think the sum total of my immediate family accounts for 26 missions between 18 months and two years each. Total baptisms are probably around that as well, so in essence they duplicated their own number. The financial tally is probably around $300,000, give or take a little for airfare, luggage, etc.. They've traveled to Europe, S. America, the states, and Asia. The sum total of hours they've devoted would probably be about (30 days a month x 24 hrs a day, x 24 months per mission, x 26 missions) 449,280 hours devoted to the church,... so far. That's not counting the zillions of accumulated hrs. in other church activities we've all contributed over our lives.

Volume of service to the truely needy---Wells built-0, Homes built or repaired-0, children innoculated-0, children educated-0, families fed or taught better farming practices-0, mosquito nets delivered-0, orphans rescued-0, single mothers helped-0, soup kitchens served-0, ... can you see my point?

So, if the 26 people that were baptized stayed active (the recidivism is less than 50%) and they were able to coerce 26 more people to join, then in the course of 35 years a whopping 52 people would now have all the blessings and priveleges that the Mormon church affords them. The biggest one is they have the privelege of paying 10% of their income to the church, 90 percent of their time, their talents, home, and children, and in return they get to learn public speaking, scout activities (basketball) and if they have the misfortune to be a woman, to learn their dutiful place in the roles of marriage.

I'm with those that believe all the youthful energy and strength should be used for humanitarian causes. If they want to lead by example, DO SOMETHING WORTHWHILE!!! My son went to France and I was jealous because I've never been to Europe yet. He was rejected nearly every day, walked a thousand miles and rode trains and knocked on doors and prayed and payed, and prayed, and read scriptures and knocked on some more doors, and learned three languages. He rarely talks about the experience but I gather from him that he resented his two years of youth being so misspent. He seems to think of Europe as a den of immoral worldly godless heathens, (and dirty Muslims) and unfortunately has no respect for the cultures, language, histories, and much more that could have been gleaned from such an experience. He didn't learn these things in my home but from the pressures and disappointments of the futility of his mission experience.

He is brilliant as I suspect many of the young men and women who give so freely of their time. He is strong, beautiful, creative, funny, and innovative. Why can't the church use all that in something that is productive, helpful, impactful, furthers the cause of world peace, helps the downtrodden and teaches our children to appreciate and value their amazing gifts and lives here in the US? The typical LDS proselytizing missions are a HUGE waste of time, a huge waste of money, and a sad waste of all that is wonderful in our young people.

Cliff Claven Theory of Beer and Brain Cells

Is anyone here a fan of Cheers? One of my favorite episodes is when Cliff Claven (the doofus postman) was explaining his theory of beer and brain cells. "Everyone knows that beer kills brain cells. I argue that beer makes you smarter because in the natural selection of evolution, the weak and diseased are the first to go, so beer kills those weak cells off first, leaving the smart ones to continue living,...ergo, beer makes you smarter."

This thread was originally about Mormons and health issues. I grew up LDS and saw both sides of this issue. I believe overall that the LDS do have healthier bodies because they don't smoke or drink, but obesity is as rampant among the LDS as any other group, possibly even more. Having babies doesn't always cause enormous weight gain but a diet that kids tend to prefer does and that's where many LDS women acquire their poor habits. Vats of Mac and Cheese, meat and potatoes, cheap comfort foods, and dessert at every function are big contributors. Also, the lack of excersize or a focus on this essential habit for women and children is a big contributor to the obesity in America as well as the LDS people. Obesity is proving to be far worse for our bodies than even cigarettes, coffee, or alcohol, taxing our bone structure, muscles, and internal organs, especially the heart. Following is a rant I wrote a while back about this grotesque person in my mother's ward. I can really get on a bender about this crap and see the hypocracy as one of the big reasons I hate going to church. I also don't agree with some of the key doctrine but the people in the church are like a double whammy to keep me far away.

Coca Cola-The Sexual Succubus of Satan-- ..Relief Society is even more frustrating to go to. At least during Sunday School there is a sort of open discussion for a smattering of thought and opinion. In RS, it's sort of generally expected to go with the flow, just say something nice, and keep ones mind closed. The lady giving the lesson is this grotesquely obese and very very physically ill woman. She can barely stand with the aide of a cane and huffs and puffs with each strained sentence. In addition to being difficult to look at, she is very very shrill and narrow in her focus. Her lesson was about following the Prophets. She had us sing all 9 tedious verses of this primary children's song that is set in sort of a pentameter beat. It is sort of like a "99 bottles of Beer on the Wall" version of biblical and Book of Mormon prophets. By the fourth verse I was thinking I would rather march a death march in Bho Tan than sing another verse of that song.

She followed the song with a sanctimonious lesson about following the prophet. She told about the correct way to decipher if someone was a true prophet of God or just a person with their own personal revelation. She arrogantly suggested that if direction or thought didn't come from a Prophet called by God and trained in the leadership of the church for decades, then it shouldn't be taken seriously. She said that if someone suggested that we paint the Salt Lake Temple Red, then to discount it, but if the Prophet said we should paint it red, we should all get our brushes and hustle up there. I wanted to call out, "Baaaaa Baaaaa". The women just nodded their heads in unison and thougth she was cute for saying such a thing. It is considered bad form for anyone to disagree with the speaker, no matter how distorted or off track their ideas are. In accepting it quietly, we basically agree with the stupidity and ignorance. I find myself sitting in abject anger and frustration because it does no good to say anything to these women.

This woman then said in her most veclempt and self righteous demeanor that she would set the example for the class and share a thought about a directive that a prophet had given that she followed religiously, then the class could follow suit and tell their thoughts. She stated that her legs couldn't take standing any longer, perhaps hoping that we'd all think her efforts to teach this lesson was a noble sacrifice on her part rather than an opportunity for her to spew her bloated opinions about church theology.

She mentioned the directive from David O.McKay in the 60's about not drinking Coca Cola. She gave a flowery description about her first seductive, icy cold coke and how it felt so good. It might as well have been her first sexual experience, and just as sinful. She reassured us that she'd repented and has never drunk a coke since then. Then she started a round of urban myths about Coca Cola, suggesting that it is used to burn grease off of engines. Someone piped up with the suggestion that the Coca Cola Fleet Mechanics use it to clean the truck engines. Someone else added the idea that Coke can dissolve a nail and take tar off your car. I laughed because a can of sprite can do the same thing but no one seemed to be interested in truth at that point. Ironically the women who were offering such silly suggestions were also considerably obese women. The sugar from a can of pop is far more dangerous than the caffine and obesity has many more side effects than caffine yet you don't see the church coming out with a directive about eating doughnuts or macaroni and cheese by the vat. The carbonation from soda pop is directly linked to a lot of fat problems and can actually stimulate the fat cells in one's body, then with the added sugar it is a deadly combo. Those that sanctimoniously say they don't take anything with caffine in it but consume so much sugar, lard, and other fat things are so silly.

I wonder if that woman would be as receptive to a lesson on treating our bodies like a temple and gift from God. She clearly has terrible health issues and her obesity is so grotesque that it makes one feel repulsed to even look at her. Caffine is the least of her problems but I get the impression that if people like her diffuse attention from their own problems by sanctimoniously judging those that drink caffine, then they will appear righteous and self sacrificing by not imbibing in such frivolous and dangerous drugs.

Sundays In The Mormon Church - To Be or NOT To Be

There is a very very painful price to pay for choosing to leave the church, especially if your children or family remain. It is not for the light hearted or weak and it is not something I recommend until one has fully recognized the cognitive dissonance that would kill their soul if they remain in the church.

I've heard that in some Muslim cultures and sects that if one of their own leaves the faith or even steps foot in another church they are not only ostracized, but a death warrant is issued on their head.

For devout Jews to separate from the faith and traditions is akin to a rejection of all that is sacred and makes them who they are.

In our modern society where we have access to such diverse ideas and information it seems a natural progression to eventually go away from most religions as they become like a tight set of clothing that may have fit us when we were young, but now feel like a set of constricting bands, cutting of circulation to the brain and binding our freedom of movement and thought.

The jury is still out on whether it was wrong to raise my kids Mormon, especially since they've turned out pretty good in spite of our theological and intellectual differences. I suspect they would have turned out good in any setting and tribute consistant parenting and good influences to their success. In my fantasies where I get to rewind my life back to where I could have changed everything, I wouldn't raise them in any religion but would give them the opportunity to respect and study many, therefore coming to tolerate the broad diversity that makes up our nation and world. Unfortunately, it's too late for that.

What XXX and many others of us who choose to follow the dictates of our own conscience is facing is daunting at best. Every day you're faced with this decision, much like Meryl Streep in "Sophie's Choice". If you stay, the price is your mind and heart lost in the machine and pablum of religious activity. If you leave, often the distance between your children and community is so vast that to cross it becomes a major trip for either party.

I know many who choose to stay and I see how they become grey inside, void of ambition, dreams, or deep thought. They step up to that "Iron Rod" and grab hold and dare not look to the left or right, but only at the back of the head of the one in front of them and follow, follow, follow. The facade of "happy family" is maintained. I did this for years and so when I finally decided to leave it shocked everyone because they had only seen the surface of what they thought was perfection.

There comes a point for many who face this dilema where going to church creates a sense of panic and anxiety and you literally cannot breathe if you are forced to participate in something that so wholly grates against your conscience and mind. I'd find myself sitting near the back door of any room and the moment I'd hear the conflicting messages, the pressure to conform and nod in agreement to something that was so blatantly wrong, I'd have to leave and step outside, gulping in big breaths of fresh air. I soon felt so anxious just stepping inside the church that it would instantly cause me to feel like a trapped wolf, eyes wide with fear and anger and I would literally sweat with anxiety. The physical manifestations of mental, emotional, and intellectual dissonance was more than I could bear.

When I was younger I used to speak out at such moments. I actually believed if I were intelligent and sincere enough that my words mattered and would help bring the lessons or conversations back to center where they would make sense and reflect the good that I so wanted the church to represent. Like XXX and many others, I was labeled a "nay sayer, a rebel, an apostate", and much more. The ostracization began and carried over to my children. The price and shame they felt was more than i could bear so I stuffed it all down and learned to escape, make lame and numerous excuses, minimize, cover up, and otherwise avoid church. Sundays instantly brought about a headache and I could manage to feign four periods a month that would double me over with cramps. I'd go late, leave early, and make sure to have everything in place to justify my exits and absences. The efforts to avoid going to church were exhausting.

Yes, Utah is a Mormon enclave and many of them are near Nazi in their enforcement of their religion. It runs as a theocracy in culture and social endeavors. Sometimes it's one of the lonliest places on earth, especially if you choose not to play along. Peace of mind and contentment are not easy to attain anywhere and I don't know anyone who completely achieves this.

It's been eight years. The kids grew up and in spite of the differences they still love me. I no longer get headaches on Sunday. I don't get sick to my stomach when I pass the church. I've made peace with my neighbors by minding my own business and keeping my protests to the anonymous part of the internet where they don't or shouldn't be viewing them. I smile and play dumb when they start in on some religious discussion. I love Utah and it's landscape. I love the clean air, the beautiful mountains, the outdoor life and climate. I don't want to leave. Sundays have become my day to celebrate all that is good in Utah. Fighting against the Mormons on their own turf seems fruitless and a path to pain. Maybe I'm getting too old to pick such battles or value the war.

Perhaps instead of fighting so publically with a war of words, one could win the battle with joy and pleasure instead. Make Sundays so fun and enjoyable by diverting the time with the kids to genuinely involved and creative play. Make it so that they see church as the tedious chore they have to do before they get to go outside, like scrubbing the toilet or brushing teeth. Make it "Daddy's Day" so that after your wife takes them to church you get to take them on a date where the things you value, the ideas you treasure and the life you want become part of their experience as well. Once the kids know freedom of thought, of experience, and the joys of just having fun they won't have to be indoctrinated against the church. It's human nature to resist the tedious dutiful things that we are compelled to participate in. Who really gets all excited about paying bills?

Provo Canyon has one of the best rivers in the west for tubing. SLC has every kind of outdoor diversion at it's fingertips. S. Utah is absolute heaven for playing outside year round. Kids love rockhounding, camping, bike riding, and so many other physical things that could take them all over the state. I can't imagine what it would be like to have a dad that wanted to spend time with the kids, but if Infymus or others genuinely love theirs, then CARPE DIEM the Sunday!!

I'm not an early riser so I don't start my services till after a cup of coffee and some nice buttered toast. Round about 9:30, when the Sunday paper is scattered all over the living room and my teeth are brushed, then the sermon starts to gain steam, the "Spirit" takes over, and by 10:00 a.m. "Hallelujah's" can be heard a block away. Pounding the pulpit usually ends up in a complete conversion, with lots of quaking and quivering that would convince any non-believer that the holy spirit had taken over the flesh and was manifesting ittself through the mysterious "Speaking in tongues" and other gyrations. If there's an equivilant to Nirvana it would be "Hie To Kolob" and on a good Conference, I go Hie to Kolob two or three times. There's no need to ask, "Was it good for you?" and the still small voice usually is just a squeak that gives credit to the almighty lover who at that moment is like a God.

Morgasms

I made up the word "Morgasms" but maybe someone else came up with something similar before. Anyway, my definition of a Morgasm is something you have to fake repeatedly, believably, and with enough sweat and quiverring to convince those who NEED the confirmation that "It was good for me too". In the Mor-mon church, this would apply to nearly all the doctrine that has to do with the history of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. This would definately have to be well practiced in order to go along with the Temple practices and rituals. Even little slight sighs and coos are necessary if one is to feign pleasure at a mere Sacrament meeting (kind of like sleepy sex where you aren't really participating but your body is there being mildly poked). A full blown "Meg Ryan" is required for the moments after a Temple encounter when you're asked if it was as spiritual for you as it was for them.

Unfortunately, I never got that good at faking Morgasms and in fact, I was crass enough to often say, "Is that all there is???".

The Mormon Sabbath

Sabbath in the Mormon church is Sunday. There's a long history behind the typical Christian reservation of Sunday as the day of rest, but in the Adventist beliefs (I think...) they look to some obscure but actual biblical reference to it being on Saturday. The Mormons believe or are supposed to support the idea that you don't work on the Sabbath, you don't go to the store, and you aren't supposed to engage in sports or other physical activities other than a nice stroll or the three hour brawl that is the typical block meeting with toddlers.

In Truth, (this is always different than PRACTICE or DOCTRINE, which have little to do with truth)... Sunday is the most stressful day of the week for most devout LDS. It starts early with what's called correlation meetings. These are a way of setting a sort of communist/socialist/cultish arrangement to the upcoming meetings that are to plan the next meetings, for the actual meeting which is Sacrament, Sunday School, and either Primary, Priesthood, Relief Society, Young Womens, Elders Quorum, High Priests, or Young Mens, or a plethora of in between meetings.

If the mom isn't required to go to the correlation meeting she's probably on a list to go to something else like a primary planning session or what have you or the dreaded Librarian job. If they miss out on leadership they get to be a teacher of some sort, i.e. various young kids, various teen age kids, various adults, various women, various men, various geriatric people in eternal sleep mode, newcomers and investigators, newlyweds, etc..

If they don't get the middle management jobs they get to be assistants, like assistant librarian, assistant music coordinator, assistant to the 1st counselor of the assistant to the ward clerk, and on and on. Mundane, redundant, pointless you ask???? WELCOME TO THE MORMON ORG.!!!! In Utah they have people "Called by GOD HIMSELF" to be name tag hander outers. While the rest of the world is starving , being raped, blowing up and being poisoned by toxic sludge, God is busying himself with sorting out WHO should be the name tag hander outer. There are no small callings, only small minded bishops.

After a planning meeting to plan another meeting, the real meeting time is supposed to start. If your ward starts at 9:00 a.m. and Sacrament is first, it's customary to start getting ready at 7:00 a.m. but the last shoe for the 9th child can't be found till 8:58 and then you still have to get into your Ford Aerostar van and hope to god it starts. After you use your pinto to jump your Ford Aerostar van and get it rolling downhill and on the way to the church, (1/2 block away) you still have to fight 300 other moms in their ford aerostars for a parking spot. Then when you unload the van and carry the shoeless ones into the church across the snowy sludge in the parking lot you still have to waddle into the chapel.

Luckily they know everyone is always going to be at least 10 minutes late and they have the most pointless stuff first so you don't miss anything. Announcements, opening prayer (usually the same ol rote thing heard a million times) and a rousing version of an opening hymn, sung in the slowest blood draining, off key meter you can imagine. You still have time to shuffle into the folding chairs in the flourscently lit gymnasium behind the padded chairs in the chapel before the sacrament is blessed and passed.

Don't worry that you didn't get a padded chair. Those are reserved for the old people who get there before 9:00 and for those anal retentive McMormon Martha Stewart types who have clean fresh, matching little McMormon nuggets all smiling and sitting with their matching happy quiet books in tidy little rows and coordinated matching bags of cheerios between them. You can forget about ever getting the right or opportunity to sit on a padded chair. It's just not done.

The sacrament is a sweet little rote prayer set up to celebrate the blood and flesh of none other than Jesus himself. A creepy cannabilistic ritual???? Maybe, but they fool the devout into thinking it will help them have Christ's spirit with them through the week. Really it's just wonder bread broken into little bits by young men who rarely wash their hands (thanks for the visual from ? on the little factory reference to guys passing the sacrament... ewwww). The water is tap water in paper or plastic cups but takes on a sort of chemically taste but helps to wash the wonder bread down. Little kids like to take the wonder bread bit and roll it around in their little grubby hands and make a grey ball from the glue like bread, and then THEY EAT IT. No wonder coming from these little nose miners.

After the sacrament comes the speeches. These vary from subject to subject but due to the church correlation, each ward is supposed to have a little similarity in it's topics, so if you miss in one ward, wait till the next and you'll hear the same speech.

The first to speak are usually the youth. THey read something from the Ensign, Especially For Mormons, or some other approved publication and if they inflect a word or two, that means they really practiced. They rarely look up or give any personality to the talk. It's as if the audience is just too illiterate and stupid to read for themselves. Even if the audience has heard the same emotionally manipulative story a zillion times, they laugh in a sort of mass gratuitous chuckle. It's obligatory but gives the poor sap up front encouragement, but makes him lose his place so he/she will read the same paragraph again, then fumble embarassed, and eventually finish.

Once a month the heirarchy insists that a group of geriatric old men, devoid of personality and with the same color and consistancy of three day old oatmeal, without the raisins to come and drone on to the ward on some pre-approved topic. This is the time to take a cat nap or pinch your baby or something so you can escape for a while. They drone for about 20 minutes and then sit down with a Nameajeezechristnamen and the audience sort of wakes up enmasse.

Then they sing another hymn. or someone sings or plays a violin or flute. Percussion instruments are NOT ALLOWED.

Then another speaker reads to you and eventually it starts to wrap up and the congregation sings another hymn.

The audience is not too tuned into this because most of them are reading their lesson manuals so they can teach their lesson in Primary, YW, RS or whatever or they're wrestling with their kids to try to keep them from carving their names into the pews or making spit wads from the pages of the hymnals.

Then comes the other meetings..... more of the same only more hectic... then if you're lucky and manage to get out of the church by noon, you still have to rush home, get lunch on while everyone is screaming about how hungry they are. Once dinner is wolfed down you still have to clean the kitchen because your "RIGHTEOUS MAN" husband is resting or still in meetings. Then you could try to take a nap but the kids are yelling and bored out of their skulls because they can't watch tv cause the PROPHET told you not to. Unless it's BYU FOOTBALL

The nap is usually interrupted by your visiting or home teacher if it's the last day of the month. They come in, sit in your little sitting room that has either mauve or green or blue furniture with a piano on one wall, a Thomas Kinkaide painting above it (or the one with George Washington kneeling in Valley Forge) and the other walls have pictures of Jesus, "The Proclomation to the World" in faux cherry or oak, and some school portraits of your kids, a little askew because you used cheap nails instead of good hooks. THere's a set of matching lamps with crocheted doilies under them on matching oak or faux cherry lamp tables and on the coffe table in front of the green, mauve, or blue couch is a display of church magazines. On the bookcase next to the gratutious piano is a set of THE WORK AND THE GLORY in color cordinated decension as well as other approved church works. In a little glass case from Wal-Mart or Sams club is a series of resin or ceramic statues of Jesus, the temple, or the ones of the man and woman holding some kids. You MAY NOT DISPLAY ANY OTHER ART IN A TRUE MORMON HOME. If you don't believe me, make an appointment to see a Mormon Bishop and go to his house. If this is NOT the arrangement I'll eat a bug.

After they read you the lesson from the Ensign (church magazine for adults) they ask you to have a family prayer. Your kids begrudgingly gather round and a rote prayer is said and then they are obligated to ask you if there's anything they can do for you or your family. Don't fool yourself into thinking it is actually an invitation for assistance. It's just gratutious. Nod politely and smile pretty and say, "NO BROTHER/SISTER bla bla, Everything here is just fine, JUST FINE". It doesn't matter if you're on the verge of a nervous breakdown, jsut had a miscarriage, your marriage is ending, or the home is being foreclosed. THIS IS NOT THE PLACE OR TIME TO ASK FOR HELP. You're just a notch on a belt so they can go back to their leader and say they've done their home teaching. YOu have REAL friends and family to rely on when you need help.

Usually by 6 p.m. you've been "rode hard and put away wet' and have nothing left for anything remotely resembling tolerance or spirituality. That's when the SUNDAY FIRESIDE starts. If you're not hosting it you are asked to bring a dessert. Pour some melted marshmallows over popcorn and wad them up into balls and bring them on a big plastic plate and call it good. Then you get to crowd into someones basement family room with the faux fire burning and listen to some token person of color or who survived a fire or some other miracle tell their story. It's universally deemed a miracle and their experience is verification that God loves Mormons, and then you eat sugary treats and acidic punch and congratulate each other for being Mormon, and then leave.

If you're lucky you're in bed by 10:00 and get to start the rest of your life for the week.

HEY, I didn't hear anything about CHRIST'S LIFE or his teachings in there!! Oh yeah, that's secondary. THe main thing is that you obeyed, you prayed, and you payed. After that, it's just follow and close your eyes. It'll all be over in about 70 years.

Basically the LDS Church is a successful brand and it's loyal membership are totally obsessed by it.

The LDS Church has evolved into a well organized corporation that is widely recognized by the general public because of it's past ties with polygamy, it's door to door knocking missionaries, and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. The majority of the world's population does not even know what a Mormon is but those who do consider it a weird cult.

Mormon Incorporated is a far cry from being a world recognized brand like Coca Cola, Mercedes Benz, Toyota, or McDonalds. The church claims to be worldwide and growing. This claim and a careful analysis into the actual situation may point us to who the actual customers of this religious corporation really are.

The church is worldwide but if you have had the opportunity to visit LDS church services around the world, they are usually a very small number of people unless you get into the higher density Mormon areas, especially the intermountain west area of the United States. Again, look at the church leadership. They all are mostly from the intermountain west of the US and mostly white. At the head, the church looks everything but international.

What is the symbolism of this brand? Well, the public relations BS says "We're international, growing, and bigger and better than ever!" The same yadda, yadda you get from most big corporations but what is real animal?

First of all the corporation loves it's history. At least the "Sanitized for you protection" version of it. Great expense and care has been used to beautify, modernize, and bring attention to every major and not so major LDS historical sites. Look at Palmyra, Look at Nauvoo. Even places like Far West, MO or Old Town San Diego have Mormon Monuments or visitors centers.

Look at the buildings the church builds. These are not cathedrals in any sense but there are a ton of them in Mormon infested areas and they are well maintained. The more visible buildings like temples or ones that appear on television show the signs that someone has a lot of money.

The church General Conference in the new Conference Center shouts, "We are huge and powerful!"

In my experience this is what gets the average Mormon off. They are part of something big and powerful and they get off on it big time. These people love to visit places like Nauvoo and Palmyra and view what the mighty and powerful modern church has done to these places that ran their ancestors out. Oh there's a key word ancestors.

Yup. Mormons are obessed with their heritage mainly because the church promotes it or even forces it with it's temple ordinance system. What becomes clear is the church isn't as concerned about selling itself to outsiders but keeping the insiders in. That is why there is a major focus on the church youth.

So this corporation's customers is it's own members and their offspring. It wants families and the whole system is to retain as many money producing members as it can. This is why the church put such a focus on education and it's private universities. The message being sent is: "We are big and powerful and you are part of it! Climb our ladder and you will become a God!" Mormon Inc. promotes from within. Not to mention is has company songs to sing and company activities to take up all your time. Awww but it's all worth it because the big golden Moroni is a symbol of success, power and you are a part of the organization that makes it work. So put on those SPECIAL garmets and wear them with pride!

I am in full agreement, and to support your argument consider: - by Deluded

There is a yearning by members to want to believe so bad that everything is captured as a mystical spiritual expereince. The church has to be first. Examples:

1. How many times have you heard "the church is the largest humanitarian organization in the world." I have actually had people stunned telling them it was a major falsehood.

2. The SLC Temple took over 50 years to build, it was so grand. I tell them about the Duomo in Milan.

3. I remember seeing a brochure that came out with the offical change from Ricks to BYU Idaho. It said the transition had to be inspired because of how smoothly it went. As if a smooth transition of a corporation is proof of the divine. Well I guess the founders of Google or Bill Gats must be holy men. Look at their growth.

4. The church is the fastest growing church.

5. Mormons are the healthiest people in the world.

Pagan post modern

As a member of the church for most of my life,i decided after reading this website and the postings to post my own comments.

I thought ahh what the hell, why not.

I have always known and understood the pagan and or occult knowledge of the prophet Joesph, and his peep stone, seer stone, whatever rock etc. But after many hours of careful research and after digging through many older pictures of temples and various sources, i have understood that the prophet was not a stupid man he knew exactly what he was doing and why. You cannot as a church member pretend that the ooccult connection doesnt exsist, and that the clear indications of its early practice by the prophet and his early followers wasn't there and isn't still there.

Look at the restored temple in Nav, if you cant believe it the small round windows People come on mormons wake up for gods sake. The sigil of the God Baphomet is clearly there, the friggin corner stones are gods from the middle east, and we're supposed to be staunch Christains who uphold the gospel of Jesus Christ. come on i mean lord almighty.

I have fed countless missionarys in my home, these boys are well aware of the occult connection and when they see that they can trust me and that i am not gonna run to the bishop and blab my head off they tell me whats on their heart and why they cant wait to get the hell out of dodge when they get home. Most of them if not all of them are angry hurt and feel betrayed by the church, they know its all a bunch of hookie.

But for the sake of their family they stay on their mission and pretend to believe everything they are taught. But just last week one of the elders told me very matter of factly man i dont even know what i am doing spreading this crap.

They know all of it and are ashamed and bewildered and can't seem to find any peace in what they are doing. Its all based on lies all of it, every sunday i look into the eyes of my family and friends and see nothing but emptiness and sorrow. I say burn all the books close all the temples and like moses said man let the people go.

Lets just go back to the earth based religions we are already following just with a christain title and call it what it is paganism.

We are Jewmocans. We wanna be it all.

What are they Mormons, Jews, or Christians?

Am I the only one who gets the Salt Lake Tribune, if not follow this.

Back in the fall when all of the Warren Jeffs crap came out the church issused a statement saying, "They are not Mormons. They have no association with us." ('Cause we are the deciders..???)

Earlier this week, I pick up the paper, and its Mormons posing as Jews.

Then today I get the big whammy - "We are Christians." Nevermind that we would never have dared called ourselves that before the Olympics. Or that our prophets have called it the "Great and Abominable Church." Nevermind that we are polytheistic and Christians are monotheistic. Nevermind the Nicene Creed, that nearly all Christians adhere to. Nevermind that Christians don't believe in living prophets. Nevermind that we won't acknowlege a cross. Nevermind that we would never be part of Christian history (or that we don't know it.) We are the deciders - We are Jewmocans. We wanna be it all.

My Open Letter to Gordon B. Hinckley (Death to Paprika)

Dear Pres. Hinckley

Do you believe in telepathic communication? I do - and the reason why is that a few years ago when you bravely and boldly announced (just like Samuel the Lamanite on the wall when they were shooting all the arrows at him psheooo psheoo psheoo but they all missed! Ha ha, stupid Gentiles!) that the sisters should STOP wearing more than one earring in one ear, it was like EXACTLY what I had been thinking FOR YEARS!

I kept thinking, "Why doesn't any religious leader get on this earring issue? The Dalai Lama's running around like a total slob in a bathrobe (HELLO? Has anyone ever told him about those little things called PANTS?) talking about *world peace* (so 1969), the Pope's running around talking about faith versus reason (whatever), pastors keep wasting their time talking about the ethics of embryonic or stem cell research, and I'm thinking, "What about the jewelry crisis?!". Thank you for "standing up for something" when no one else would. You are truly a hero, a gran caudillo, a fuhrer among fuhrers!

Well anyway - I thought I should mention the earring thing because to me it means you and I are REALLY on the same page with the pressing moral issues of our day. Unfortunately, I must not be sending my telepathic messages very effectively anymore, because there are a number of other very pressing moral issues I am very concerned with, that you have not addresssed yet. Not that I'm saying you should have - I know you're really busy with the shopping mall renos and stuff; I'm just saying, I thought I would pass along in writing some of my other ideas, you know, just in case they, you know, might prompt, you know, a revelation or something. I'm pretty sure, because of what happened with the earrings, you'll feel exactly the same way I do about them:

1.) Britney Spears: Does she need the gospel or WHAT? No underpants? Her kid falls off the couch and gets a concussion? Smoking while she's pregnant? Infant on her lap while she's driving? LESBIANISM? Shaves her head bald? (I don't remember THAT one on any Young Women's posters!) Gets some crazy tattoos? And now rehab - AGAIN?

If you don't mind me saying, I think we need to get the Missionary Department on this one RIGHT AWAY. She is obviously very "ready" for the gospel, and I know would accept the baptismal challenge without delay. Can you imagine her album of Janice Kapp Perry covers? WOW! Her and Gladys Knight doing duets?! See what I'm saying? "Ebony and Ivory"? What about commissioning Michael McLean to write a new version called "Seed of Abel, Seed of Cain"? It would be amazing! And it would totally shut up bigmouths like that Bill Maher about so-called Mormon "racism". No one loves the negroes and Indians and Jews like we do!

2.) Here is a problem you could get WAY out in front on: Should it be "collectible", or "collectable", with an "a"? The Oxford English Dictionary puts the last spelling first, but I grew up only ever seeing it with an "i" - and frankly, I am now really confused - and I know A LOT of other people must be, too. I'll be driving around, and I see a glass window with that word on it, and (literally) I - never - know - *what* spelling I'm going to see. And because of that, now I can't stop checking. Everytime I drive past, it's like I HAVE to look, because I'm trying to keep mental tabs on "what's happening today" to fulfill the requirement to be "in the world" (but not "of it"). I've almost been in three serious accidents in the last year over this. Would you please ask the Lord to clarify which spelling most meets with his approval? Thanks.

3.) Here's one just ripe for the taking: You cracked down on all the disgusting trollopes wearing more than one earring in an ear. What about a full-tilt Mayor Rizzo-style, (spiritual) police baton crackdown on people who say "reel-a-tor" instead of "ree-al-tor"?

After all, we KNOW how that one's spelled, don't we? It's "REALTOR" - NOT "RELATOR". And once you crack a few heads over this, what say you move on to people who saw "joo-la-ree" instead of "jew-el-ree"? It's "JEWELRY", right? NOT "JEWLARY". People keep saying it wrong! It's just like all the gays who are ruining our precious United States of America one nation under God indivisible with all their putting things where they don't really belong thing - more and more Americans are putting SYLLABLES and VOWELS where they don't belong! It's like people who put raisins on cinnamon buns and in chocolate chip cookies! Where did THAT come from?! (I think I know the answer - and it rhymes with SATAN).

4.) Speaking of food, here's another moral food issue (MFI) eating away at our gospel vitals: the increasing tendency of cooks, obviously with pathetic delusions of culinary sophistication, DUMPING PAPRIKA ALL OVER EVERYTHING THEY MAKE. Mein fuhrer, when, where did this begin? You get your eggs and bacon back - and there's weird spicy orange powder all over everything! And fish and chips! And hash browns! What kind of insane person thought of this?! Some dude comes around with a giant thing and asks if you want "freshly ground pepper" on your meal - why don't they ask if we want a bunch of PAPRIKA dumped all over our stuff? It is SO WRONG.

I know you will agree that each of these moral issues is every bit as pressing as is earring wear (and believe me, there are more where those came from). PLEASE have your secretary F. Michael Watson (no, I am not tittering) alert me as soon as a revelation comes down the pike. I want to be the first to know.

Yours in the gospel,

LaVerl J. Burgess

Orem 492nd Ward, Utah

There will be no health in my navel

Maybe Gordon B Hinckley doesn't look anything like his dad strangely like the African-American who lived next door at the time he was conceived. That is why Gladys Knight joined the church. She is Hinckley's half-sister.

Now I realize that many Mormons will be upset that I am suggesting that Hinckley's mother was anointed by someone she was not married to. If that really bothers anyone...GOOD!!!

This means that there will be no health in my navel, marrow in my bones, strength in my loins and in my sinews, and/or power in the priesthood upon myself and my posterity through all generations of time and throughout all eternity. Because of this, all that I can say to god and to the True Believing Mormon trolls/lurkers is...BITE ME!!!

Why Should anyone in this church "Stand For Something" when Hinkley clearly doesn't?

This weekend I happened to scan-read Hinkley's book "Standing For Something" while at a family member's home (prominently displayed of course). It is published by Random House, and clearly meant to break into a national audience. It is full a couple hundred pages of quaint virtues and quotes, and a numerous scripture references, NOT ONE OF WHICH IS FROM THE BOOK OF MORMON, DOCTRINE IN COVENANTS, OR PEARL OF GREAT PRICE. If you read the book, you would know a couple things: 1) the mormon's believe in the bible, and 2) BYU is the larges private university in the country and everyone needs to know that for some reason.

So here is my question: and I am serious! Why should members spread the story of the restoration and the book of mormon to their co-workers, neighbors, etc., when the prophet of God is even embarrassed about the message, or at least down-plays anything other than the message that we are anything other than mainstream christians? I CANNOT SEE HOW IT IS NOT DISTURBING TO MEMBERS THAT not even once, in a book sent by the Prophet of God to the general public, does the mouthpiece of God mention a Book of Mormon scripture, or acknowledge God's voice in the latter days.

Slowly over all these years, the church has stepped back from early quotes or doctrines of church leaders, abondened old doctrine, and excused it as a part of the lord's refining of the church. It seems the church has gotten so refined that it's leader will not even publicly acknowledge the story of the restoration, or even have God's Prophet spread the message of, or quote from "the most perfect book on the face of the earth," the "keystone" of God's religion; the book which will "allow men to get closer to God than any other book."

So my message to Hinkley and any other leader of this church. Don't expect your members to "stand for something," if you are to embarassed to stand for the BULLSHIT yourself. AMEN!

The Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter Day Saints
50 East North Temple
Salt Lake City, UT 84150

An Open Letter

To The First Presidency, Quorum Of The Twelve, And Presidency Of The Seventy:

As one who suffers from within, I write this letter to inform you of the magnitude of a growing problem. I am fully active, fully worthy, and fully apostate. I remain active solely for the sake of immediate and extended family unity, and to preserve my marriage. The fact that I cannot act upon my knowledge about fraudulent church history and doctrine has created a considerable dilemma for both the church and myself. The church is filled with people like me, and if you do not address this dilemma, the church will collapse from within. This letter, therefore, is an appeal for your consideration of my personal dilemma, and to serve as a witness against you if you fail to act.

I am writing this letter anonymously because I fear the power of your unrighteous dominion. It is not acceptable for you to claim that you personally would not wish for those like me to suffer or fear. The “Strengthening Church Members Committee” has proven its reach in the true style of “1984 Thought-Crime” investigations and “Ministry (councils) of Love” discipline. Yes, I fear you, I loath your tactics, and I forcibly serve you. If you doubt my claim of forced servitude, then you would be wise to withhold your assessment until the end of this letter. I am writing with the futile hope that you (or anyone) will care enough to resolve this growing and unavoidable tragedy within the church; the tragedy of those who know the truth and cannot act upon it without destroying their families.

I come from 1837-convert lineage. I was hyper-valiant in my youth; I completed reading the full set of scriptures by the age of 16; I had all the missionary discussions and missionary scriptures memorized before even getting my call to serve; I served a very successful mission; I attended BYU; I married in the temple; I served in four different bishoprics, high council, stake executive secretary, gospel doctrine instructor, young men’s president, high priest group leader, and various other callings; I was a student of the gospel, and was known for my answers to difficult historical and doctrinal questions; I have attended the temple more than 800 times, and virtually have the whole thing (all ordinances) memorized; I am a set-apart ordinance worker; I am currently serving in three ward and stake callings; IN OTHER WORDS: I deserve your respect, and am not engaged in any unworthy activity, so before you categorize me into some convenient slot, think again.

I have five children, two returned-missionary-temple-married, one attending BYU, and two active in the youth program. My wife and I have lived our nearly 25 years of marriage completely united in our commitment to a gospel oriented home. My wife is one of the most valiant, unquestioning, devoted members you will ever meet. Our happiness in marriage was centered in the gospel. We have faithfully performed all of the home-strengthening practices (FHE, daily prayer and scripture study, etc) throughout our married years. Our children are strong in the church because we as parents gave them that foundation. We are your typical success story.

This changed approximately two years ago. The story about how it changed is long, complicated, and spans years of personal study, personal observation, and experience. Rather than rehearse the entire journey, I will only summarize the end results. Suffice it to say that I have discovered reliable unchallenged facts about church history, church operations, church doctrine, and church culture that have brought me to the undeniable conclusion that the church is not true. Not only is the church not true (meaning that it is not what it claims to be), but the church purposefully withholds (even denies) vital information that would lead ANY thinking person to the same conclusion. Finally, church leaders even boast about the moral and ethical justification for acting this way. This is the behavior pattern of a cult; it is inconsistent with the church’s own articles of faith; and it is the central reason for the growing groundswell of revolt from within. To ignore this fact is the height of arrogance. You are either stupid or you are devious; whichever you choose, you lose.

I have a feeling (since I cannot imagine a different possibility) that you already know about this problem. You already know that the church is not what it claims to be; you already know that Native Americans are not the Lamanites of the Book of Mormon; you already know that the whole story of the BOM is not accurate or historical or even a translation of gold plates; you already know that the Book of Abraham is not a translation of the papyri that it claims to be; you already know that the first vision account is not reliable or accurate; you already know that church history is a warped version of real history and real history paints a pretty bleak picture of church origins and behavior; you already know that spiritual “special witness” experiences are not what the average member believes them to be; and you already know that as prophets, seers, and revelators, you do not possess any such gifts as they are understood by the average member. You receive and even encourage unqualified trust in your special abilities, and you know very well that those abilities are not special at all. You may be talented administrators, but you are not prophets, seers, and revelators, and you know it. Yet you allow members to revere and honor you as such. You are either self-deceived or you are willing deceivers. You know that members believe and teach that you have had personal physical visitations from Jesus Christ, and you know that you have not had this experience. Yet, you are willing to allow members to perpetuate this myth for unknown but unavoidably dishonest reasons. This is a pattern, not an anomaly. You know you are not what you claim to be (or what church culture teaches about you); and you allow this false perception to continue. What does that say about you and your integrity?

So, after coming to this awful realization that things are not what they claim to be within the church, what are my options? This journey was so disruptive and internally tumultuous that I chose to travel it alone. I was absolutely certain that there were solid faith sustaining answers to each disturbing fact. Finally, after I had absorbed the magnitude of the truth, I tried to share it with my wife. To her horror, she saw that her husband had gone into the unthinkable realm of “apostasy”. At first, she resented me for even looking; then she denied the possibility that any of it could be true; then she tried to stand on the shaky ground that even if it was true it did not lead to the conclusions I had made; finally, she clings to the defensive posture that I cannot be smarter than you (how can so many good men be wrong and her imperfect husband be right?). This is where you come into the picture. This is where the church comes between me and my wife in our marriage relationship. This is where the damage is done in countless other relationships. Do you think that you can escape responsibility for this damage? Do you doubt your complicity in creating this wedge? Can you understand how people like me come to a point of powerless resentment against the church? I suspect that you cannot understand such things, because if you did you would use your influence to make necessary changes.

There is nothing more ironic than the saying that “A man can leave the church, but he can never leave it alone.” The truth is that “A man can leave the church but only if he leaves ‘alone’”, or “A man can leave the church but the church can never leave him alone.” You would gladly split up my family rather than allow my knowledge to draw them away from the church. You have proven such intent in both policy and practice.

I am trapped in the church; of that there can be no doubt. And yet I perceive that you do indeed doubt such an idea. It seems foreign to you that I would claim to be trapped in an institution that glorifies agency. But surely you can see the cultural elements (which you support) that limit my options. Extended family relationships are high-pressure control mechanisms. My leaving the church for doctrinal or historical reasons would have a devastating and disruptive impact on the entire family network. You glorify those who leave their families to join our church and at the same time you demonize those who would leave the church for whatever reason. You stereotype those who obtain damaging “truth” as intellectuals and apostates. You encourage an atmosphere of exclusion against those who have information that would damage faith, even when that faith is founded upon false data.

Your efforts of withholding and denying truth have had the result of destroying personal integrity. I know things that I cannot openly speak about, even with those closest to me. I lie in temple recommend interviews so I can go to the temple to see my own children get married, and because my wife is comforted by the image of a temple worthy husband. I lie to my children when they question an aspect of church history or doctrine, because the truth would place them in the same pressure cooker I am in. I lie to my wife because she finds the truth so disturbing. I lie because telling the truth is more painful than a comforting lie. And I learned to lie from you. You are lying to the membership by your silence (and denial) regarding information that is vital to faith. People base their faith on incorrect information; you know this; and you remain silent. You lie for the same reason that I lie; because people prefer a comforting lie over a disturbing truth. I am trapped here because of the culture you have created, and I am reduced to using the same tactics you use at the expense of personal integrity.

Your understanding of the culture you created and perpetuate through established programs is dismal. You preach adherence to the guidance of the brethren; you promise blessings for obedience to programs and leaders; you build a structure of dependence and hierarchical authoritarianism; you inculcate an environment of conformance without regard to individuality; and you do all of this with the stated intent of blessing and improving lives, relationships and family bonds. Your programs have evolved into a culture with the opposite effect than the one you intended; members feel constantly inadequate regardless of their effort; families pressure struggling children with bad advice that comes from your talks and books; you raise the bar, a blatant slap in the face to those who do not fit within your misguided program. Programs flounder not because of poor execution but because they are poor programs. When such negative results reach your ears, you are saddened that the poor members just do not see the vision; that they cannot learn the vital lessons. It never occurs to you that your inspiration and leadership is the flawed element. Either you are uninspired or uninformed, but your leadership is causing more suffering than blessings. But this is not really about bad programs. Rather, it is about faulty foundations. I do not expect you to acknowledge that the church is not what it claims to be, but I demand that you acknowledge your part in the failures. Stop blaming failure on the members. It is cheap and dishonest.

So, I am angry to the point of despair. I do not expect you to do anything with this information, except try to track me down and deal with me through your secret “committees”. I would resign today if I thought my family could remain intact. But I will continue to coax my family closer to the truth with longsuffering and gentle persuasion, and when they can see the real story without demonizing their father, son, and husband, then I will relish our departure and be rid of you and your unrighteous dominion. Someday I will not be so afraid of your influence, and I will confront your abuse of power directly.

Your success is over. You had a small window of opportunity to be forthcoming and open, and you have missed it. History is against you. Science is against you. TRUTH is against you. As you become more closed and protective, you will appear more ridiculous from the outside. Even though you will probably interpret this result to be “prophecy fulfilled,” the result will be the same. Enjoy your last breath of illusory comfort, because it will not last.

I am not alone. I am part of a growing community of knowledgeable members who will not be silenced for long. You have no idea how to deal with us because you fear our power. You fear it because you know that truth is on our side. I would feel pity for you except for the inexpiable arrogance that you currently display without remorse. The law of the harvest will be your undoing. You have sown seeds of benevolent deception; you shall reap a harvest of faithful rebellion.

Disrespectfully:

______________________________
Faithful Apostate - 03/28/2005

Shutting dowm Mormonism - we need a paradigm shift - liquidate LDS Inc.

Every now and again somebody posts that we need to expose the lies, and this will cause the deluded to wake up and leave the cult.

Yeah, right.

I think we need to think outside the box. Mormonism is very materialistic - a side effect of it's literalist mindset and Calvinist roots - God loves the hard-working rich, or the inherited rich, yea, even all manner of rich.

OK, here's the deal. After reading the post about the new LDS Inc ranch purchase in Nebraska, I did some poking on the internet. Time Magazine several years ago estimated church holdings at $30B. Let's use that as a base. I'd say there are maybe a half million adult, active, TR holding TBMs. Now what if all assets were liquidated and distributed on a sliding scale, based on "faithfulness" and past contributions?

$30B divided by a half million TBMs would average $60,000 apiece. Corridor TBMs would get higher than average, of course, since they are better and richer and BIC and yada yada.

So, imagine GBH announcing in GC that it has been a grand and gloooorious experiment, but it has run it's course, and those assembled are asked to vote on whether they wish to liquidate LDS Inc, and distribute $80,000 a head to TR holding Corridor Mormons, $25k for each of their minor children, and income-adjusted amounts to those in less white and delightsome countries.

There would of course be bonuses for ward ($50K), stake($150K), and general officers($500K for Seventies, $1M to $15M, based on seniority for "the suits").

Now this could work! It is based on the 13th Article of Faith, B.Y. Revision - "If there is anything lovely, praiseworthy, or of good report, we will trash it in a New York minute if there is a buck to be made."

The English language includes two closely related words that although related are separated by a discriminating fine line. In our dictionaries one of those words is defined as, “a firm belief in something for which there is no proof.” The other as, “a persistent false belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self.” On which side of the line a belief falls is determined by one thing – evidence. A belief when evidence is minimal or lacking is justifiably classified under the first definition but a dogged belief when evidence mounts against it can only be classified under the second definition. Agreed? The first definition belongs to the word faith while the second belongs to the word delusion.

Recent examples help illustrate when a leap of faith has the potential of becoming a spiraling plunge into delusion. When the disappearance of Lori Hacking became news, because of the lack evidence to the contrary her parents held to their belief that she was still alive. It was arguably a healthy use of faith as it empowered the thousands who turned out to help find out where she might be and it provided some comfort to the parents when their world was turned on end. Then evidence began stacking up against their faith, and although the public began doubting and their numbers dwindled the parents clung to their belief – arguably still a healthy use of faith it teetered on that fine line. But when evidence became overwhelming, in spite of the fact that it was within the realm of very remote possibility that it was all a hoax and she was yet alive, her parents had no choice but to let go of what they so badly wanted to believe. To do otherwise would have transformed their once healthy faith into an unhealthy delusion.

Another similar example with a different outcome is the Elizabeth Smart case. After many months her parents held firm to their belief that she was still alive. At times some felt like their belief was a bit delusional but because her parents felt like there was not sufficient evidence to the contrary they held firm to what was rightly called their faith. It too was a healthy productive faith because the lack of countering evidence allowed it as a reasonable possibility. It also went along way toward keeping the level of awareness elevated which eventually contributed to her safe return when an observant woman in the community reported something she thought was unusual.

A more current issue provides a final example. Within the last few days a new book was released to the public dealing with an issue that’s been looming on Mormonism’s horizon for the last few years and challenges its long-held beliefs. The book is titled Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA and the Mormon Church, by Dr. Simon Southerton. Two years ago I had lunch with Dr. Southerton, a humble, unassuming man who prefers being called Simon, and who resigned from the Mormon Church while still faithfully serving as a bishop in Australia. His life’s work with extracting, cloning and sequencing DNA well acquainted him with the science and its implications. Consequently, when he discovered DNA research on Native Americans that utterly contradicted what he so badly wanted to believe he was left with no choice but to resign his cherished belief to the scrap heap as well as his membership in the Church. Evidence he faced was so overwhelming that it left no room for a healthy faith. The issue that confronted him was the glaring discrepancy between the well-established Asiatic ancestry of Native Americans and the Mormon claim that they are instead of Hebrew descent. This is probably the most important issue in Mormonism because it is on that belief that the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith’s claims are founded and it is on the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith that the entire Mormon belief system rests. I remember learning in Seminary as a youth that “the Church stands or falls on the validity of the Book of Mormon” and I can now add that the validity of the Book of Mormon stands or falls on the issue of lineage.

In each of the above cases, the presence or lack of countering evidence justified the persistence or abandonment of the desired belief.

Just as Lori’s parents badly wanted her to be alive, many badly need and want the Book of Mormon to be what Joseph Smith represented it to be but evidence is overwhelming to the contrary. Such persistent belief in the face of staggering evidence to the contrary can no longer be called faith, as some in our community have lately labeled it. Their hypothesis that a God would change Native American DNA “to hide its true identity” and not tell his prophets (who beginning with Joseph Smith have confidently and erroneously declared many times that they are of Hebrew descent) stretches the bounds of reason. Those bounds certainly burst and the hypothesis becomes a delusion when it’s realized that such a belief also requires the same god to deceptively change all archeological, anthropological and linguistic evidence to point to an Asiatic descent. To top it off he would also have to destroy any evidence that points to a Hebrew lineage, because absolutely none of even minor consequence exists. It is a matter of fact that not only does DNA evidence clearly show an Asiatic descent, so does archeological, anthropological and linguistic evidences, all of which have no reliable data pointing to a Hebrew descent. To imagine that a god would methodically and deceitfully tamper with the evidence, as the faithful have rationalized, cannot be justified as holding to a faith. Evidence tampering is frowned upon to the degree that we consign the perpetrator to prison. How can anyone justify worshipping a God they reason would do the same?

This issue of course isn’t the first time in history when faith and facts have been at odds. But the uncomfortable reality for some is that in every case when faith and facts have locked horns and time allowed the gathering of sufficient evidence to make a reasoned choice, facts have always come out the winner. Always! It’s easy to see why this will always be the case when the matter of faith versus facts is compared with driving a car. One person makes the commitment to gather all pertinent facts while driving, such as the direction and rate of travel, where the edge of the road is, watches for any obstructions in the road, etc. But the other chooses to ignore facts, such as the sound of the tires leaving the road and foolishly opts instead to drive blindfolded, relying on feelings for guidance. Who is more likely to safely reach the intended destination? Obviously the one who relies on facts will always more safely and effectively deal with reality.

While many turn to faith for more than just moral support, at least some statistics show its use beyond that role to be a dismal failure. For example, Mormons rely heavily on faith and prayer in making two of the most important and far-reaching types of decisions made in life – financial decisions and the choice of a marriage partner. Has the heavy reliance on faith in Utah been a benefit in those two important areas? No, not at all. The divorce rate in Utah has been at times noticeably above the national average and otherwise hovers near the average, and within the last two years Utah has ranked number one in the nation for number of personal bankruptcies per capita. It seems in Utah, at least, the use of faith in determining important life decisions has about as much benefit as tossing a coin. Why then use it to aid in a judgment call on any matter of consequence? In such matters facts have proven far more reliable. In addition to its apparent uselessness in making decisions, Utah’s heavy reliance on faith is likely contributing to its growing reputation as one of the most gullible states in the nation, as measured by its abnormally high number of fraud cases each year. Apparently con men consider Utah’s faithful to be easy pickin’s.

This brings me back to the question posed in the title of this essay: Is faith a virtue? The answer to the question depends on which side of the line a belief falls in the faith vs. delusion spectrum. It is a virtue when used sparingly at times for moral support but when evidence mounts against even a firmly held belief, stubbornly clinging to that belief is about as well advised and virtuous as driving a car blind.

Hmm a mormon mad... Oh heck that's no surprise here. I was born Mormon and rasied to be so. I watched the brave beautiful Mormon boys put the female of the species down constantly. With little things like, she is of the weaker sex and we must protect her.

Oh and that secrect name shit you get at the mormon temple through marriage only the man gripping a tight handle on his preisthood muscle can know both his and his wifes name. But no the wife gets no such "power". She only knows her own.

After being beaten by my, well liked and popular among the morom chruch, father I think I can well say I know about the mormon chruch more then enough. You say, he was only one man? Okay, here are a few others, granddad fucked two of his daughters, one he did while she had seizures.

The bishop found out about this, and guess what the holy man did, he told granddad that he should not of and that a lot of praying for forgiveness would stop these bad feelings. hmm still not good enough for you, besides that's all one family right?

Well here is another one, Bishop's son, return missionary, yip-i fucking-ee he raped my best friend. I was later raped by la dee da another Mormon missionary, and these two bastards did not even know each other. I have a few other friends that, in the name of religion were fucked with in numerous ways.

I know the difference between rape and sex by the way. I love sex, but rape is one of the most frightening things a person can endure. And never have I seen it so prevalent except in the Mormon chruch and big city gangs.

No it is not allowed to have polyogamy in the mormon chruch, except in a few fundmental ones. But that says nothing to the fact that the boys are raised to be sexist dirty pigs (I love men by the way, but I have a real justified prejudice against Mormon men) and little girls to be cowards that sit in a little cornor pregeant knitting for Relief Society.

I was 12, got it 12 years old, barely starting to grow tits, when the Mormon chruch started teaching us about marriage. I had a paper route for gods sake! Not a boyfriend.

If they want to teach about dating, then do it, but stop this bullshit of marriage. A lot of people in high school got married right after graduation, most had kids 6-9 months later. Do women get to be women at all in the Mormon chruch. I fucking didn't get myself a voice until I ditched the damn religion all together, and finally I feel at peace about life.

It's been a long, long road. The stress of leaving the MoCult, facing the possibility of my "eternal marriage" falling apart, facing the unavoidable fact that Evergreen's hideous BS was just that, BS, has been daunting.

Watching as my true self has forced its way to the surface and has finally become the fact in my life. Being, for the first time, truly "blessed" as my wife and I worked out an incredibly amicable and wonderful agreement in which we will move forward co-parenting our 3 kids, each forging our own love lives but maintaining our kids, our home, our "family".

Knowing that we will always be best friends, always love each other, and always be there for each other has eased the pain, and made it an almost perfect situation. It could have turned out so full of hate, but it didn't. It could have turned out to be so full of angst and anger, but it didn't. We could have remained fake, but we didn't.

One thing is painfully obvious: We sure don't look like that Mormon family we used to be. The one family that I strived to create, the perfect family as described by the geezer authorities in The Proclamation hung on LDS walls globally.

The sick, demeaning, unforgiving, judgemental statement that inspires hate all over the Mormon world, that polarizes good human hearts into thinking they have to fight for God's rules and God's way. Darkening hearts, damaging family member's lives, and striking fear into the hearts of men and women who are genetically created to love their own sex.

As I was cleaning out my storage room tonight, I stumbled across the perfectly framed Proclamation that was given to my as a Christmas gift by my Dad, signed on the back with love, cherrywood and matting just perfectly so.

I took that son of a bitch out to the garage, grabbed my hammer, held it over the garbage can and smashed it as hard as I could. So much for that sick cult defining MY family. I know what my family is made of, hard work, facing dark fears and triumphing over them, casting of the damaging demons of Mormonism and finally joining reality.

We are a family of our own definition. All the retribution and sick words mean nothing to us because we truly worked it out on our own, no Holy Ghost needed, no praying to receive God's input, nothing so silly as that. Just a mature approach to our given circumstance. Maturity and love prevaileth in this home.

So fuck you, Joseph Smith and all your sick lies, your fake translations, and your fear tactics. Fuck you Brigham Young, who forced innocent women into polygamy and murdered humans for fun. Fuck you racist Mormon leaders who seek to control others. Fuck all those Bishops who counsel gay humans to deny their true natures and force them to live lies. Fuck the Mormon church.

I say these things with all my heart. Amen.

A measure of a society's belief system is how the members of that society act. Our actions are based on a set of rules or behavioral norms. We can track how we feel about the rules by what is outside the norm. For example, if drug use is illegal, how the society views this rule can be tracked by what happens to those in the society that break the rule. In our current society, drug users are arrested and punished. In a society where the law might forbid the use of drugs, but the social norm is tolerant of the use, those who break the law are either not arrested or if arrested the consequence of the violation is mild in comparison with the threat, such as a fine or community service, etc. So let's see how the Morg Collective is doing.

If they really believed:

Would there be any R rated movies shown in Utah? The prophit has instructed the collective members to not attend such shows, and yet, you can go see them in our community. Theater operators would not show them if they could not attract enough customers. I wonder how the "Passion of the Christ" will do in this community?

Would there be any alcohol available in the community? As a basic tenent of the goosepel, the manufactures of alcoholic beverages would find this community not worth the expense to serve such a small minority of the population.

Would there be a "mother in zion" going to work everyday? As we have been instructed by one of the Lord's ointments, the place for mothers in the church is at home and not at work. How is it that the Morg ship (COB)uses mothers for its daily needs?

Could the stores in the community compete with the "home garden"? Certainly since we are instructed to eat meat sparingly, we can sustain ourselfs off of what we produce and not depend on others. Where does Gordy the Dumb Ass keep his home (window box) garden?

Would there be any foul and awful "Coke, Pepsi, Mountain Dew, (caffinated drinks), etc." available in the community? Or, is it that we don't believe and swill the sweet elixir of sugar down like there is no second coming?

Would there be a bankruptcy in the community (except for the evil non Morgs not being blessed for not paying tithing)? Or would the tithe paying Morg community lead a nation in bankruptcies?

Yep, the measure of their belief is in their actions, not the goo that they spew. So if you want to see what they believe, compare what they say and what they do.

Human beings have reproduced sexually for all of the million or two years that they have been walking the face of the earth. Today we stand on the verge of a new age where human reproduction requires only a woman's womb and nothing else. I prophecy the time is soon at hand when woman will realize that they don't need man. That they are happier without us to pick up after. They will realize that most of the problems on this earth are caused by men, problems like war and violence, and women do most of the suffering for it. They will clone themselves, have their own babies without any input from men whatsoever, physical or otherwise.

These children of women will be better behaved and more competitive than those raised in traditional families with their skyrocketing divorce and abuse. They will build a brave new and better society of women exclusively raising other women. They will eventually hunt down and sterilize the increasingly isolated and violent groups that harbor men and still reproduce with what will be viewed as barbaric old fashion sexual methods.

Think I am crazy? Look at what is going on in the schools. Women are the majority of college graduates now and girls are doing better than boys in every measurable way from kindergarden through high school. What was once viewed as normal boy behavior is now treated with Ritalin and most boys need to be on it just to survive our modern schools. Playground fights, spontaneous games of unprotected tackle football and other boy code builders have completely disappeared from the "better" schools. Women are already taking over the fields of sports, medicine, law and theology will be next.

Then increasingly superior women will shatter the corporate glass ceiling and assume the leadership of most business and then government. As technology takes over war, women will gain the advantage over men until they control the military and eliminate it. Lesbian couples are now legally adopting children, mostly girls. This is the model for the family of the future. Modern society is increasingly evolving into something that is incompatable with the basic male instinct for life; for dominance and strength through aggression and physical power.

Even the existance of this website is a sign of the times. There was a time when people like y'all who didn't like Mormons simply went out and kicked their asses like men. Now, like women gossips, we sit anonymously in the dark and peck at keyboards, hoping that our mother doesn't catch us.

These Islamic extremists are the only contemporary groups that are keeping their women in line and we can see them and their likes as the last hold outs before the extinction of man. The Mormons are lead by old men who increasingly resemble old women and will wither away with only a weak whimper.

Man will join dragons, dinosaurs, and dodo birds in mythology. The Y chromosome will be kept frozen in one or two places similar to the way smallpox virus is stored today. The clandestine placement of a Y chromosome into a embryo will be considered the ultimate act of international terrorism. Where will that leave all the religions that believe in a male god when the human race has lost all memory of men? Where will that leave the churches that believe that only men can hold the priesthood and run the church? Where will that leave the idea of god communicating only through male prophets? Does not even the theoretical possibility of this quite likely future event in human history prove that an omnipotent god can not be male?

Where in the Mormon church today are the likes of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, who knew how to handle women, conquer a desert and lead their bands of Danites? Nephi is a man I can relate to, even if he is an altered ego of Joseph, but Uncle Gordon seems more like a useful old idiot for the modern superwoman. Perhaps he already realizes this all too well with his gift of discernment. I don't know about you but I, for one, am trying to be as nice as possible to all the women I know with the hope that they might keep a few of us men around as play things and pets as long as we behave ourselves.

I lived in Utah all my life and let me tell you what a hell life at that. I was a no-mormon for a long time then I went and got myself pregnant. (Just to let you know I married the father and we're still married 11yrs.) Now me not being a member. The LDS family across the steet took it upon them selves to save the unborn child that I was carrying. For the next 8 months I was bombarded with letters from LDS Family Services about adoption. Well it did not work and I am happy to say that my daughter is a happy 13yr no-mormon that was all to happy to tell the missonarys where to stick it when they stop her when she was playing in our yard. NOW I LIVE IN ST LOUIS AND HELL I FOUND THE LAND OF THE LIVING THANK GOD I AM FREE AT LAST. - 08/22/2003 - m_mclaughlin_stl

I think that everyone who has ever been annoyed by door-to-door missionaries will get a kick out of this. Might even learn a trick or two.

The summer before last, I was loading up my car for a weekend trip to Chicago to hang with some old pals, and get in a couple games of paintball. My luggage consisted of two nondescript black duffels, an aluminum briefcase, and a large black plastic gun case that I had converted to use with my paintball gear. I was dressed entirely in black, as is my wont, in jeans, t-shirt and SWAT duty boots. That's when They came walking up the drive. I refer to my victims as 'Backpack and Awesome', since one was a hulking fellow with a backpack cinched so tight it pulled his shoulders back, and the other was a wiry little cuss who used the word 'awesome' incessantly. Isn't that Awesome? What an Awesome day! He did all the talking.

After exchanging pleasantries, I told them gently but firmly that I was leaving for Chicago, and would soon be behind schedule. Awesome began interrogating me as to my activities. I answered each question on a yes-or-no basis as applicable, until he asked me what was in the briefcase. Papers, I said. Then he asked me if that (pointing) was a gun case. Yes, I said, and made a slightly exaggerated show of hefting it into the trunk. He asked what was in the case, and I merely looked at him and grinned, and turned back to heave the duffels in. "and what's in that bag?" Now I stopped and put the bag back down, and faced them. "My Clothes." I said. Awesome, being oblivious to what he was about to step in, says, "Ah! And what's in the other bag?" At this point, I paused to visibly size up him and his partner, took a half step forward, fixed him with the iciest stare I could muster, and softly said, "Not... my clothes.."

It was the first time in my life that I'd ever seen holy-rollers leave in reverse, so as not to let me out of their line-of-sight. Eventually I finished loading my car, hopped in, and enjoyed a hearty laugh. Since then, I've seen Backpack and Awesome in the area at least four times, but they always seem to skip my house. Funny thing, that...

Proving Mormonism is a lie won't stop Mormons from believing in the truth, of their faith. "Mormon bashing" is part of the cement, which bonds the church together. The fact, that people attack the church, proves church doctrine is correct. A codependency has developed. This is interesting to view, from outside of Utah. "Mormons control this state!" This is true. This becomes a mantra, because people fear success. It is easier to blame Mormons, than to take charge of your life. Can you play against a stacked deck and expect to win the game?

I grew-up in Utah. I grew-up in a Mormon family. I kept thinking that I wanted to return to Utah. One day, I am sitting in a brewpub a lunch in SLC. First, I see that stood out, like two hard nipples on a braless lass wearing sheer white top. I was wearing a bright shirt with a floral pattern, in a sea of gray and blue suits. I live in a culture where you can have fifteen million dollars and you won’t wear a tie. You can go out and drop three hundred dollars on dinner and no one in the restaurant will be wearing a suit. After I got out of the army, I stopped wearing uniforms.

I live in the center of 1.4 million people. You go in to a brewpub here and after two pints you’re, talking to everyone around you. I made my second mistake. I attempted to talk to people that I wasn’t properly introduced to yet. As a boy, SLC was a wonderful city. Not on that day: the people sitting around me, where cold and unfriendly. I understood why, after listening to the conversations around me. SLC is a small pound of a city. In SLC you hang out, with the same people that you grew-up with. You have your “small circle of friends.”

It came to pass, that I had a chance to move back to the Beehive State. I would have been in SLC in time for the 2002 Winter Games. I read all three newspapers daily. The Deseret News is a great source of humor. Reading the papers, I read about the division between Mormons and those that aren’t Mormons. Hell, I have cousins that where killer beauties. They live in Kaysville. They couldn’t get dates to their high school prom because they where Catholics. My Aunt Opal married a Catholic. Gene was more honest than any of my Mormon kin.

Being in a majority spoils you. It brings out the worst in people. I lost my insecurity. I don’t want to be around clones. I am not a herd animal. Terry Tempest Williams would have lost her job, at the U of U, if her family wasn’t well connected. If I was writing in Utah and I wrote like her, I would be dismissed, as a wacko California environmentalist. Moving to Utah would give me two choices: conform to the standards of the community or be a social outcast. Eat excrement! I am not conforming.

Besides, like the south, a bunch of good old boys run Utah. They have the gold and they made the rules. Utahn don’t get paid crap! I guess Utahns are programmed, to believe they aren’t worthy. You’re just a piece of desiccated dog-fecal matter. You should be lucky that you have a job!

I wouldn’t waste a lot of time trying to get the Great Salt Lake to part like it was the Red Sea. That’s like urinating up a rope. You can’t teach a pig to sing. You will just piss him off by trying.

Utah is a small pond. A vast sea of opportunity is waiting out there for you. This is American. You have the right to believe to bull shit if you wish to. You just aren’t forced to stand and listen to their nonsense.

The following letter to the editor appeared in the Salt Lake City Weekly, April 4th 2002. Written by Jay R. Waterhouse of Ogden

I have been inspired by Deseret News Editor Jay Evensen's column on Sunday, March 17, 2002, describing the evil four-step progression of "pornography addiction". Having lived in Utah over 25 years, I would like to comment on the social evils of "spiritual addiction":

Step One: The Buy-In-Spiritual addiction begins when Mormon church members emotionally buy into the religious claims of LDS founder Joseph Smith that their church is the Only True Church, and all other Christian faiths have fallen into apostasy.

Step Two: The Conceit-This exclusivity claim leads to the religious conceit that Mormonism is God's Only Faith. By definition, when you are the One True Faith, all those other "nine thousand and nine hundred distinct and separate religions in the world" cataloged in the World Christian Encyclopedia must necessarily be wrong-which immediately de-legitimizes the core convictions of everyone else ("Oh, Gods!" by Toby Lester, in Atlantic Monthly, February 2002).

Step Three: The Countenance-This is that pervasive "I've Got a Secret" expression on members' faces that comes from the private certainty that one holds God's exclusive favor, and everyone else is lost forever. This pious look says, "We told you so. You'll be sorry you didn't listen to us when you get to the Other side and find out you're not part of God's Plan for Salvation. We'll get to become Gods, and get spiritual dominion over worlds of our own, and you'll get to spend eternity wishing you'd bought into the Celestial Pyramid Plan when we gave you the chance."

Step Four: The Consequences-This subtle self-perceived sense of moral superiority is telegraphed everyday and everywhere in Utah. It is served up constantly in media statements by LDS church officials, asserting that the glories of Celestial Afterlife are reserved only for morally worthy Mormons.
This religious exclusivity claim is a fundamental tenet of the LDS religious faith, and the source of the us-versus-them social polarization that characterizes daily life in Utah.

Mormons are convinced that they are ordained to a higher celestial destiny, and that is a constant source of provocation for us "Outsiders". we take further offense when that condescending conceit also causes you to think you are entitled to righteous political dominion over the rest of us.

We "Gentiles", as you disparagingly refer to us, resent the insinuation that your religious beliefs, because you hold them more strongly or publicly, automatically trump our own beliefs. Mormons are always whining about not being understood or liked, and that's where you're wrong, we do understand: You're convinced you're morally superior to everyone else-and that's why we dislike you.

In light of the demonstrable divisiveness fostered by this exclusivity conceit, perhaps the church's never-ending anti-obsession with pornography should be replaced by an emphasis on social harmony. Personally, I regard "spiritual masturbation", which I define as mentally getting off on the self-exalting notion that you are God's Only People, as a far greater social evil. In my view, the negative social consequences arising from the Mornography that convinces some people that they are morally superior to other people is a decidedly more disturbing force in Utah than the negligible social effects of harmless sexual erotica.

This constant anti-pornography drumbeat makes for rousing conference speeches, but the anti-sex crusade is getting tiresome. Sexual addiction is one of those emotionally-charged but poorly-defined Freudian terms that reveals the frequency the user feels is a morally appropriate sexual ration. Sexual erotica, with a few obvious concessions, doesn't ruin people's, lives, it enjoyably broadens their recreational horizons. How about more church emphasis on religious humility and political inclusion, to help remedy Utah's simmering political divisions?

How did I EVER believe that line of bull? Actually, calling it bull is an offense to cattle everywhere. Calling it crap is an offense to crap everywhere.

When it comes to religion, too many people get all caught up in the details. Heber Grant blows off a loud fart in 1929, so what? I want to step back for a moment and take a look at the big picture.

1. The Mormons are a large, wealthy and likely growing group of generally pretty decent folks. Some are descended from Pioneer stock and others are dubbed into it by the bumbling missionaries. Many are active and devoted, but others are typical backsliders and lampooners. Most of the religion now fits nicely into mainstream modern society and it seems to be doing some good, although others might question how much. As a religion it has been sucessful to a degree and will probably remain part of the ecclesiastical landscape well into the future.

2.Mormons have many unique characteristics like all groups of people who set themselves apart from the rest of the world. The powerful corporate organization is one example. The agressive teenage missionary force of 60,000 is another. Doctrines such as the nature of God, Jesus visiting the Americans as a resurrected being, and other tenants are a bit unusual but most are not outside that of many other religions.

3. From a broad perspective, three things about Mormonism strike me as truely bizarre. Things far beyond anything found in decent religions and more characteristic of dangerous cults:
a)polygamy
b)magic
c)control

First is polygamy. And I am not referring to the modern sanitized version the church is currently trying to forget. Polygamy as it really was at the beginning. Dozens of sexual partners, some already married to others, some teenagers, some mother/daughters, swapping around, public denial and complete secrecy, the lack of real consent by the first wives. The whole sorrid mess wrapped up in extravagant religious trappings. Polygamy, the oldest and most worn out Mormon scandal never fails to stun those who dig into it. Polygamy under Brigham Young evolved into something rather decent in comparison, before it was stamped out by the federal gavernment. For me it goes beyond promiscuity into the realm of the sexual predator.

Second is the magic. Small reminants of magic remain in Mormonism today but most of the magical thinking has been eliminated or suppressed. Professor Quinn has unveiled the original mindset of the Smith clan in a book now over 15 years old.(Early Mormonism and the Magic World View.) He attempts to normalize it for that time. But I notice that the Brigham Young family for example, was not that involved and this perspective is extremely foreign to modern Mormons to the point of being offensive. For a new religion to spring up as late as Mormonism did in the young progressive soil of America, and for it to be originally rooted so deeply in magic and occult beliefs and practices is incredible to me.

Third is control. Most small groups that grow into larger ones tend to be well-organized and well-controlled. But for Mormons this went far beyond the usual. In the early days it included extreme violence by secretive Avenging Angels who practiced the doctrine of Blood Atonement, castrated minor offenders and the such. Porter Rockwell killed between 300 and 500 people and remains the most productive serial killer in American history. He was not the only one, just the most famous. Today, this control has been watered down to "Follow the Prophet," lame interviews mostly directed at the youth, an inept bureaocracy, home teaching that seldom works, and a few goofy talks about free agency by the likes of Boyd Packer. About every 20 years they excommunicate a handful of critics. Silence seems to be the major tactic of control now.

Modern Mormons have largely been cut off from these, their most bizarre roots. What would interest me would be historical research on a sort of UNIFIED FIELD THEORY that connects and explains all of these odd aspects of original Mormonism. How is the origin of Mormon polygamy and Mormon magic and Mormon violence related to each other? Are they simply sporatic unrelated concepts that sprang independently from the creative but twisted prophetic mind? Or is there a connection?

I'm going to speculate now. Is it possible that some primary formative event lead to all three? For example, could a young woman who liked adolescent boys and who practiced magic along with the rest of the spooky Smith clan have entrapped the young prophet-to-be at the very onset of puberty into some sort of perverse and secret sexual exploitation? One that generated enough shame and anger to explain the violence, or perhaps turned violent in the end?

I have searched for something like this to explain all of these oddities at once for many years. I vaguely remember that I read somewhere about a young woman named Sally Chase, if I am not mistaken, a wierd young woman in her twenties who happened to live near the Smith family when Joseph was about 12 or 13 years old. She was a skillful seer who helped people find lost tools and animals that ran off with her stone. She might have given the young Joseph lessons in how to use a peep stone.

What was the nature of her interaction with the young Mormon prophet-to-be, Joseph Smith? Is this where the Mormon story really begins? "Josey my boy, loook into my peep stone. What do ya see?" Rustle rustle. "Me without me bloomers hitched up?"

Mormonism is not true. Late one evening after many years of being a former -or ex-Mormon- I realised why Mormonism is not true.

Mormonism, or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not true, is because it is not true. It really is as simple as that.

But there are many Indications as to how and why the Mormon church, by its history and practices, proves itself to be untrue. It may be helpful at this juncture to touch upon some of the points within my own personal journey from Mormonism. There are a number of reasons why I decided I did not believe in Mormonism. I will take time to outline some of them.

So many church officials are self-serving, hypocritical and venal. For a church claiming to be the only true church, why does it select people to be bishops, branch presidents, etc., who are not merely flawed but touching on evil? The Mormon church expects it's members to obey rules that are nonsensical at best and at worst, cruel. For example, it is now known that tea is beneficial to the heart and coffee (not merely caffeine, it must be pointed out, is more effective in dealing with the symptoms of ‘flu than aspirin. How can this be squared with the word of wisdom?

In the New Testament (through Paul) God tells us that "all things were clean" and fit to be eaten, where does the Word of Wisdom fit in here?

The racism in much of the teaching of Brigham Young and more recent leaders. Why have some Mormon General Authorities (for example, Mark E. Petersen) made speeches that made them appear to be racist bigots? Perhaps they were racist bigots? General Authorities have mocked and derided people who are trying to do good, but who are not Mormons. I hav heard this at conferences, so have personal knowledge of this.

Mormonism arrests the development of young adults. Deliberately? When I was an official in the Young Adults I was supposed to direct young adults (I.E. over 18) to follow church approved cultural activities. These suggested buying as much candy as one could for a dollar, having a dress dinner on a flatbed truck, blocking drains –an illegal act- to play with paper boats. The other recommended activities all equally as childish.

Some people have been given carte blanche to “fleece” fellow Mormons by producing tapes, books and junk of no religious value, selling them at greatly inflated prices. For example all Mormons must have heard the low quality tapes of mediocre homilies passed off as religious truths; all sold at extortionate prices. How many people would have bought the books and tapes by Paul H. Dunn, had they known that Mr. Dunn been nothing but a scheming, dishonest liar?

It is well known that every one of the stories that Mr Dunn told that showed how heroic or wonderful he was were either greatly exaggerated or inventions of his fertile imagination.

Although the first Mormon missionaries travelled to foreign lands in the early days of the church, it acts as if everywhere in the world (even those of vastly different cultures) were merely "downtown Salt Lake City." Some of the errors made were so breathtaking in their ability to cause gross offence that one must wonder at any claims to leadership, inspired or otherwise. For example, in 1976 it was decided all Mormon congregations would celebrate the American Bicentennial. A puzzling combination of church and state.

But whilst it was conceited to expect the restof the world to mark this anniversary, it was highly insensitive, or a “calculated insult” to make the congregations of British Mormons sing a song praising the British defeat in the American War of Independence. Especially as the song used the same tune as the British National Anthem! No explanation was made for this extraordinary action. Nor any apology offered. The Mormon church propounded many articles of faith and “laws of God” that it openly flouts. The Mormon church does not bother to follow it's own teachings, so why should anyone else?

Incidentally, there is a curious fact about the Mormon church that no faithful Mormon seems to have even considered or addressed in any serious degree.

Nobody who has a testimony of the Book of Mormon being the Word of God could be a member of the Mormon church. In the Book of Mormon it clearly preaches against bigamous marriages and against “secret combinations”. It would seem that this would forbid "plural marriage" and the Mormon temple ceremonies. Mormons believe that "plural marriage" and blood sacrifices of living animals will be re-introduced. With the Mormon Presidential habit of suddenly changing established fundamental principals, it could be any time in the future.

Some Mormons view the prospect of the re-introduction of plural marriage with something like joy. I will never forget the disgust I felt when a Mormon “husband” was talking with obvious glee about the re-introduction of plural marriage.” Whilst he was talking about this in an insensitive fashion in front of his wife, I looked at her. I remember the expression of abject misery on the face of his poor, downtrodden wife. She was still a young woman, but the strain of having six children in very rapid succession had left her physically and mentally worn out and aged far beyond her years.

Being a “good Mormon” her husband spent more of his time in pointless church meetings, rather than being at home with his wife and young family. I have began to consider the possibility that some Mormons use the excuse of church meetings as ways to avoid dealing with their family responsibilities.

Many Mormons say: "It is the people, not the church. Besides, things happen in other churches." Possibly so. But how could they happen in the only true church? How could these abuses have become institutionalised? In many cases a part of the fabric of that church? Presumably if Mormons use this defence: “The same thing happens in other churches”- they are acknowledging that the Mormon church is no better, or worse, than other churches! Therefore, they deny the very special, sacred roots the founders of the Mormon church claimed for the church they created.

Thus, some Mormons who seem to be faithful, by their actions, appear to doubt the special claims their church makes for itself. How many of these, we must wonder, are actually in high leadership positions in the Mormon church? Why, when church officials break church laws, it is the whistleblowers who are punished?

Mormon leaders have chosen to break laws of the land in order to protect the reputation of the church. Paradoxically the cover-ups have often been discovered and made a bad situation worse. I will deal with a specific example later. The Mormon church does not like bad news about itself. The situation is, when they hear a knocking at the door, they open the door, shoot the messenger and shut the door on the corpse. If anyone inside the building says: "Who was that?" they are told; "Doesn't matter. Message couldn't have been for us. We are perfect and God’s chosen people." Let us re-examine this canard, "It's not the church, it's the people."

That is not true! It would appear some of the people (the chosen) are allowed to do what they want. They are the leadership. Everyone else must follow the rules. For example, Smith was known to drink alcohol whilst preaching a doctrine of abstinence to his faithful followers. The introduction of the Word of Wisdom must be seen in context. Many sects and non-sectarian organisations at that time were putting forward a number of “food fad” bans, edicts and warnings. Originally, the Mormon church used wine in the sacrament ceremony> This was replaced by water due to the agitation by temperance fanatics such as (according to Fawn M. Brodie) Sidney Rigdon.

Coffee and tea were fulminated against long before Smith introduced the Word of Wisdom. The introduction of the Word of Wisdom was, in all probability, merely an example of his “Jackdaw tendencies” being given full reign. From being a rather open and friendly organisation the Mormon church re-invented itself as a fanatical temperance church in order to fit in with prevailing social conditions.

This is not the only time the Mormon church has launched a fundamental re-invention. I will deal with this subject later.

There are always a number of stories "doing the rounds" in the Mormon church. Some are about terrible punishments rained down on Mormons who inadvertently transgressed the laws of the church. Others involved stories of miraculous events, etc. I recall one story which claims the Book of Mormon had been proven beyond doubt by the fact that places in South America still bore Book of Mormon names.

These are know by the sobriquet “Faith Promoting Rumour.” I prefer a term of my own: “Faith Promoting Lie.” Because It transpires that all of the stories were, without exception outright lies. They seem to have a parallel with the more ridiculous stories involving Mediaeval saints. However, the Mormon church was the true church, the Mediaeval church "apostate" and therefore, untrue… Church authorities must be aware these stories were lies. Yet they are happy to allow these lies to continue to be told and re-told as if they were true. Some of them are used in Sacrament meetings and church lessons all over the world.

By a general attitude, the Mormon church encourages an air of hypocrisy in the membership. For example, if a Catholic said to a Mormon; "I am no longer a Catholic, due to the fact that a priest abused a child" I expect the Mormon might say; "Quite right, too." However, if a fellow Mormon told him he was no longer a Mormon because a Mormon bishop had abused a child the reaction would be; "Your own faith should be stronger. Are you going to allow what one person did to damage your future in the Celestial Kingdom? Etc., Etc."

Several years ago in Britain, a Mormon bishop was told by some distraught Mormon parents that their child, had been subjected to “serious and persistent” sexual abuse by a leading and prominent member of the ward. The Bishop interviewed him and he tearfully confessed, "repented" and promised not to sexually abuse children again. The bishop decided the only action required was to ensure he would not be involved in activities with children in the future. He told the parents not to go to the police as he, their Bishop, had dealt with it. In effect the Mormon Bishop had created a licensed pederast.

The man was a “ticking bomb” waiting to explode! The inevitable happened. He sexually assaulted other Mormon children. Thank God the parents of one child decided not to heed the advice of their bishop. They went to the police. During the trial the conniving guile and duplicity of the Mormon Bishop became known. The judge was heavily critical of him, wondering how he could square his duty as a religious leader to the fact that he had, by his actions, allowed this child molester to go free to sexually abuse and harm more children. The media was equally scathing. With justice, it has to be added.

With sickening irony the Mormon bishop was revealed as a police sergeant in the force that investigated the abuse of the children. So much for his oath to “uphold the laws of the Queen” and his promises to “obey the laws of the land in the "Articles of Faith."” In his overwhelming desire to protect the good name of the Mormon church, he took upon himself the right to decide who should be punished or, as in this case, not punished. He took the decision to put the lives of young children at risk. All for the good of his beloved church. In so doing, he proved himself to be a “wicked” man. How strange that this Bishop chose to ignore the remarks of Jesus Christ about people who abuse Children. (Please see references to this in Matt. 18.6. This was also copied in the Doctrine and Covenants, 121: 19-22, although here the meaning seems to have been twisted to suit another purpose of Smith.)

His actions caused the ruin of more young lives. I know of cases in which people have been excommunicated for reporting serious transgressions of leaders of the church (shoot the messenger, ignore the message) yet a paedophile was allowed to go unpunished. I know of Mormons who were excommunicated for having sex whilst not married. Yet a Bishop kept a paedophile safe from prosecution. By his actions he connived at allowing the paedophile to abuse more children. How can this be? “Motes and beams” are covered by Jesus Christ in the New Testament. It seems a perversion that an organisation that boasts of using the name of Jesus Christ to assume that such warnings only apply to other churches and not them.

Whilst I was a Mormon I began to realise that there were far too many Mormons in the Mormon church. But not nearly enough Christians. Whilst there are good points in having an entirely voluntary unpaid ministry in a church, the fact that the hierarchy of the Mormon church being home to many men who have serious flaws (such as the above Bishop) points to problems with this.

Some pronouncements by "General Authorities" I heard, have been mind numbingly stupid, irreligious, offensive and morally unsupportable.

The LDS church is very controlling. In the United Kingdom the welfare programme banned Bishops from allowing those members participating in the church welfare system from being allowed to have Kellogg’s Corn Flakes supplied to them. Apparently the General Authority in charge of the programme decreed that, because corn flakes contained added vitamins they were not to be eaten by the “saints”. When the church realised it had introduced the welfare programme in a period of a particularly vicious recession and that it was costing more to operate than it had been expected the welfare programme in Britain (introduced with much publicity in the UK press and media was very quickly and ruthlessly dismantled very quickly. However, this was undertaken with no notification to the UK press and media. Members who had relied on the church for food and help with bills (in return for substantial work commitments, it has to be noted) were ordered to approach the state for benefits, instead.

The church welfare system in Britain since that time is a rump service and nothing like the service boasted of in church publications and apparently only available to the “saints” in the USA. The Mormon Church claims (or certainly claimed at one time) to be the only Church to used the name of Jesus Christ. This was a canard. Not even close to the truth. This made me realise all was not right with the Mormon church when I was about 16 years old.

Strange though this point may seem, the Mormon Church is too pragmatic to be true. "You don't like our bigamous marriages? We'll stop them!" "We are racist? We'll stop our racist policies straight away! And we will ensure the racist rantings –sorry! Writings- of dearly beloved leaders and General Authorities such as Brigham Young and Mark E. Petersen are buried very, very deep in church archives so that members will not have to bother their pretty little heads about this.”

The Mormon Church, aka The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is reportedly trying to re-brand itself. A suggestion, apparently from within their bureaucracy, is that the church could re-name itself The Church of Christ. Apparently this is being vigorously opposed by The Church of Christ which has been using this name for many years. One might presume that many “traditional” Mormons also oppose this. Is the mainstream Mormon church trying to follow in the footsteps of the Restored Church that has tried to disassociate itself from the worse excesses of their founder?

Incidentally, as the Mormon church (mainstream) has a worse early history to deal with, the re-branding and re-inventing in this case would take a lot more work. What will the next major volt face will be? Some Mormons openly sneer at those who leave their church, alleging they are only leaving, so they can sin. Or is this a Mormon comfort blanket?

As Mormons believe it possible to sin by drinking a cup of tea. Sinning by their fanciful definition is easy. However, the D & C states that barley drinks are to be used. In the 19 century barley drinks meant beer. "Man is that he might have joy" seems, in the Mormon church, to have been replaced with; "Man is that he might obey."

Let us examine the claims of Smith. He claimed to have been called as a prophet of the Lord when he was at an age between 14 to 15 years of age. However, his behaviour (both reported by others and circumspectly acknowledged by Smith) over the next 10 years, is a tale of drunkenness, wild living and evil “black” witchcraft practices which included the sacrificing of animals in the most barbaric and inhumane fashion.

The Mormon church claims to rely on logic. Let us apply logic to the above paragraph. Does it look like the activities of a young man, chosen of the Lord to lead the church of Jesus Christ (more on this later) to re-establish the “true” church of Christ on the Earth? There is “something wrong with this picture.” Christians rightly condemn Mormonism for the implication that our saviour, Jesus the Christ, son of the Lord, was a failure. Jesus told his disciples the church he had founded would not falter, but would continue against all opposition.

But the very central tenet of Mormonism is that Jesus failed. And Smith succeeded. In the cannon of Mormonism, therefore, Smith is considered more important that Christ himself. This view has a basis not only in the doctrines of Mormonism, but also in statements made by Smith himself. Smith is quoted as making the following utterances: “God is my right hand man.” God is his right hand man?

"I have more to boast about than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of *Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet. You know my daily walk and conversation." History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 408-409 (1844) (*Despite Smith’s claim to the contrary there was no church at the time of Adam, which rather tends to negate this boastful claim.)

Was he mentally ill? To believe one is Christ or God is one thing. But to believe you are higher than God is of a different order. As far as Christians are concerned, can there be a more wicked blasphemy? I doubt it. Thus we can see Mormonism was founded by a wicked wastrel who blasphemed against Jesus and God. Hardly, one might argue, a good, solid foundation for the creation of a sect that styles itself to be “Christian.”

There are other issues of contention. For example, a challenge issued by the Mormon church is to request doubters to write a book similar to the book of Mormon. Why is this a challenge? Because everyone knows that Smith was an “ignorant farm boy” and that he wrote the Book of Mormon “single-handed” in a very short period of time. How do we know this? How do we know he was the only person who wrote the Book of Mormon? -Why, because Smith told us!

It is disingenuous to describe Smith as an “ignorant farm boy.” In this context, Mormons seem to intend the term “ignorant” and “stupid” to be, by implication, interchangeable. They are, of course, nothing of the kind. If Smith had been ignorant, how could he learn Hebrew, as he did? How could he have been such a skilled leader? Does anyone really think a State governor would make Smith the ipso facto legal dictator of an independent city state within the United States of America and to make him an official in the State Militia? If he were clearly “stupid?” Of course not!

He was clever. In fact his obvious intelligence was commented on by a number of non-Mormons at the time. The problem is that Smith had been educated by parents that were venal and if not actually wicked, certainly completely amoral. It is, however, possible to argue that Smith did what he did because he had been taught to be that way by his parents, who also corrupted the rest of their family. This point bears repeating. Smith was not stupid. Far from it. But for an explanation as to why Smith sacrificed animals, hunted for gold and tried to raise devilish spirits, please consider the following analogies.

What if George Washington had been taught to be a horse thief by his family? If Einstein had been trained by his family to be a forger? Or if Stephen Hawking’s family had taught him to steal cars? They would have been just as clever, just as intelligent but their great intellects would have been wasted. Am I claiming Smith was as intelligent as Washington, Einstein or Hawking? Perhaps not. But we will never know for sure. However, it is possible to argue Smith had the makings of a fine, personable highly intelligent person who could have made a significant and valuable contribution to the 19 century society of the United States of America, and perhaps the whole world.

But because his parents were intent on enriching themselves by whatever methods they could, they used Satanic practices to do this. They corrupted their children and caused untold misery to millions of people, even down to this very time. Smith thirsted for knowledge. He is credited by Mormons with writing: “The Glory of God is intelligence.” But, perhaps paradoxically, it was this thirst for knowledge that helped to lead to his downfall. It is interesting to note that in fact Smith borrowed or Stole this aphorism from Cardinal Wolsey.

For example, someone mentioned to him the maxim: “Man is as God once was, God is as man may become.” Smith seized on this and used it –with his very powerful imagination- to create an entire doctrine which has ensured that Mormonism is viewed as a fraudulent outsider by mainstream Christianity ever since. But far worse –one might argue- was the way Smith allowed Doctor John Bennett to insinuate himself into the higher echelons of the leadership of Mormonism. It was, arguably Bennett who introduced Smith to the concept of sexual licence and debauchery cloaked by the fiction of “plural marriage” aka “Celestial Marriage.”

From examining contemporary accounts, authors such as Fawn Brodie have been able to establish that Bennett was a highly dangerous, predatory sexual libertine, who cared nothing for the damage he caused –mental and physical- to the women he sexually used and abused. It is thought his abortions caused some of his “wives” to become infertile or to die.

That Smith allowed Bennett to become so influential in the early days of Mormonism shows that Smith, in common with many people who use trickery, was a very gullible person in his own right. This gullibility, combined with his pride, self-confidence and his thirst for knowledge ultimately helped destroy him. The entire basis of the concept of plural marriage which has lead to genetic diseases in Utah and in other enclaves of Mormonism in America and the persecution of many Mormons and the murder of Mormons (by other Mormons) who opposed it, was the desire of Bennett to have sexual intercourse with as many different women as possible, but who required some trickery to cloak his evil ways in a measure of bogus respectability.

We can also see Smith’s desire to learn behind his decision to take the Masonic ceremony and to change and corrupt this into a major platform within the Mormon church. Many Mormons who believe the Masonic ceremonies date back to the time of Solomon’s temple, would be surprised to know the Masonic ceremonies aped by Smith, in reality only date back to the late 17 to early 19 century.

They were the invention of members of the gentry who had inveigled themselves introductions to join the moribund Masonic lodges, a vestigial remain of the once proud and powerful exclusive organisation of Master Masons, started in Mediaeval times to look after the interests of Master Masons. So the ceremonies “appropriated” by Smith were really only 150 years old at the very most when he decided to appropriate them -as a Jackdaw steals something bright and shiny for the nest. This disproves that Mormonism has links between King Solomon and modern times. The blunt truth is that the Mormon temple ceremonies were the creation of a clique of aristocrats who simply wanted something a little more interesting to do other than just gathering together and drinking Port wine all evening.

The gullibility of Smith also shows through when he was deluded into attempting to translate the so-called Kinderhook plates, or when he convinced himself that he could translate Egyptian. Either that or he was of the opinion that the Egyptian language would never be translated and he would be safe from discovery. Exactly what was Smith? A deluded person who thought he was a prophet of God? Or a sophisticated shyster who, with an equally corrupt and venal family, were able to set up a scam that still operates today?

For a more complete knowledge of who or what Joseph Smith might have been, including a list of some of the many women that he married (including some who were already married to friends of his) I can highly recommend the book “No Man Knows my History, the life of Joseph Smith.” (click on the link for details)