Joseph Smith, Jr

THE STICK OF JOSEPH: The Wild Adventures of "Evening Joe" Smith

06/24/2015 - by Book of Mordor at Recovery from Mormonism

Perhaps you know of Joseph Smith, my keen receptive reader;
These verses shall attempt to narrate somewhat of his rise
From small-town boy through many stages to deceptive leader,
And finally, his fall from grace and well-deserved demise.

Through generations in New England, Joe was a descendant
Of rustic Yankee forebears, toiling hard to earn a dime.
Because of this, while growing up he came to be dependent
On common daily labor, but preferred to waste his time.

One sunny day young Joseph walked into a grove of trees;
His pa had said to him, "Go chop some wood" - a thankless chore.
He tripped upon a root and tumbled to his hands and knees
And hit his head, dropped as if dead, and soon began to snore.

Awaking from his slumber as the sun dipped out of sight,
His head was aching, plus he felt some dizziness and languor.
To make it worse, he knew that to return back home at night
With empty arms would, without doubt, arouse his father's anger.

So Joseph told his parents he'd been seeking buried treasure
Around the homestead. Then as all the Smiths began to mock,
He pledged to show the way to win them riches without measure -
And proudly he displayed his money-finding magic rock.

To Joe's surprise, that shut them up. His ma said, "It would grieve me
To think that you were lying, so I take you at your word."
The rest agreed; Joe whispered in amazement, "They believe me!"
And snickered, knowing that his ruse was totally absurd.

So just like that - in no time flat - he had a new career:
The art of gazing into stones to search for hidden bounty!
His services were advertised as "Joseph Smith, the Seer"
In Manchester, Palmyra, and then all throughout the county.

As time went on, he played his trick as often as he found
A willing sucker, glad to pay to take part in the game.
The loot was always cursed and therefore moved itself around
So none was ever seen, and Joe refused to take the blame.

But finally, in Bainbridge, Joe was hauled before a judge
Regarding his extended con and those whom he had cheated.
He vowed to stop the practice, but His Honor wouldn't budge
And brought the guilty verdict; thus he hurried off, defeated.

Soon afterward, he landed at the home of Isaac Hale.
"You see," said Joe, "I want to wed your daughter. But will Emma
Consent to marry me? I swear to stay away from jail!"
To end his stress she answered "yes," resolving that dilemma.

The nuptials over, even though a known convicted crook,
He had to find a method of providing for a wife.
Examining his options, he devised to write a book;
It beat the thought of working, or an honest way of life.

He sent word through the grapevine to his distant cousin Ollie
Who, when he heard of Joseph's concept, threw a huge conniption:
"This - Book of Mormon, as you call it - what a monstrous folly!"
"Relax," Joe laughed, "We'll say it's written in reformed Egyptian."

They plagiarized from many authors, sometimes copied whole,
The peepstone dropped into a hat so Joe could "take a peep."
But when the job was done, they realized that it was full
Of deadly boring prose that made one quickly fall asleep.

To give the book an aura of propriety and fitness
For reading, Martin Harris, Hyrum Smith, and Joseph's friends,
The Whitmers, signed a statement testifying that each witness
Had seen the golden plates (which Salt Lake City still defends).

It wouldn't sell at any price! The drumbeat of rejection
Was just about too much to bear. At last, when Ollie said,
"This simply will not do; I'm nearly worn out from dejection,"
Then Joseph's eyes grew wide; he cried, "Let's start a church instead!"

Plan B caught on and spread without delay beyond the borders
Of New York State. The rotten fruits of Joe's religious pillage
Increased so quickly that he was obliged to issue orders
To travel west to Kirtland, then a small Ohio village.

Canoeing on a river, Joseph fell in, thought that maybe
He might go under, panicked - and then came up with a notion
To cover up the fact that he'd been bawling like a baby,
Declaring Satan rules the waters, stream to lake to ocean.

A mob dragged Joe and Sidney from the Johnson farm together;
The brothers there were certain that their sixteen-year-old sister
Had been seduced by Joseph, so they went to tar and feather
The both of them as Joe screamed out he'd barely even kissed her.

Their acid failed to work, yet Joseph faced a world of hurt:
Some "implements" were brought as he lay stretched out on his back.
The doctor lost his nerve; although left prostrate in the dirt,
Joe counted himself lucky that he got to keep his sack.

The so-called "Word of Wisdom" was distributed, demanding
That all obey its senseless rules in order to be healthy.
(It's now a weapon, used to grade each member's righteous standing
Against their fellow Pharisees - unless, of course, they're wealthy.)

By this time children had been born, so Emma sought a nanny.
She found a girl of sixteen, Fanny Alger, who could stay
As help - but one night, Emma stumbled in on Joe and Fanny
Together in the barn and making whoopee in the hay.

It hit the fan for Joseph then - a storm he'd never known
Engulfed his sad, pathetic soul as Emma's wrath was poured
Upon his head. She had no doubt the fault was his alone,
Despite his plea that it was a "commandment from the Lord."

He left with Zion's Camp; one time they spied an elevation
In Illinois. When Joseph went and climbed the mound himself,
He claimed to all those present he'd received a revelation:
The bones within had come from a white Lamanite named Zelph.

Some mummies and papyri were exhibited in town;
"By Abraham's own hand," Joe wrote. (This put the church in crisis
Much later, for they proved he was no prophet of renown -
The figure he described as Pharaoh should instead be Isis.)

In time the Kirtland Temple was complete and dedicated;
The members filled the building from the basement to its tower.
Because of all the wine supplied, they'd been self-medicated
Enough to see Elijah float in with the sealing power.

Joe testified that God had shown him Quakers on the moon
Who lived a thousand years, and any visitor would find
That they were six feet tall. (What a ridiculous buffoon!)
The congregation loved it, though it seemed he'd lost his mind.

Now running low on money, Joseph opened up a bank
On worthless assets - nothing but another way to rob
The locals, who were so enraged that Joe had made it tank
That he and his confederates were chased out by a mob.

28. They scurried to Missouri, though they didn't stay for long -
About a year or two - because they boasted to the neighbors
That God would confiscate their homes; the land would then belong
To Mormon settlers, who would reap the harvest of their labors.

In Jackson County, Joe asserted that the Eden story
With Adam, Eve and magic trees, the talking snake, and all,
Had been located there for real - not just an allegory
Of sin, but the precise spot of the Garden and the Fall.

The Law of Consecration couldn't furnish Joe a living,
And therefore he concluded that he ought to skim a portion -
Like ten percent - off members' increase (nowadays this "giving"
Is based upon gross income, which is out-and-out extortion).

Predictably, the citizens became disturbed and fed up
With these moronic doctrines and attempts to steal their land.
A group of them decided to fight back in court, which led up
To Joe's four-month imprisonment, despite his Danite band.

The Danites stormed around Clay County, drove up to Far West,
Then thundered north to Daviess, while inciting fear and hate
Among the population - stirring up a hornet's nest
Until at last The Order forced them all to flee the state.

Joe drifted east along the road, back into Illinois
To make a place to rule at will. He never thought to pity
The dwellers of his fetid swamp: "I know it will annoy
Those who maligned me to behold Nauvoo, my private city."

Intending to become a lethal force throughout the region,
Joe raised a standing army knowing that would throw a scare
Into the Gentiles. On his horse before the Nauvoo Legion,
He swaggered like a conqueror ascending to his chair.

Unchecked there, Joe exhibited licentious misbehaviors
With married women, even sending husbands out on missions,
Explaining that by "marrying" him, they could act as saviors
If they would only try out his new "doctrinal" positions.

He slept with Zina Jacobs, Patty Sessions and her daughter;
With Mary Lightner, Sarah Cleveland, and Marinda Hyde.
He tried seducing Sarah Pratt; because he never caught her,
He smeared her, driving Orson to attempted suicide.

As Joe gave out the signs and tokens, he was far from loath
To mention garments, secret names, or baker's hats - a tip-off
That veils and Pay Lay Ales, plus acting out a bloody oath,
Were obviously parts of a direct Masonic rip-off.

Joe taught that if a spirit wanders by to share some news,
A simple handshake will determine if he's on the level.
If he's legitimate, then he'll disdainfully refuse;
But should his hand pass through yours, he's a minion of the devil.

When plates were found near Kinderhook, and Joe was asked to take
A look, he claimed they came from the posterity of Ham.
But sadly that discovery turned out to be a fake;
In spite of Joe's prophetic might, he'd fallen for the scam.

Now Joseph turned to fresher flesh - young women in their teens:
The Lawrence girls, the Partridge sisters, fostered in his house!
His promises of love and care, all blown to "Smith"-ereens;
These clearly were the actions of a lewd, immoral louse.

He summoned Heber Kimball, sending word he wished to speak
In private: "Don't oppose me even if your faith is fragile,
For I've had thoughts of Vilate, bare as nature, all this week,
And picturing her body I'm convinced she's very agile."

"I'm sorry, Joseph," answered Heber, "now you've gone too far,
Expecting me to hand my dear wife over to your lust."
He paused and added, "You can have our daughter Helen Mar
Instead; I hope you don't view this arrangement as unjust."

A gleam was in Joe's eyes as he imagined Helen's roses,
Not caring that to take a girl of fourteen is appalling.
He led her to his chamber, far away from snooping noses,
Then sat her on the bed and issued her a special calling:

"An angel with a flaming sword commanded me on Monday,
On pain of death, to raise more seed. Do this and you'll be able
To save your kin from hell and sin. You have until this Sunday."
Duress drew Helen's anguished "yes" - another in the stable.

A noxious product of his self-indulgent attitude
Was D-and-C One Hundred Thirty-Two, a sordid credo
Designed for grinding Emma down; it proved to be a shrewd
Contrivance often used for sanctifying his libido.

When some among the members asked of Joseph, "Can you tell us
About the Second Coming?" He returned a swift reply:
"I counsel all those standing here, do not be over-zealous,
For Jesus can't appear if there's a rainbow in the sky."

His sermon for King Follett, an occasion to define
The nature of the afterlife, instead made heaven seem
To be a corporation, with gods up and down the line,
Like supervisors in a cosmic multi-level scheme.

The rumors flew around Nauvoo about Joe's pack of ladies;
He gave a speech denying them: "Those traitors may go run
Away and hide, yet - in the end - they all shall burn in Hades
For saying I have seven wives, when I can find but one."

The end began with public charges brought by William Law,
When his "Nauvoo Expositor" called Joe out as a liar
About his vile polygamy. In three days William saw
The rubble of his printing press consumed in smoke and fire.

While on the run and hiding out, John Taylor said, "If we go
To Carthage without weapons, our lives won't be worth a cent."
But true to form, when Joseph and his narcissistic ego
Pronounced divine protection on them, all four gladly went.

The Prophet sat in Carthage Jail, surrounded by his cronies;
They passed around the alcohol, and then both he and Hyrum,
Although quite drunk, got weepy as they bore their testi-phonies.
When Willard Richards took the flask, Joe shouted, "This is MY rum!"

Joe stared around the prison cell, the drink still on his breath,
And slowly spoke, "For all I've done, I feel no shame or guilt.
But what I'm most concerned about is, if I meet my death,
That heap of dung named Brigham Young will ruin all I've built."

The Greys rushed in as they were still partaking of the booze;
Then gunshots rang out. Hyrum fell amid a spray of blood
As Joseph toppled from the window, splattered in the ooze,
And spent his final moments choking down that putrid mud.

The moral of the story: If you claim to see a vision,
Persuading hordes of followers that you converse with God,
Yet act the sleazy pervert, you'll be treated with derision
Like "Evening Joe," now known to be a pure and perfect fraud.



[#12] JS and OC were in fact related - third cousins, once removed. (Cowdery was a 3rd cousin to Lucy Mack Smith.)

[#14] I know about the three and the eight. Since the claims are all phony anyway, it would have unnecessarily complicated things to make the distinction.

[#21] Two children were in the home at this time: son Joseph III (1 year) and adopted daughter Julia (2 years). However, two sons and a daughter of Emma's had previously died, as had Julia's twin brother.

[#36] Marinda Hyde, wife of Apostle Orson, was born Marinda Johnson and was the "sister" referred to in #18. A full 10 years had elapsed, proving that JS well knew the value of perseverance.

[#40] Eliza Partridge was actually 22 years old; the other three referenced here ranged from 17 to 19 years.

[#44] I'm well aware that JS claimed the angel held a drawn sword only, not a flaming one. A flaming sword is more dramatic and is a better fit to the meter, so I took some poetic license.

[#46] This is a useful but not well-known church doctrine. I, Book of Mordor, can affirm authoritatively that JC will not return in the clouds of glory during 2015 to usher in the Millennium, for I personally witnessed a rainbow on February 23. Another year of unrepented eating, drinking and merriment lies before us.

[#51] Okay, I took a liberty here. They drank wine at Carthage. My reason for using rum should be obvious.

For the sake of rhyme and reason

06/24/2015 - by amyjo at Recovery from Mormonism

For the sake of rhyme and reason
I hereby feign derision
For the sake of rhyme and reason.

There's a sequel to be told
As this story thus unfolds,
That old Joe Smith with all his fibs,
His dastard deeds made known.

Revelation's sure a bitch,
Truth be told.

Profit not prophet,
As the latter day hoax
Turns fake golden plates
into gold spun from a web
of deceit,
So the story goes ..

Joseph Smith Now Has A Facebook Account

01/06/2012- by charles, buddhist punk and others at Recovery from Mormonism

Joseph Smith the Prophet Facebook Dislike.

Status Updates

I turned Joe into an Atheist a few months ago. - by untarded

A couple vintage posts from JS's facebook archive.

¥ some people will believe anything!

¥ relationship status: it's complicated.

¥ got back from reviewing the Nauvoo Legion in my new general's outfit. VERY cool.

¥ damn, Emma's dad caught me with her in bed. He came around this morning with a shotgun. The question -- run? Or elope?

¥ Damn. Ollie caught me in the barn with Fannie. He came around this morning with an ultimatum. Deny? Or Recieve Revelation?

Just told the brethren that strong drinks were evil, then came home and had a shot of whiskey. lol! - by reinventinggrace

"Joseph Smith is now in 25 relationships. However, if you are in law enforcement, I'm only joking." - by Helamonster

" This one is gettin' smelly from putting my face in it so danged much." - by summer

So busy collecting shrooms I lost track of who was talking and what they said. But Oliver and Parley need the cosmic help from those little mushrooms so they see the same vision I do. - by mia

"Does anybody remember how many people I claimed to have seen in the woods? I can't remember and I've got to write it down again." - by peregrine

Post to Orin Porter Rockwell's wall: "Go rub out that arrogant Gov Boggs...I hate his guts!" - by darksparks

"My cousin Ollie had this bitchin' idea for a new comic book today. Think were gonna' give it a whirl. Yay for us!" - by flanders

"Just nailed Fanny, nearly got caught...phew!" - by Stumbling

"Why'd ya have to go and lose those damn documents!? @MartinH #comicbookdraft."

Joseph Smith posted in 1820: "WTF? Mom is always on my case! Asked me what I was doing out in the woods alone again. Had to think fast, told her about seeing an angel. She shut up quickly after that." - by charles, buddhist punk


Joseph Smith vs. Thomas Crapper - more for mankind.

Who did more for mankind? Joseph Smith or Thomas Crapper?

02/25/2010 - by Not As Daft and others at Recovery from Mormonism

Thomas Crapper invented a rather nifty flushing toilet? One invented poop and the other disposed of it in a sanitary way.

I know which one I am most grateful to! Crapper and his ilk have saved millions from cholera and other nasties, while Smith's legacy just seems to pester people.

The good Smith giveth, the good Crapper taketh away. - Exmormon Robertson

Has Crapper's temple work been done? And is he now sitting on his throne? - Uncle God

Which is cleaner, the water in a crapper or the water in a baptism for the dead font?

Since Smith started a destructive cult, with splinter groups full of incest and murder, Crapper wins. - OzPoof

Who did more for mankind? - new_convert

I heard that statement several times last year, as the Elder's Quorum was studying the Joseph Smith Manual--that, besides Jesus, Joseph Smith saved more people than anyone in the history of Earth.

The claim is laughable.

First of all, Jesus saved literally everyone who ever lived. Saving 110 billion people is just a bit more important than saving 12 million.

Second, it doesn't include the lives saved by modern medicine. I know TBMs will say that this is only earthly life and not as important as the Celestial Kingdom, but earthly life is pretty important to most people. Your argument (modern sanitation) is, of course, another great example.

Things that we consider conveniences, like modern sanitation, has increased life expectancy by decades.

Bubonic plague killed "nearly 200 million" people according to Wikipedia. It's basically gone. Smallpox has killed 300-500 million people. It's gone also. Aren't the people who got rid of those diseases pretty important in world history?

I've never been so glad to see a Mormon church - Anon

As I have been upon seeing a toilet when I was desperate!

One gives you relief when you're in it, the other gives you relief only when you leave!

Spending a penny versus spending 10%!

Funny. I was desperate in AZ on a Sunday. - mav

I walked in with jeans and saw some looks out of the corner of my eye. Walked in like I owned the place. Did not look anyone in the eye and found the restrooms easy since most wards are the same.

Even funnier, I got rid of too much coffee. Walked out even faster.

Crapper wins butts down. - Bobcat

After a long day at work, I'd have to say that Crapper wins butts down over J Smith who was full of shit. At least Crapper knew what to do with it!

His name is Crap ha ha ha S word. - Rastacat

Without the invention or rediscovery of underground sewers, walking dates home would be a really "Shitty" time. Men had to walk on the outside because that's the trajectory of wash basin/ Chamber pot tossings. Imagine going to a job interview in New York, to some high classed office, then pooik (mud sound), you are splatted with garbage from the weekend before, of Bachelor goo! (puke, bottles, condoms, gooed up pizza etc).

And sex would really suck! Like the chamber pot is stored UNDER the bed. How can that be remotely horney. Unless you were into some really sick shit.

Without plumbing, Baptisms for the dead would really really suck. Can you imagine, dirty bodies from the other boys who get the dunk, and all that goes up your nose? As you are quickly shoved under?

Smith loses to a sewer... You suck Smith you suck.

Crapper. Hands down lid down. - Skunk Puppet

Poor Thomas' surname has become synonomous with excrement. It should've been Smith. - Bro.R.H.

That's a load of smith!

Sorry I'm late, guys. I had to take a smith.

That Book of Mormon sure is a piece of smith.


And the ever-popular: "smith for brains." - 3X

Well since you can flush your Smith down the Crapper, I think we have the answer to that. - flattopSF

Joseph Smith's package - November 2009.

"The Battle of the Bulge" A new volume and movie from Deseret Book and Little Factory Films. The epic story of the power struggle between Emma and Joseph regarding the proper use of his priesthood member in Nauvoo. A must read/see for all LDS women as they prepare for the joy of polygamy in the Celestial Kingdom. Contains the accounts of thirty three faithful Mormon women who partook of this Celestial joy with the Prophet Joseph.

"The text is inspirational and the images thrilled me with a whole new feeling for my beloved Prophet that I had never experienced before. The afterglow of of the Spririt I felt will burn forever in the testimony of my bosom." - Sheri Dew, President Deseret Book

Or as Joseph's last plural wife, Mae West, was heard to say to him, "Is that a flaming sword in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?" - 11/18/2009 - robertb

Everybody knows Joe kept a roll of Nephite coinage with him at all times in case the 3 Nephites needed extra change. - 11/18/2009 - Steven

Dr Suess tells how Joseph Smith dreamed up Mormonism

12/04/2009 - by Shummy at Recovery from Mormonism

Joe liked to have sex
But the girls found him odd
So he had an idea
"I'll pretend I know god!
I'll look in this hat
Hold some rocks in my hand
Tell the sheep there's an angel
Oh, won't this be GRAND"

So Joe told his tales
About darkies and pales
And some wars that occurred
And some dopes took his word
And he said 'By the way
God said you must pay
Cause your soul you just rent
So I'll take ten percent'

'And while we were talking, that god guy and I,
he told me we'd all get to live in the sky
with a whole bunch of girls who would do what we say
and he said I should start with a harem today'

So Joe looked around at the girls in the town
and chose which ones he would like to go down
and those who objected were reminded that
Joe had been told by the voice in the hat
That he must be obeyed, there should be no more strife
And when Joe said "I want her", you gave him your wife

And Joe kept this up (for the people were stupid)
This make believe guy-in-a-hat-sort-of-cupid
As long as he thought he could, longer than that
Until some of the people said "hey, where's the hat?"
We've taken about just enough of this stuff
And then things got weird and then things got rough
And the next thing you know, Joe got what he deserved
But a lot of his BS was somehow preserved
By another old goat with an eye for the ladies
Who reminded the sheep while there wasn't a hades
They better turn over the women for fun
And reminded them all that he'd soon 'breed 'em young'

Dear Joseph Smith - I hate you

12/02/2009 - by Adam at Recovery from Mormonism

I HATE you.

And you are the only person I hate.

I have given this a lot of thought for many years, and have decided there is no escaping it. Gordon Hinckley told his church membership hundreds of times that he LOVED you, and that he could not wait to meet you and throw his arms around you. My feeling is quite different.

If I ever see you, in any context, I will harm you in any way I can. I will rip off your arms and legs. I will cut your face until there is nothing left but a hole. I push your privates into a paper shredder. I will fill your intestines with nails.

In fact, if the stories you told are true, and all will ressurect, please be advised that I will be happy to spend all eternity punching you in the testicles.

I hate you for justifying your sex addiction as if it was the word of God

I hate you because you lied over and over again about the source of the Book of Mormon, which you wrote in order to control weak minded people.

I hate you because you created a religion that worships you and no one else.

I hate you because you excommunicated anyone who challenged your authority.

I hate you because you pretended to love democracy while establishing tyrrany.

I hate you because my mother has contracted many psychological illnesses attempting to cope wih the bullshit expectations you said she had to live up to.

I hate you because you want people to give money to your church instead of the poor.

I hate you because you are arrogant, self-righteous, and self-serving, and instead of recognizing these as shortcomings, you claim they are because you are god's special boy.

I hate you because you incorporated disgusting death oaths and symbols into what was supposed to be my wedding.

And most of all, I hate you because your very memory threatens to rob me of my closest friendships, and even my dear wife.

I would not presume to call you anti-Christ, evil, or anything but a man who was massively fucked up. God may love you. Gordon Hinckley and Thomas Monson may have wet dreams about you. But I hate you. I fucking hate everything I have ever learned about you. If I ever see you, I will pay you back for the burdens you have inflicted on those I love.

And no cry of "Lord my God" will save you.

The Joseph Smith and Emma figurine at Deseret Book - image below

11/18/20098 - by Primus and others at Recovery from Mormonism

"This beautifully touching statue creates a gentle reminder of the love and devotion Joseph and Emma shared, as well as the love and devotion shared as husband and wife. Stands 13" tall with base." - Official description at Deseret Book

Joseph Smith devtion to Emma and all his other wives. This is just SO SICK and WRONG!!!!

Don't let go of that hand Emma, he's as 'devoted' to you only as far as he can see you.

A man's devotion - by Mormonista

I am pretty sure a man can be devoted to more than one woman. Just look at Brigham Young!

The description needs some editing. - by Moniker

It should read, "This beautifully touching statue creates a gentle reminder of the love and devotion Joseph and Emma shared, as well as the love and devotion shared as husband and wife and wife and wife and wife and wife and wife wife and wife and wife and wife and wife wife and wife and wife and wife and wife."

What a tacky piece of art!

Joseph wondering - by Designed4Joy

When I look at their faces, I see Joseph thinking, "I wonder if there's another 16 yr. old I can convince to marry me when Emma's not looking?" And Emma's thinking, "When are you gonna listen to me? I said "NO OTHER WOMEN"...LOL

Isn't he supposed to have a boner? - by unworthy

A great marketing idea by Randy J.

The makers of the figurines should sell them in a series called the Joseph Smith Plural Wife Of The Month Club. That way, they could sell 33 different ones. The Fanny Alger model could come with an accompanying hay barn, Eliza R. Snow comes with a staircase for Emma to push her down, the Partridge sisters could come with a really wide bed that Joseph and them could all fit in, etc.

Highlights Magazine - by BrerRabbit

How difficult would it be to make a Highlights Magazine Hidden Picture of all the wives of Joseph Smith?

Ya know, one could be in the usual tree. One c ould be in his hat. That one might be an optical illusion. Is it Eliza R. Snow or is it rock? One could be in his liquor bottle. One could be on his pipe. One could be on his Jupiter talisman. Three or four could be hidden on the papyrus and let's not forget those Kinderhook plates and Zelph's bones. Fun for kids of any age!

OH YUCK! And Christmas on the way by Ms. Hyde

We'll probably get one. My MIL sent us Jesus as a shepherd one year, then later she sent us Joseph and Hyrum. DH put them on his dresser. After awhile I moved Joseph and Hyrum to his office. I told him, "Jesus can stay, but Joseph isn't welcome in my bedroom."

DH doesn't want to hurt his mother's feelings by tossing them, though at this point she really can't see them anyway. If she sends Emma and Joseph, I think I'll cover it up by wrapping In Sacred Loneliness around it!

The starter for the "Joseph's wives" collection - by Turnip

You know those ads in ladies magazine to collect all of a certain kind of doll or statue or plate, a new one sent every month? This could be the starter set for "Joseph's Wives". Every month for many months to come, a new wife would arrive, carefully detailed, to add to your collection. At the end there would be enough to fill a china cabinet or large shelf as you proudly display the heritage of polygamy.

And if that is not enough, you could supersize it and start the Brigham's Wives collection!

Rather strange - by Ex aedibus

It is rather strange to see the sort of honour Emma Smith is getting these days, given that in the grand scheme of history, it was not terribly long ago that Emma was sort of looked down on for having not joined Brigham's quixotic, though ultimately fruitful expedition to Utah. Also the fact that her son was the RLDS prophet didn't help much.

But I suppose the ideal is better than the reality at least in terms of church PR.

One thing I still can't get over is how my mother, a very devout Mormon, could possibly think that Avery and Newell's masterful biography was somehow faith promoting. My sister cites that book as a major catalyst in her decision to leave.

Emma now popular? - by CosmoMcK

Since when did Emma become so popular? When I was growing up, the church painted her like some kind of a shrew. They're definitely trying to rewrite history by showing them as a happy couple with no plural wives. It IS sick...

Nothing is real by Don Bagley

I like the two martyrs in fake bronze. Fake martyrs, fake finish. Notice also that Joseph and Emma are cast in "marble" resin. Nothing is real. Gee, I wonder why?

Pseudo marble, pseudo religion - by 3X

Wait, where are the other wives? I'm sure they were equally as devoted. - by Summer

That there's a real money maker. - by

33 different sculpturettes to choose from. (Just trade out the Emma figure for one of the following wives to whom Joseph was equally devoted)

Fanny Alger - Note the hay detail sculpted into the back of her dress. "Nasty filthy affair" or plural marriage, Joseph was so very devoted.

Louisa Beaman - Louisa is dressed as a man just as she was that special day in that grove in Nauvoo. Nothing says devotion like dressing you bride like dude to hide the deed— and nothing says 'I'm using my religious influence to score chicks' than hidden marriages.

Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs - Comes paired with interlocking sculpture of first husband, Henry Jacobs. Designed so that Henry can be easily separated and thrown away— leaving Zina for her devoted Joseph.. and then Brigham.

Helen Mar Kimball - 13 yr old Helen Mar is available as a standing figure, holding Josephs hand in the patriarchal grip and also as a limited edition sculpture with Joseph holding her on one knee. How precious!

Marinda Nancy Johnson Hyde - Marinda interlocks perfectly with Joseph (after removing the Emma sculpture, of course). Don't bother looking in the shipping box for a matching Orson Hyde— it was sent to Palestine.

Nancy Rigdon - This beautiful sculpture is carefully packaged so that it arrives in one glorious piece. However in order to fully appreciate this wonderful rendering of the buxom, 17 yr Rigdon, we suggest throwing it to the floor, smashing it, while claiming it was from the "very slough of prostitution." See what happens when we turn down Brother Joseph and tell his secrets???? Bitch!

Order now! Collect all 33 Nauvoo wives and choose from our huge selection of posthumous sealings as well.

Joseph Smith meets Dilbert

12/23/2008 - by B.H. at Recovery from Mormonism

Background: I spent two years in Korea trying to convert people with the Joseph Smith story. Even more stupid, we didn't even call him "Joseph Smith" - the Korean translation for Joseph Smith is "Yo-sip Su-mee-su".

Hypothetical Job Interview

Dilbert at former Mormon job interview. Human Resources Interviewer: Excuse me, but what the heck is this two-year gap in the middle of your work history?

Me: I can't tell you.

Human Resources Interviewer: You have to tell us or you won't get the job.

Me: If I tell you, you won't give me the job.

Human Resources Interviewer: Are you hiding a criminal record?

Me: No.

Human Resources Interviewer: If you tell us what the secret two years is, we promise to give you the job.

Me: You won't give me the job.

Human Resources Interviewer: Yes, we promise.

Me: Okay, I traveled around Asia for two years trying to convince people that Yo-sip Su-mee-su translated ancient tablets made in the appearance of gold. Yo-sip received the plates, which were written in Reformed Egyptian, from an angel named Moe-roe-knee. Yo-sip translated the plates by looking into his top hat at some magic rocks that he had found while treasure-hunting for a guy named Yo-sigh-aah Su-toe-oo-ul.

Human Resources Interviewer: You don't get the job.

Me: Wait, but you promised. Please wait, no .... I'm really hiding a criminal record ... wait ... wait ... you promised.

God's Top Priority: Sex for Joseph Smith

03/30/2006 - by Deconstructor

According to Joseph Smith, God kept sending an angel with a sword to command him to secretly marry more women. This angelic visitor appeared and threatened Joseph Smith's life on at least a half-dozen occasions.


Mormons should recognize an important message from the Prophet Joseph Smith's experiences with the Angel.

They demonstrate God's priorities.

What a shame God didn't send an angel with a sword to straighten Smith out on these other occasions:

- No angel tried to stop him ordaining blacks to the priesthood
- No angel corrected him for writing contradictory versions of the First Vision story
- No angel coerced him into not ordering the destruction of the Nauvoo expositor press
- No angel tried to stop him from ordering the Danites to kill Governor Boggs
- No angel corrected him for repeatedly saying that Native Americans are Lamanites.
- No angel warned him to stop having sex with his adopted daughters
- No angel prevented Smith from claiming to know how to translate Egyptian
- No angel came to tell him what happened to the lost 116 pages
- No angel stopped him from committing bank fraud
- No angel stopped him from trying to sell the copyright to the Book of Mormon
- No angel told him to take naked touching out of the endowment ceremony (that didn't happen until Jan 2005)
- No angel chastised him from declaring he was greater than Jesus Christ

Nope. Angelic messengers were complete no-shows, except for when Smith supposedly didn't want to seduce other men's wives, and then WALA, A MIRACLE! The Lord sends His angel to force Smith into secret adultery!

What kind of God do Mormons worship?

Joseph Smith's flaming sword

I know of no reference to the Polygamy Angel that describes the sword as "flaming." Smith described it as a "drawn sword" put to his throat if he did not take on more women than he already had. This testimony is more consistent that his testimony regarding the First Vision.

Some early church leaders suggested the sword-carrying angel was Moroni. But I'm not aware Smith revealed the angel's identity. Mysteriously the angel never appeared to any of the girls or married women that Joseph Smith married. They took his word that they had to marry him, or he would be destroyed by the angel.

(Remember the scene from Blazing Saddles where the Sheriff threatens himself with a gun?)

The "flaming sword" angel is the one Joseph Smith added to his secret endowment ceremony. As I've said before, the temple ceremony was originally a means to keep Smith's polygamy a secret.


About that silly "angel with drawn sword" tale - by Randy Jordan

Here's part of an exchange from ARM between me and a Mobot named Guy Briggs. Guy wrote:

>Prophet or no, it seems obvious that Smith believed the >Lord had commanded plural marriage, but it took a lot of pushing (once

>by an angel with a flaming sword, if the Lightner woman is to be

>believed) to get Smith to do it.

I replied:

Lightner, and Almera Johnson, and others.
Look, Guy--the "angel with the flaming sword" commanding someone to have sex with
other women is possibly the most transparent, silly, pick-up line ever
invented. It's amazing that JS got a few of his groupies to believe it, and
that Mormons like yourself still believe it to this day.

If an "angel" had commanded JS to sacrifice his firstborn, or to climb the
highest mountain, or swim Lake Erie, as a "show of faith," one could give JS a
shred of a benefit of the doubt. But an "angel" threatening to kill "the
Lord's prophet" if he didn't become a bigamist? Come on, Guy. That doesn't
pass the giggle test.

That "angel" story reminds of a guy here a couple of years ago--- a hillbilly
with two teenage stepdaughters. He told the girls that he had a terrible
disease that could only be cured by having sex with a virgin. He fooled them
for a few joyrides until they told a friend, and it led to his arrest. I view
JS' "angel with the flaming sword" concoction with the same disgust.

>Even after he started it, it was only a half-hearted attempt.

33 plural wives in ten years was "half-hearted?"

Was it normal to marry 14 year-old girls in Joseph Smith's time?

02/19/2005 - by Deconstructor

By request, here's a repost of some information on marrying fourteen year-old girls in the mid 19th Century.

Many Mormon leaders and historians suggest that sexual relations and the marriage of Joseph Smith and his youngest wife, Helen Mar Kimball, fourteen at the time was "approaching eligibility."

There is no documentation to support the idea that marriage at fourteen was "approaching eligibility." Actually, marriages even two years later, at the age of sixteen, occurred occasionally but infrequently in Helen Mar's culture. Thus, girls marrying at fourteen, even fifteen, were very much out of the ordinary. Sixteen was comparatively rare, but not unheard of. American women began to marry in their late teens; around different parts of the United States the average age of marriage varied from nineteen to twenty-three.

In the United States the average age of menarche (first menstruation) dropped from 16.5 in 1840 to 12.9 in 1950. More recent figures indicate that it now occurs on average at 12.8 years of age. The mean age of first marriages in colonial America was between 19.8 years to 23.7, most women were married during the age period of peak fecundity (fertility).

Mean pubertal age has declined by some 3.7 years from the 1840’s.

The psychological sexual maturity of Helen Mar Kimball in today’s average age of menarche (first menstruation) would put her psychological age of sexual maturity at the time of the marriage of Joseph Smith at 9.1 years old. (16.5 years-12.8 years =3.7 years) (12.8 years-3.7 years=9.1 years)

The fact is Helen Mar Kimball's sexual development was still far from complete. Her psychological sexual maturity was not competent for procreation. The coming of puberty is regarded as the termination of childhood; in fact the term child is usually defined as the human being from the time of birth to the on-coming of puberty. Puberty the point of time at which the sexual development is completed. In young women, from the date of the first menstruation to the time at which she has become fitted for marriage, the average lapse of time is assumed by researchers to be two years.

Age of eligibility for women in Joseph Smith’s time-frame would start at a minimum of 19 ½ years old.

This would suggest that Joseph Smith had sexual relations and married several women before the age of eligibility, and some very close to the age of eligibility including:

Fanny Alger 16
Sarah Ann Whitney 17
Lucy Walker 17
Flora Ann Woodworth 16
Emily Dow Partridge 19
Sarah Lawrence 17
Maria Lawrence 19
Helen Mar Kimball 14
Melissa Lott 19
Nancy M. Winchester [14?]

And then we have these testimonies:

"Joseph was very free in his talk about his women. He told me one day of a certain girl and remarked, that she had given him more pleasure than any girl he had ever enjoyed. I told him it was horrible to talk like this." - Joseph Smith's close confidant and First Councilor, William Law, Interview in Salt Lake Tribune, July 31, 1887

When Joseph Smith's son asked Eliza R. Snow the question if she was not a virgin although married to Joseph Smith, she replied, "I thought you knew Joseph Smith better than that." - Stake President Angus M. Cannon, statement of interview with Joseph III, 23, LDS archives.

Short Bios of Smith's wives:

Did Smith have sex with his wives?:

Whatever the average age of menarche might have been in the mid 19th-century, the average age of marriage was around 20 for women and 22 for men. And a gap of 15 to 20 years or more between partners was very unusual, not typical. Whatever biology might have to say, according to the morals of his time, several of Joseph Smith's wives were still inappropriately young for him.

It is a pure myth that 19th-century American girls married at age 12-14.

For example, Laura Ingalls Wilder, from Little House on the Prairie fame, was born in 1867, which puts her later than Joseph Smith but still in the 1800s. She tells of hearing of the marriage of a 13-year-old girl, and being shocked. She also notes that the girl's mother 'takes in laundry,' and is sloppy and unkempt--implying that "nice" people don't marry off their teenaged daughters. Laura, herself, became engaged at 17--but her parents asked her to wait until she was 18 to marry.

You merely need to go to your local courthouse and ask to see the old 19th century marriage books. Take a look at and pay attention to the age at marriage. Sure a very few did, but it was far from the norm. The vast majority of women married after the age of twenty. The case is even true in pioneer Utah among first marriages. Mormon men in their twenties started out marrying someone their own age. Then later these older men married girls under twenty to be their plural wives. But the first wives were the age of the husband and married over the age of twenty. This is still the case is the rural Utah polygamist communities.


Coale and Zelnik assume a mean age of marriage for white women of 20 (1963: 37). Sanderson's assumptions are consistent with a mean of 19.8 years (Sanderson 1979: 343). The Massachusetts family reconstitutions revealed somewhat higher mean ages. For Hingham, Smith reports an age at first marriage of 23.7 at the end of the eighteenth century (1972: Table 3, p. 177). For Sturbridge, the age for a comparable group was 22.46 years (Osterud and Fulton 1976: Table 2, p. 484), and in Franklin County it was 23.3 years (Temkin-Greener, H., and A.C. Swedlund. 1978. Fertility Transition in the Connecticut Valley:1740-1850. Population Studies 32 (March 1978):27-41.: Table 6, p. 34).

Jack Larkin, The Reshaping of Everyday Life, 1790-1840 (New York: Harper & Row, 1988), 63; Laurel Thatcher Ulrich, Good Wives: Image and Reality in the Lives of Women in Northern New England, 1650-1750 (NY: Oxford University Press, 1980), 6; Nancy F. Cott, "Young Women in the Second Great Awakening in New England," Feminist Studies 3 (1975): 16. Larkin writes,

Dr. Dorothy V. Whipple, Dynamics of Development: Euthenic Pediatrics (New York: McGraw-Hill, 1966)

Editor's Note: 12/24/2008 by Brandon at Recovery from Mormonism

In the United States the average age of menarche (first menstruation) dropped from 16.5 in 1840 to 12.9 in 1950. More recent figures indicate that it now occurs on average at 12.8 years of age. The mean age of first marriages in colonial America was between 19.8 years to 23.7, most women were married during the age period of peak fecundity (fertility). Mean pubertal age has declined by some 3.7 years from the 1840’s. The psychological sexual maturity of Helen Mar Kimball in today’s average age of menarche (first menstruation) would put her psychological age of sexual maturity at the time of the marriage of Joseph Smith at 9.1 years old. (16.5 years-12.8 years =3.7 years) (12.8 years-3.7 years=9.1 years) The fact is Helen Mar Kimball's sexual development was still far from complete. Her psychological sexual maturity was not competent for procreation.


I wanted to point out that this math seems dubious. Shouldn't Helen's psychological sexual maturity be the difference between now and then (3.7 years) and her ACTUAL age when married (14.8 yrs: born Aug 1828, married May 1843)? She was the modern equivalent of 11.1 years (14.8-3.7), not 9.1 Still horrible, but at least the math is accurate.

Just though you might like to correct or add an Editor's note.

Thanks, Brandon

Proof Smith was a buff prophet

09/19/2004 - by kc and rmw and others from the Recovery from Mormonism bulletin board

The weight and size of the plates is interesting. The angel Moroni told Joseph Smith that plates were of gold. Joseph described the plates as being 6 inches wide, 8 inches long, and something near 6 inches in thickness. Gold has certain interesting properties. It is a very heavy metal, its specific gravity being 19.3. It is very soft and malleable. Plates made of gold would therefore pack down very tightly when stacked. A little figuring will reveal to the reader that the plates weighed about 201 pounds.

The base of the monument on the hill in New York where Joseph Smith allegedly found the golden plates depicts him kneeling and receiving the 200 pound plates from the heavenly messenger with outstretched arms. Quite a physical feat!

Imagine Joseph Smith wrapping his linen shirt around this 200 pound block of gold plates, tucking it casually under his arm and strolling off towards home, some three miles distance! Imagine him further, running at the top of his speed through the woods, jumping over logs, and knocking down not one or two, but three assailants in the process, all the while with the 200 pounds of gold plates safely under his arm! If anyone would care to experiment, lead is the nearest common metal to gold in weight, its specific gravity being 11.35. Try tucking a 200 pound block of lead under your arm, and running and leaping through the woods with it for three miles! Then ask yourself: how could Joseph had done this if he were not a prophet of God? This is enough testimony for me that he was. (just kidding) - kc

My understanding is that Joseph Smith was one buff dude. He was a wrestler and could whip anyone in one-on-one combat.

In today's terms, he could probably bench press 350 pounds and pose for a bodybuilding magazine. His rippling physique was so admired by the women that he was irresistible and had women clamoring to be "with" him. He could have easily carried the 60 lbs load of plates while hurdling over boulders and tree trunks and leaping over small streams. I'm sure he told his women friends about his adventures with the plates and how he avoided capture.

I'm sure Joseph's twinkly eyes, bright smile, chiseled physique, and hypnotic voice seduced many a woman into his control and embrace. Here's the image to prove it.

All you ever wanted to know about Joseph Smith's sex life...

06/05/2003 - Deconstructor

There's been several questions here lately regarding Joseph Smith's polygamy. Here's some clear answers from Mormon History:

Did Joseph Smith have sex with his wives?

Did Joseph Smith seduce other men's wives? (including what FAIR has to say about it)

How did Joseph Smith seduce women?

How did Joseph Smith justify his sedecutions of teenagers?

What did Faithful LDS Women really feel about polygamy?

Joseph Smith's polygamy legacy still affects millions of Mormons today

Let's describe Joseph Smith's adultery accurately

10/25/2003 - - by F-Bomber

Frankly, I'm tired of the softball descriptions of Joseph Smith's philandering. Polygamous marriage...I don't think so. In reality - it doesn't fit Joseph's situation. Polygamy seems to describe a condition of mutual-agreement between husband and wives (or wife and husbands). Polygamy carries an essence of legitimacy. And in some sense, so does "polyandry" - which the apologists have started using to describe Joseph's acts. But this is more of a new-age term to describe swingers - not a religious leader commanding his female followers to "spread 'em" at God's command.

But given Joseph's mind control over his followers - mutual agreement wasn't possible. He exercised CONTROL - not agreement. Control is abusive. Physically forced sex is RAPE, but I'm not exactly sure what to call "mentally- absusive-coerced-sex." It's akin to rape, but lacks the physical nature. So, until I find a better, more accurate description of Joseph's so-called polygamy, I will use the term "forced adulterous fucking." It describes his actions much more accurately - and his removes from his defenders the legitimacy of "marriage" from his serial sex abuses.

The questions, now posed to apologists, should be restated with this new - more accurate - descriptions:

"Now, why is it, that you feel like Joseph Smith was entitled to fuck other men's wives? Is this part of God's plan - for our religious leaders to fuck our wives?"

Or, "Do you really believe that God had a hand in commanding Joseph to fuck teenagers? How about when it was against their nature, and they were repulsed at the thought, but gave in to the mental coercion? Did God have a hand in that kind of abusive fucking?"

Or, "Do you really think that God's plan was that Joseph should fuck men's wives while they were away on missions (i.e., without their knowledge or consent). Do you really think that God would call someone on a mission - then command Joseph to go over and fuck his wife, while he was out sacrificing for the work of the Kingdom? Is that the sacrifice that God expects of his mission program?"

Or, "Why do you think that God commanded Joseph to fuck all of these women - in secrecy, and without his wife's knowledge? Does God want his church leaders to fuck other women as a part of his commandments?"

Or, "Why would God want to test the faith of the followers by commanding the men to allow Joseph to fuck their wives? Is that how God tests the faith of his followers? By asking if we are willing to allow someone to fuck our wives? Is that the test God uses?"

Oh yeah, now we're using the king's english...And Joseph should be described as his lived - a mentally controlling and abusive sex addict who would use any means necessary to fuck anyone who caught his eye.

Blatant and deliberate misrepresentations of Joseph Smith

06/29/2003 - by Steve Benson

One of the most blatant and deliberate misrepresentations of Joseph Smith perpetuated by the Mormon Church is the statue of Smith, located on the grounds of the Church Office Building in Salt Lake City--the one which has him looking tenderly into the eyes of his first wife, Emma Hale Smith, while gently holding her hands.

To be accurate, the statue ought to include a line of several dozen women behind her, with Joseph lustfully looking past Emma at all the delightful pickings he sampled behind her back in the name of "celestial marriage."


That statue strikes me as one of the crudest deceptions ever cunningly devised and coldly peddled by the Mormon propaganda machine, housed in the Ministry of Disinformation directly behind the statue itself. Its utter falsity is truly breathtaking.

Joseph Smith condemns Cowdey and Harris as being "niggardly"

02/17/2003 - by Deconstructor

I found this gem while looking up some information on Joseph Smith's stand on African-Americans. As editor of the Elders' Journal, Smith blasted the reputations of some of the Mormons he had previously ex-communicated, including Martin harris and Oliver Cowdery's family.

In the August 1838 edition of the Elders' journal Smith wrote:

"Doctor W. A. Cowdery (Oliver's father).... This poor pitiful beggar came to Kirtland a few years since with a large family, nearly naked and destitute. It was really painful to see this pious doctor's (for such he professed to be) rags flying when he walked the streets. He was taken in by us in this pitiful condition and we put him into the printing office and gave him enormous wages, not because he could earn it, or because we needed his service, but merely out of pity. We knew the man's incompetency all the time and his ignorance and inability to fill any place in the literary world with credit to himself or to his employers..."

"...We have often heard it remarked by slave holders that you should not make a negro equal with you or he would try to walk over you. We have found the saying verified in this pious doctor, for truly this niggardly spirit manifested itself in all its meanness.... Nor was this niggardly course confined to himself, but his sons also were found engaged in the same mean business."

"His sons, in violation of every sacred obligation were found among the number of Granny Parrish's men, using all their influence (which however was nothing, but they were none the less guilty for that, for if it had been ever so great, it would have been used) to destroy the benefactors of their family who raised their family from rags, poverty, and wretchedness. One thing we have learned that there are negroes who wear white skins as well as those who wear black ones."

"Granny Parrish had a few others who acted as lackeys, such as Martin Harris, Joseph Coe, Cyrus P. Smalling, etc. but they are so far beneath contempt that a notice of them would be too great a sacrifice for a gentleman to make."
- Joseph Smith, Elders' Journal, Vol.1, No.4, p.59

Did Joseph Smith accuse anyone else of a "niggardly spirit?"

Evolution of First Vision Story

02/16/2003 - by Deconstructor

Official Joseph Smith History, 1832, Joseph Smith Letterbook 1, pp.2,3, in the handwriting of Joseph Smith:

"I cried unto the Lord for mercy for there was none else to whom I could go and to obtain mercy and the Lord heard my cry in the wilderness and while in (the) attitude of calling upon the Lord (in the 16th year of my age) a piller of fire light above the brightness of the sun at noon day come down from above and rested upon me and I was filled with the spirit of god and the (Lord) opened the heavens upon me and I saw the Lord and he spake unto me saying Joseph (my son) thy sins are forgiven thee." See:

Joseph Smith was in his 16th year (age 15) in 1821, not 1820.

Official History of Mormonism written by Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery, published in the Messenger and Advocate, Kirtland, Ohio, Dec. 1834, vol.1, no.3:

“You will recollect that I mentioned the time of a religious excitement, in Palmyra and vicinity to have been in the 15th year of our brother J. Smith Jr.’s age — that was an error in the type — it should have been in the 17th. — You will please remember this correction, as it will be necessary for the full understanding of what will follow in time. This would bring the date down to the year 1823. “I do not deem it necessary to write further on the subject of this excitement. … “And it is only necessary for me to say, that while this excitement continued, he continued to call upon the Lord in secret for a full manifestation of divine approbation, and for, to him, the all important information, if a Supreme being did exist, to have an assurance that he was accepted of him." See:

Joseph Smith specifically names 1823 for the first vision, not 1820.

Joseph Smith's Diary, Nov. 9, 1835:

"I called on the Lord in mightly prayer, a pillar of fire appeared above my head, it presently rested down upon me, and filled me with Joy unspeakable, a personage appeard in the midst of this pillar of flame which was spread all around, and yet nothing consumed, another personage soon appeard like unto the first, he said unto me thy sins are forgiven thee, he testified unto me that Jesus Christ is the Son of God; and I saw many angels in this vision. I was about 14 years old when I received this first communication." See:

Saying "about 14 years old" is the same as saying "about 1820" which does not fix the date by any means.

Another account written by Joseph Smith found in History of the Church, vol. 2, p. 312:

"I gave him a brief relation of my experience while in my juvenile years, say from six years old up to the time I received the first visitation of angels, which was when I was about fourteen years old." See:

Again, Smith says "about fourteen years old" but also says the experience was a "visitation of angels."

Offical version, written by a scribe (Not Smith) in 1838 but not published until 1842:

"So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally." See:

This scribe made the story sound more real by adding clear descriptions of the time. But was this really the first time Joseph Smith had ever prayed outloud?

Joseph Smith's own mother dated the first vision story to revivals that occured after the death of Alvin Smith in late 1823.

There was no revival in or around Palmyra in 1820. Even the Church came close to admitting this fact in the Ensign Magazine. From "Joseph Smith’s Testimony of the First Vision," Ensign, Apr. 1996, page 10:

"Contemporary newspapers completely support Lucy Smith’s history here, recording a community revival around Palmyra, New York, that centered in late 1824 and early 1825. ... Some discredit the 1820 visitation by claiming that Joseph was unreliable in memory, loosely recalling the 1824–1825 revivals that are so easily documented. ... Were there local revivals in the early spring of 1820? This is a loaded question because it narrows geography as well as the Prophet’s own time limits. ... He turned twelve on 23 December 1817, and that year a major revival was reported in Palmyra, with 150 people displaying “the triumphs of grace.” So religious awakenings in the vicinity reached scores in 1817 and hundreds in 1824, as indicated above."

In the article the church does not provide any evidence of any revival in 1820, but suggests that because there were documented revivals in 1817 and 1824, that maybe there was a revival in 1820. But there is absolutely no evidence of it! See:

Instead of looking at weather reports and maple sugar production, Mormons should be looking at the hard facts available in the historical record.

And what is the most reasonable conclusion based on the real facts?

Official list of Joseph Smith's wives

12/29/2002 - by Deconstructor

Some Mormons still deny that Joseph Smith married other women while he was alive. This myth is propagated by countless paintings of Smith's family life that only show Emma.

Fortunately, the church officially recognizes many of Smith's polygamous marriages. This information is wasy to obtain by visiting the church's offical genealogical records site at A quick lookup of Joseph Smith reveals the following church record:

Joseph SMITH (AFN: 9KGL-W2)
Birth: 23 Dec 1805
Sharon, Windsor, Vermont
Death: 27 Jun 1844
Carthage Jail, Hancock, Illinois
Burial: 29 Jun 1844
Nauvoo, Hancock, Illinois

Marriage(s) :

Spouse: Catherine WALKER

Spouse: Sarah SCOTT

Spouse: Sarah STILES

Spouse: Desdemona Wadsworth FULLMER
Marriage: 1842
Nauvoo, Hancock, Il

Spouse: Sarah LAWRENCE
Marriage: Abt 11 1843 May

Spouse: Mary Elizabeth ROLLINS
Marriage: 17 Jan 1842
Nauvoo, Hancock, Il

Spouse: Emma HALE
Marriage: 18 Jan 1827
South Bainbridge, Chenango, Ny

Spouse: Amanda Melissa BARNES
Marriage: Sealed 19 1852 Jan
Salt Lake City, Ut

Spouse: Sylvia Porter SESSIONS
Marriage: 26 Jan 1846

Spouse: Zina Diantha HUNTINGTON
Marriage: 27 Oct 1841
Nauvoo, Hancock, Il

Spouse: Mary HOUSTON
Marriage: 3 Feb 1846

Spouse: Nancy Mariah WINCHESTER
Marriage: 3 Feb 1846

Spouse: Helen Mar KIMBALL
Marriage: May 1843
Smith's Store, Nauvoo, Hancock, Il

Spouse: Lucy WALKER
Marriage: 1 May 1843
Smith's Store, Nauvoo, Hancock, Il

Spouse: Rhoda RICHARDS
Marriage: 12 Jun 1843
Nauvoo, Illinois

Spouse: Eliza Roxey SNOW
Marriage: 29 Jun 1842
Smith's Store, Nauvoo, Hancock, Il

Spouse: Sarah Ann WHITNEY
Marriage: 27 Jul 1842
Nauvoo, Hnck, Il

Spouse: Martha MCBRIDE
Marriage: Aug 1842
Smith's Store, Nauvoo, Hancock, Il

Spouse: Malissa LOTT
Marriage: 20 Sep 1843
Nauvoo, Illinois

Spouse: Fanny YOUNG
Marriage: 2 Nov 1843

Spouse: Prescendia Lathrop HUNTINGTON
Marriage: 11 Dec 1841
Smith's Store, Nauvoo, Hancock, Il

Spouse: Sophronia Gray FROST
Spouse: Melissa SNOW

Spouse: Cordelia Calista MORLEY

Is there any doubt this man married many women while he was still alive?

If the church can be truthful on their genealogy site, why can't they be truthful elsewhere too?

Joseph's Children By Other Women

12/02/2002 - by The Magus

According to one of Smith's wives, Mary Lightner, in a talk at BYU, there were three children by Smith and ladies other than Emma that she knew of. Mathematically, it is possible that one of Mary's own children was fathered by Smith but whether this potential one is in addition to or one of the three she said she knew about, there's no way of telling. In addition, another of Smith's wives, Sylvia Sessons Lyon, on her deathbed told her daughter, Josephine Lyon Fisher, that Josephine was the daughter of Smith, and Josephine left an affidavit to that effect.

Todd Compton's excellent "In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith, Jr." discusses these possibilities in detail and gives dates and documentation.

Compton even documents that Emma may have acted as midwife to the birth of at least one of Smith's other plural wife's child, but may not have known the lady was sealed to Smith much less that the child was his.

There there's the oft-told Snow family story, discussed in Compton's book, about how a very angry Emma pushed the then pregnant Eliza down the stairs at the Smith house, causing a miscarriage and preventing Eliza from ever having any other children.

I see no reason to doubt the word of Smith's own plural wives about the children they had by him. Considering that he had about 33 wives the vast majority young and fecund, you might wonder why he didn't get more pregnant, but perhaps he did. Also, considering the skulking around he had to do to get with these secret wives, perhaps three or pregnancies out of all them is actually quite an accomplishment.

But what would be more conclusive would be DNA testing of the potential progeny. I cannot see how the church would ever allow DNA samples to be taken from Joseph Smith Jr.'s remains, as was done with Thomas Jefferson, but the results could be interesting. Of course, the adroit way the church is tapdancing around the DNA tests which show no Jewish blood in American Indians, suggests that the GAs would figure some way around any DNA tests on Smith's children. Still, the rest of us could know.

The irony in all this is that possibly the only reason we have any evidence of Smith's non-Emma progeny is that around the turn of the century, in the early 1900s, the LDS church deliberately went out and found the evidence when it was in a dispute with the RLDS over whether Smith had even had plural wives. The RLDS responded that he must not have because he seems not to have left any progeny. That's when the church contacted Smith's plural wives and had them make statements about him having sex with them and having children. Mary Lightner's 1905 address at BYU was to a group of missionaries so they could bear testimony to the world that Smith did, indeed, have plural wives and even children by them, to counter the claims by the RLDS.

Joseph's DNA is not needed

12/02/2002 - by John Corrill

Jefferson's DNA was not needed, nor was it used to determine his possible paternity of a child by his slave. The decendants DNA is enough.

By comparing a known decendant of Smith with a suspected decendant you can determine if Smith is a potential father.

A few of these Y chromosome haplotype tests on known and suspected male line decendants of JS (at only $225 each) could shed a TON of light on just how many children JS did have.

Editor's Note: In her biography of Jefferson Thomas Jefferson: An Intimate History Fawn Brodie claims Jefferson fathered children by his slave, Sally Hemings. So Fawn Brodie was "right on" with Joseph Smith and Thomas Jefferson.

Joseph Smith had sexual relations and married several women before the age of eligibility

12/01/2002 - by Adieu LDS

Many Mormons leaders and historians suggest that sexual relations and the marriage of Joseph Smith and his youngest wife, Helen Mar Whitney, fourteen at the time was "approaching eligibility." I set out to find the facts. There is no documentation to support the idea that marriage at fourteen was "approaching eligibility." Actually, marriages even two years later, at the age of sixteen, occurred occasionally but infrequently in Helen Mar's culture. Thus, girls marrying at fourteen, even fifteen, were very much out of the ordinary. Sixteen was comparatively rare, but not unheard of. American women began to marry in their late teens; around different parts of the United States the average age of marriage varied from nineteen to twenty-three.

In the United States the average age of menarche (first menstruation) dropped from 16.5 in 1840 to 12.9 in 1950. More recent figures indicate that it now occurs on average at 12.8 years of age. The mean age of first marriages in colonial America was between 19.8 years to 23.7, most women were married during the age period of peak fecundity (fertility).

Mean pubertal age has declined by some 3.7 years from the 1840’s.

The psychological sexual maturity of Helen Mar Whitney in today’s average age of menarche (first menstruation) would put her psychological age of sexual maturity at the time of the marriage of Joseph Smith at 11.0 years old. (16.5 years-12.8 years =3.7 years) (14.7 years-3.7 years=11.0 years)

The fact is Helen Mar Whitney’s sexual development was still far from complete. Her psychological sexual maturity was not competent for procreation. The coming of puberty is regarded as the termination of childhood; in fact the term child is usually defined as the human being from the time of birth to the on-coming of puberty. Puberty the point of time at which the sexual development is completed. In young women, from the date of the first menstruation to the time at which she has become fitted for marriage, the average lapse of time is assumed by researchers to be two years.

Age of eligibility for women in Joseph Smith’s timeframe would start at a minimum of 19 ½ years old.

This would suggest that Joseph Smith had sexual relations and married several women before the age of eligibility, and some very close to the age of eligibility including:

Fanny Alger 16
Sarah Ann Whitney 17
Lucy Walker 17
Flora Ann Woodworth 16
Emily Dow Partridge 19
Sarah Lawrence 17
Maria Lawrence 19
Helen Mar Kimball 14
Melissa Lott 19
Nancy M. Winchester [14?]


Coale and Zelnik assume a mean age of marriage for white women of 20 (1963: 37). Sanderson's assumptions are consistent with a mean of 19.8 years (Sanderson 1979: 343). The Massachusetts family reconstitutions revealed somewhat higher mean ages. For Hingham, Smith reports an age at first marriage of 23.7 at the end of the eighteenth century (1972: Table 3, p. 177). For Sturbridge, the age for a comparable group was 22.46 years (Osterud and Fulton 1976: Table 2, p. 484), and in Franklin County it was 23.3 years (Temkin-Greener, H., and A.C. Swedlund. 1978. Fertility Transition in the Connecticut Valley:1740-1850. Population Studies 32 (March 1978):27-41.: Table 6, p. 34).

Jack Larkin, The Reshaping of Everyday Life, 1790-1840 (New York: Harper & Row, 1988), 63; Laurel Thatcher Ulrich, Good Wives: Image and Reality in the Lives of Women in Northern New England, 1650-1750 (NY: Oxford University Press, 1980), 6; Nancy F. Cott, "Young Women in the Second Great Awakening in New England," Feminist Studies 3 (1975): 16. Larkin writes,

Dr. Dorothy V. Whipple, Dynamics of Development: Euthenic Pediatrics (New York: McGraw-Hill, 1966),


If you go to and look up the various Smith family marriages -- particularly Joe Jr. and Hyrum, you'll notice that the pre-polygamy age of marriage for most women was typically in the early 20's, just like it is today. In fact, check anyone living in that time period. The idea that "they married younger in those days" is a myth. furthermore, the age of first menses was higher back then -- around 16 or 17, so having sex with 14-year-olds would have been sex with children. - 12/01/2002 - Stray Mutt

William Clayton & Joseph Smith Hitting On Teenage Girl

03/09/2002 - from Deconstructor of The Recovery From Mormonism Bulletin Board

Here's an intesting story from William Clayton's Journal, from this BYU History Archive:

Like Smith, William Clayton was secretly practicing polygamy. He had already married two girls from a family, and wanted to marry the third beautiful teenage sister, Lydia. Clayton, who was Smith's personal secretary, told Joseph Smith of his intentions to marry the fine young girl. Here's what happened, according to Clayton's diary:

"15 September 1843, Friday - Nauvoo

Prest. J.(Smith) told me he had lately had a new item of law revealed to him in relation to myself. He said the Lord had revealed to him that a man could only take 2 of a family except by express revelation and as I had said I intended to take Lydia he made this known for my benefit. to have more than two in a family was apt to cause wrangles and trouble. He finally asked if I would not give L(ydia) to him I said I would so far as I had any thing to do in it. He requested me to talk to her."

So Smith tells Clayton he can't have the teen, but tells Clayton to talk to her about marrying Smith!

So Clayton goes to Lydia for Smith:

"17 September 1843, Sunday

Sunday 17. At home all day with M. I had some talk with Lydia. she seems to receive it kindly but says she has promised her mother not to marry while her mother lives & she thinks she wont"

Then Smith tries coercing Lydia directly...

"21 September 1843, Thursday

Thursday 21. This A.M. he (Smith) came to talk with Lydia but she wont yet consent she wants to tarry with her sisters"

Lydia tells Smith she wants to marry Clayton, not Smith, so she can "tarry with her sisters," whom Clayton has already secretly married. But Smith wants the young Lydia for himself.

There's no further mention of Lydia in Clayton's diary until three years later, and after Smith's death.

"23 January 1846, Friday

My sister in law Lydia is in the way of apostacy. She went to Burlington last year but previous to her going she agreed to be sealed to me for time and eternity. She refused to be sealed to Joseph.

While at Burlington she wrote pledging herself to her contract. When she came home she faultered [sic] and went out to fathers where she got entangled with my brother James and has resolved to marry him. She has lost her faith in the Church as is on the road to ruin, but so determined that no argument is of any use. The family feel sorry but cannot change her feelings. Her mother frets much about it."

So in the end, Lydia doesn't marry Smith or Clayton, but Clayton's brother James. Meanwhile, she becomes a doubter, just like so many of us here. Was this girl smart, or what?

Dr. Shades Examines Dr. Anderson's View of Joseph Smith

11/22/2001 - Dr. Shades

Did Joseph Smith invent the Book of Mormon? An examination based on the work of Robert D. Anderson

The Prophet's Big Bang Theory

11/02/2001 - from Pat McKitrick

Good job Joseph. Thanks for creating the ultimate damnable legacy that the Mormon Church will never escape -Polygamy. The ultimate screw up was not in banging all the women as much as saying it was required by God. The same God who had so much respect for "free agency" that he had to let 1/3 of all his spirit children follow Satan to Hell in the pre-mortal world. But, once here on earth, old God could not sit back and let his "profit" pass away without getting laid by a multitude of women.

" Hi,I am Profit Joseph and I have to bang your wife or else Jesus, the God of free agency, is going to kill my ass." 

How Convenient!

The Stallion Prophet

10/10/2001 - by Great Admiration for the Prophet

I have enormous admiration for the Prophet Joseph Smith. I mean he really knew how to get pussy and a lot of it during one of the most sexually repressive periods of history. We know he made it with at least 35 or 40 of his wives in Nauvoo any time he felt like it and there is no telling whether that number might be closer to 100. Or even higher. He convinced married women and single women, wives of his closest associates and strangers, older women and teenagers, even one mother and daughter to have angels command them to spread their legs for him. He got an attractive woman named Emma Hale who was more mature, smarter, wealthier, and better educated and refined than he was to elope with him.

And later his wife's best friend (and the greatest mind in Mormon history), the frigid Eliza R. Snow to marry him and get pregant. He organized a rapidly expanding church which greatly enhanced his access to more women. We will never know how many Fanny Algers (cute teenagers) he managed to seduce secretly from the time he first started going out at night to dig for buried treasures, which sounds to me like about the best excuse to chase wild women I have ever heard. He was so irresistable that he even got hundreds of women to be sealed to him after he was murdered for eternal sex in the next life.

And he managed to redefine heaven as a place of everlasting sexual intercourse with innumerable young attractive women giving joy and happiness we can scarcely conceive of in this dreary world. Producing so many children that we would have to create worlds without number to provide places for them to live. It almost blows my mind.

Can you think of any modern human "stallion" featured in any of the soft porn magazines for example, that is anywhere near his equal in creative heterosexual experience and skill at unlikely seduction? His critics are plain jealous that they will never get even 1% of the action he did. Keep it up Brother Joseph.

Joseph Smith's Fruit Cake

07/04/2001 - by Cezoram

In his time, the Indians were a big question: Where did they come from? Mummies from mysterious Egypt were shown around like a "freak show," and raised a lot of questions. Without TV and Sony PlayStation, the Smiths spent many evenings discussing and arguing about religions and their various teachings. All this, plus a certain mental condition inherited from his dad's side gave young Joe's brain a royal zapping.

Voila! The Book of Mormon is given to answer just the questions of the day! The D&C comes along to refine things and create avenues for the exercise of certain crimes and lusts. The Book of Abraham is revealed to give us a glimpse of the eternal "meat."

Then he rips at a nearby Masonic lodge, doing in a couple of days what normally takes years to do... and Presto! the temple endowment is revealed.

He needed ingredients for his cake. And what a Marvelous Fruitcake it is!

The Lost 116 Pages - Lehi's Story

05/27/2001 by Deconstructor of the recovery bulletin board

The first 116 pages were a dictation of Lehi's version of his dream and story. Smith gave the pages to Harris, who's wife hated Smith and was violently opposed to Harris's involvement. Harris kept the pages in a drawer in his house and admitted to showing them to many visitors to his house. One day he went to show them to a visitor, and the drawer was empty.

More than likely Harris's wife destroyed the pages in an attempt to thwart Smith from duping Harris. Smith wanted Harris to give him money to continue the dictation. Unfortunately, Harris continued to support Smith and sold his home to help pay for the first printing of the BoM. At the same time, Harris's wife left him because she got fed up with his drunken fits and abusive behavior.

Smith, when learning of the lost pages, went back to work dictating the BoM story. But he restarted the book using Nephi's version of the story, which conveniently started immediately after the part Smith had already dictated.

The whole lost pages saga is a stinking red herring to the fact that Smith was not being directed by God Almighty. If the pages were lost, why couldn't Smith use his seer stone to find them? If they were destroyed, why didn't God tell him not to worry about it? If God really was protecting him from someone tryng to confound the dictation, then why didn't that happen? Even my TBM Dad has had a hard time swallowing the story.

Another con man, Mark Hoffman, had a master plan to take down the church by producing a damning version of the 116 pages. All of his forgery work was building up to being so credible as a document researcher, that when he brought forth the 116 pages that nobody would doubt their authenticity. Up until the bombings, Church Apostles accepted all of his forgeries as authentic. They fell for Hoffman's con as sure as Harris fell for Smith's!

Section 10 of the D&C covers the incident. Smith's recorded revelation states that God commands him flip the gold plates to the Nephi account, which is a copy of the Lehi version he has been dictating. Smith claims God tells him that the Lehi account was just an abridgement of the Nephi version anyway, so skipping the rest of the Lehi account is better anyway.

Later, in the Book of Mormon you can read Mormon writting that God tells him to include the Lehi and Nephi account of the same events, but doesn't understand why. Mormon concludes that it must be for some special future reason. Thus we see the marvelous hand of God, anticipating hundreds of years earlier that Harris would lose the 116 pages. It seems to be easier for God to tell his ancient prophet Mormon to include two copies of the same story in the plates, instead of just directing his modern prophet Smith to where the 116 pages were lost. Or better yet, why couldn't he just "re-translate" the 116 pages again, word for word? He still had the plates with the 116 pages content. Isn't revelation good enough to translate the same plates with the same result?

Wake up people, Smith was a fraud!

Using The Poor Man's Crystal Ball

05/26/2001 by Deconstructor of the recovery bulletin board

The term "Urim and Thumim" is used several times in the Old Testament. Bible dictionaries from 1800-1820 describe them as goggle-type devices. Since then, scholars have debuked that. But folk magic lore around 1800-1820 classified the "Urim and Thumim" as equivalent to crystal balls, magic mirros and seer stones. A seer stone is a "poor man's crystal ball."

The most fascinating thing is, Smith did not use the "Urim and Thumim" to dictate the any of the BoM we have today! According to many accounts, including Smith's, the angel Moroni came a got the Urim and Thumim from Smith after Martin Harris lost the first 116 pages. Smith had used the Urim and Thumim for those 116 pages, but those were never recovered. Smith used his seer stone to dictate all of the BoM we have today.

See this link for details:

Smith also used his seer stone for all of the revelations in the D&C that say they were revealed by use of the Urim and Thumim. The original revelations recorded them coming from the seer stone, but those references were later changed to "Urim and Thumim" after Smith's death.

See this link for more changes in LDS scripture:

Joseph Smith's spotter during his polygamous behavior.

Comment Section

Civil law - Emma is the only wife. All property went to Emma and the LDS Church bought property only from the Smith family because the other women had no legal claim to the property. The non-civil marriages to girls & women are a fact but likely not a complete record. Emma states she is the only wife. Joseph Smith Jr. had sexual relations with other girls & women and perhaps some quick romances that did not require saying marriage vows, any sexual relations except with Emma is wrong and not honest to her.

His behavior of having sex with many under age girls is criminal with or without a marriage vow - they are not legitimate civil marriages. If you doubt it then try doing it and let the courts and prison system convince you. Prison was where he was going to spend alot of time if he had lived. The courts will convict this type of criminal behavior.

It would have been better if he had lived and let the events run their course. He died as a prisoner in jail in possession of hand guns he used in a shot out.

Final note:

The LDS church was quick to excommunicate Paul H. Dunn for his baseball stories when he never played for the teams he claimed to have played for. Joseph Smith Jr was dishonest and had sex with under age girls. What a double standard. Why not make all LDS church history available on the church website about Joseph Smith Jr. and get his DNA done etc? - 10/15/2009 - truthseeker

Dear author of this webpage,

Truth is something which humans always will battle with. History often is forged, altered and we need to puzzle to get to something "close to truth" but we probably never will have "the truth" except we would have lived at this time, witnessed as much as possible to judge what the truth could be. Also then - as we can experience today - we have problems in seeing the truth.

Some of your exposed issues might be right - some of them might be "out of context" and therefore questionable. And some of them might be simply wrong. However you fully trust on what exists in testimonies. There are indications that JS caused the anger of the people and possibly suffered their actions - not only because god wanted him to suffer but he provoked them and not only with the gospel. . Prophets have been humans as we are and therefore made mistakes and have been punished. But that does not mean that they have not been the messengers of god.

However I agree - it is difficult for us to imagine that somebody who is misbehaving (no matter what) can be a messenger of god. Who else could our father in heaven and our lord Jesus Christ have chosen and choose but man - the carnal failure! IN all religions leaders have failed bitterly - in all religions.. Joseph Smith at least (if all you put here in this page were true) left the bible as it is, respected the bible but just added another testimony which funnily "in other Stories" just complements the bible. So he wasn't that bad as others was he?

In that sense possibly (look at my wording - I never claim anything for sure but possible - unlike you) we have to accept that gods carnal messengers have been "human disasters" as we are - but they did their job. Difficult to understand?

One thing is for sure: Your posted site, your exposed testimonials here is not one of the ethical finest way on putting light on historical events. Your site is but full of anger and negative energy against one person. Wherever there is so much anger and possibly hate there is no room for sound judgment.

Nevertheless - I will ponder upon many of your positions, paragraphs and see what sense this part of history could make. You as author deserve the right of attention and the right of receive critics and response. In the end it is only you who will take the consequences of your possible wrong-doing i.e. causing turmoil on a matter which today has no impact on human life today. No man will judge you - but god!

Joseph Smith has caused something good - and let us assume for a minute that he has failed in gods most important commandments - the fact remains that he caused something good. 13 million Later Day Saints today do good work, they make people better, their society might not be perfect but relatively seen they would never start a war, kill but live a peaceful and loving live in caring societies. FACT - or do you also find dozens of reports about the recognized (by many countries - also in Europe) Latter Day Saints exercising the culture of adultery, polygamy etc. ?? I believe that also there might be some black sheep - last but not least also they are humans and try to fight Satans power of destruction (also in some of them !). I have seen the Mormon's works in many countries of this planet and they are great, generous and high in value (education, voluntary help etc.).

Think of what your work here on this website has caused? Good or bad ? Love or hate?

Regards - KJW - 11/16/2008

I agree with what you said about Joseph Smith's personal life. However, this has no bearing on him being a prophet. In fact, many Old Testament prophets had multiple wives as a means of procreation. JS was not perfect nor did he claim to be. Our savior, Jesus Christ, is the only one that will ever have that distinction. I believe that all denominations have truths and purposes in bringing about the kingdom of God. The dissention and disrespect between us is unproductive and ungodly. - 05/15/2008 - etraderbnker

I came upon your page by accident. I would point out a few things to you.

First - you talk of a comment from Joseph's close counselor William Law. William Law is a well know EXCOMUNICATED member who was one of the leaders of the apostates so he was obviously NOT going to speak well or truthfully of Joseph. By the way, if memory serves, William Law wanted to go about marrying his own wives and Jospeh Smith refused to grant him permission because he know that it was out of lust not obedience and that is how he started hating Joseph. The scriptures make it clear that only one can hold the keys to grant plural marriage BECAUSE if the right is just allowed to all it is soon used for the wrong reasons (like the splinter groups of polygomous groups.) Some have thought that it was William Law that led the mob that killed Joseph. Even if he did say that the girl gave him pleasure this does not mean sexual pleasure. Listen or read any books from that time period. Pleasure is used to say you any person or activity likable, enjoyable, sweet whatever. It doesn't have anything to do with sex.

Second - and this shows your misinformation, lets talk about the printing press. The Saints had had there printing press destroyed on many occasions. At the time of the incident you speak of the Saints were already in Nauvoo. It was supposed to be a city of saints for the saints by the saints to escape there persecutors who had hounded, raped, murdered and burned there houses. They had been driven, literally at gunpoint, out of many settlements. They were GIVEN the land in Nauvoo to settle on because it was mosquito infested and no one else wanted it. The PRINTING PRESS you speak of was in there city -Jospeh Smith was the rightful govenor at the time. William Law and other apostates were printing all kinds of lies and slander about Joseph and the leaders. My ancestors lived through all of this.. YOU sit there self-righteously saying Joseph deserves to be killed for destroying a printing press! Please - they had been driven from cities, there people had been killed, there wives raped. They had gone all the way to the White house to seek redress for the unfair and criminal way they had been treated (these visits are historical by the way and absolutely true) and no one lifted a finger to help the Saits. Govenor Boggs had literally made it legal to shoot a Mormon just for being a Mormon. And all you can look at is a printing press within the confines of a city of which the Saints themselves had built. Please!

Third - Joseph's commment about negros in white skin is actually saying that, while most of his day associated bad behavior and negative qualities to blacks, he found many of them to be more "white" than the whites. It was actually a compliment to blacks! And if you think it terrible that it should be claimed that dark skins came as a result of a curse from God you need to read the bible again. What do you think was the "Mark" placed on Cain. And if we all came from Adam and Eve exactly HOW did we get so many colors and races?

Third - we do not really have much information about the polygamy other than the men were definately hesitant. We DO know that many were sealed WITHOUT HAVING SEX. If you look at the list you have in your document you will see of many people sealed to Joseph AFTER HIS DEATH. Obviously he was not having sex with them. Brigham Young also stated categorically that many of the women he (Brigham Young) was sealed to were "older than his mother" and found it ridiculous that people would think that he was having "marital relations" with them. This practice shows that the leaders themselves BELEIVED that sealings were real and really would have force after this life. IF they knew if was a big hoax than why bother being sealed to people with whom they could not have sex with in this life. As to age - how do you know how old the girls were? Many people wanted to be sealed to Jospeh - they could have made the whole thing up for all we know. Emma herself said that many people were making up lies. Do I think he had polygomous wives. Yes but to whom we all speculate. There has been exhaustive searches and all come up with just maybes. And if polygamy is always wrong then what of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, Solomon and David - all were polygomous. And we won't even get into concubines of the day. I say - LET US SORT IT OUT WITH GOD WHEN WE GET THERE. By the way - did you know that the Book of Mormon speaks against polygamy with harshness with extreme harshness as an abomination with one exception ... look it up yourself Jacob 2:22-35 (the exception is in verse 30)

My great great grandfather was one of the early pioneers and a polygamous. He had 3 wives. Each had their own home. First of all you had to be asked by the leadership to consider taking on more than one wife. The church leadership only asked those that they knew were very faithful and would not use it innapropriately. They only asked men who had proven themselves to be wholesome and virtuous and men of integrity. They also wanted those who were able to financially support more than one wife. The first wife had to approve. And - MOST IMPORTANTLY - the woman had to WANT to be the man's wife. They were not "ASSINGED" IF THEY SAID NO THAN NO WAS NO. So NO there was no force or rape and all of that terrible stuff you suggest. That is why you can see the difference between those that practiced it God's way and those that left the church and started practicing it willy nilly for their own lusts! There is a huge difference.

My great great grandmother had the choice to go for a monogomous marriage or marry my great great grandfather and become his 3rd wife and she chose him. The other man courting her was close to her same age too - my great great grandfather was older than her by some years. She like my great great grandfather's character more and chose to be married to him. It was all up to HER! Each wife had their own homes and he spent 1 week with each. They were extremely conservative and sex was not even meant to be discussed. As in the case of many from a more pure time. Sex was thought to be more about bringing in children into the world. It was a time when good people were not even supposed to talk about it. It was hardly the lust filled orgy type of situation you put forth. These people were extremely circumspect about living wholesome and pure lives. They were hard working, oppressed people who did all in there power to serve God and there fellowmen. They worked together for the benefit all the people and shared all of there goods with one another like in New Testament times (Compare Acts 2:44-45 & Acts 2:32-35 with D&C 42. I admit I am glad we are not asked to live it in the Church now (not as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.) I do know that the full reason for the law was only ever revealed to those who WERE asked to live it. So we just don't know. My great grandfather's mother was at first against the idea until she had it explained to her in it's fullness and then readily accepted it... what were those reasons. We don't know. It was only revealed to them. It was brought in by a prophet of God and taken away by a prophet in 1890. Anyone who entered polygamy without proper authority and any who have entered in since it was removed are not doing as the lord gave instruction! - 05/13/2008 - What you have wrong

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about! First of all why don't you stop taking info that is false and start to investigate the truth by actually going to church with a member or asking a missioary for the chuch for the true information. There is alot of information that you don't even know about that can support the decisions of Joseph Smith and the other topics you rudely taked about.

I think that whoever wrote this article about Joseph Smith is an idiot who needs to get his facts straight. whoever wrote this obviously has no idea about the Church of JESUS CHRIST of latter day saints and does not know the sacrifices Joseph gave to helping restore the true gospel of Jesus Christ.You are a very angry and jugmental person. Do you ever see the Mormon Bishop standing at the pulpit of the church and screaming to the members that all the other people in other churches are going to hell? I know for a fact that they will never do that, but I also know that many other Faiths critisize the mormon church more to their members than preaching the beleifs or teachings in the Bible to their members. I don't think it is Joseph Smith's fualt you are angry, but you simply won't go with a sincere heart and find the truth for yourself! - 04/04/2008 - anon

You are very angry and that makes your argument weak. Next time apply facts and keep your language,or lack there of, to yourself. I also do agree with much of what you say, to some point, but like I said you don't hold water. Clean it up, and fine tune it. - 02/07/2008 - KK

question smith was killed by groupes of young prophete of the mormon and joseph smith have only one wife but young have 26 wife the justice of california accuse young the polygamine and olso the fraud we have proube because my ancestral grand father tel my familly the true story about smith joseph and young story and my grand father was born at new-york and live at palmyra navoo. if you have some question i leave you my e-mail adresse or mobile:689 210958. - 01/07/2008 - francky

Dear Sir

Thank you 1000 times for these glimpses into the true nature of

Joseph Smith. I'm a Christian with a great burden for Mormons. I've been trying to figure out how to get into their close-knit "structure" to help them out of this nightmare of demonic doctrines and "work for your salvation" slavery that the church imposes on them.

God is NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS! He isn't going to "give them a break" on Judgment Day! They ALL need th REAL JESUS of the Bible, just like you and I do! Dumb mistake.....leaving crosses off their buildings! Their Jesus can't save them. ( he is the CREATOR of Lucifer...NOT HIS "SPIRIT BROTHER!") They have been TERRIBLY DECIEVED and are in REAL SPIRITUAL trouble when the destiny of their ETERNAL soul is eventually discovered!

IF you know what technique or approach really works, Please share it with me! I only wish Walter Martin were still with us!

Sincerely, Keith McCracken - 09/26/2007 - email:

comments: niggardly: reluctant to give or spend; stingy; miserly. The fact that it resembles the word "nigger" is a coincidence.

Other than that, good job. joseph smith was obviously a manipulator and NOT a man of god. Compare Jesus' Agape with Joseph Smith's lust and conveniently self serving "revelations." I mean, come on. You would really have to be an effing idiot to be a mormon. hidden tablets and all that shit? i mean, seriously. btw I love the mormon episode of South Park. watch it. hilarious.

mark - 09/24/2007

Idiot. State the truth not half baked, regurgitated falsehoods.

Blewish - 06/15/2007

If Joseph Smith were really trying to fraud people, don't you think he would have said he used the urim and thumim througout the entire process? He had nothing to gain from this story. I read some of your article, skimmed through the rest and found many, many false testimonials...who's the fraud now!

anon - 07/17/2007


Post your comments in this text box.

Name or handle:

E-Mail - leave blank to remain anonymous:


Home - Foyer - Site Map