10/28/2013 - by Kyle Pederson
Oak's behavior is a good example of why it's never a good idea to join up with a "church" that collects too much information on members and is generally intrusive.
Most people would call this a cult and realize such tactics are associated with totalitarian governments.
America can thank its lucky stars that Mormonism never found much acceptance among clear thinking people. Smart people avoided it then and now. - 10/30/2013 - by Leah
Oaks' complex can be summed up by the good Dr. Suess.
Oak's response to a subordinate communicating the pain caused by his abuse of power is strangely similar to the tyrannical turtle in "Yertle the Turtle".
"You have no right to talk to the world's highest turtle."
I think we should send this book in mass to Oaks with his response to Kyle Pederson tucked into the page where Yertle tells the poor turtle at he bottom he has no right to speak to him. We could add notes like: You are just a man, and it is just a church. - 10/30/2013 - Taddlywog
Oaks letter reads like a threatening letter from an attorney. Wait, it is a threatening letter from an attorney. - 10/30/2013 - releve
03/23/2013 - by over it~
I just recieved a letter (registered) from a Bishop that states:
I am writing on behalf of your former spouse, __________ . ______ was sealed to you on.________.H e has remarried and wishes to have his sealing to you cancelled. As part of the application to the First Presidency, I am required to request from you a letter detailing your feelings about the application for cancellation of sealing. I also need to know whether he is current in his financial obligations he has to you.
I have enclosed a stamped, self addressed envelope and a sheet of paper for your reply. You are welcome to type or hand write the reply. I am grateful for your attention to this matter, if you have any questions you can call me at _________.
Since it was HIM who walked out of the relationship after 30 plus years and said, well let's just split and then after a few years get remarried.
I do have a nice man in my life who takes good care of me.
Oh! Forgot to mention he married 4 months after our civil paperwork was signed to a woman who is real anti-Mormon (and won't even let the missionaries come over for dinner). I'm no Angel and do not go to church, after they buried my father who was a regestered sex offender in his temple clothing I said ENOUGH already.
I do believe This all will be sorted out probably not here on earth.
My dreams have been dashed, for sure. I'm just not going to respond. My statement will be not to engage.
02/03/2010 - by IDTortfeasor
Several months ago my ex-wife, whom I divorced in 1996, was finally seeking a temple sealing cancellation so she could be sealed to her current husband whom she married in 1998. I received the obligatory letter from her bishop, asking for my input as her former spouse. I replied generically that I only wished them the best, and had nothing to say.
At that point, I thought my dealings with this issue were over. If she got her cancellation and could marry again in the temple, that was her business, and I had no interest in whether it actually happened or not.
To my surprise, I received a letter this week from a member of the Quorum of the Seventy, advising me that the sealing cancellation went through. The letter stated:
Dear Brother [name]:
The First Presidency has asked me to inform you that as of the date of this letter they have canceled the sealing performed in the Boise Idaho Temple on [date], between you and your former spouse, [her name]. They carefully reviewed all communications received from the involved parties and from priesthood leaders before reaching this decision.
Children born in the covenant or sealed to parents are assured the right and privilege of eternal parentage based upon their individual faithfulness and agency. If such children remain worthy, these birthright blessings remain secure in the event that the sealing of their parents as husband and wife is canceled. For each of us, the realization of eternal blessings is conditioned upon personal worthiness and individual agency. Such blessings, including our eternal family relationships, will be determined by our wise and loving Father after we have completed our mortal probation.
The First Presidency also wishes me to express their concern for your well-being and their desire that the blessings of the Lord will be with you at all times.
Quorum of the Seventy
Cc: President [my local stake president]
I have a partner who is a former stake president, and I showed him the letter, and asked him if this was standard. He said this was the first letter like this he's ever seen. I asked him if the church had received so many inquiries about the status of children after a temple sealing cancelation, that they decided to do this form letter. He said that was his guess of why they would send this letter as well.
Some other thoughts I have on this:
1. The "cc" to my local stake president was a surprise. I moved into the house I'm at now living at after I resigned from the church. So, my records shouldn't have followed me. Also, I don't really want to be on the radar of the local leadership. The only reason I even knew that he's my local stake president (I originally assumed that the "cc" was to the president of the Quorum of the Seventy, not to my local stake president), was my partner who was a stake president told me that the person cc'ed was his replacement as stake president.
2. I really do hate being called "Brother".
3. My wife thinks the whole purpose of this letter is to try one more guilt trip about families being together forever, and to try and get me back to church. Maybe, but luckily, I quit feeling guilt about church issues 7 years ago.
4. I obviously call bullsh*t on the claim that the First Presidency reviewed the application for the sealing cancelation, and that the First Presidency wanted Mr. Johnson to express their concern for me.
5. The arguments you could make about the absurdity of the sealings/birthright blessings/etc are pretty easy. Their answer is always "the Lord will work it all out." For example, if for some F'ed up reason the church is actually true, and I stayed faithful, and my ex-wife stayed faithful, and the kids we had together stayed faithful, who would get custody of the kids in heaven? And, why would it matter, since our kids would have their own spouses and worlds to create? Or, what if you are the only faithful member in your entire family, who would your spiritual parents be? Are your parents in neighboring universes which you can visit? In each of our worlds that we create, do we get to pick our favorite child that we can kill on a cross? Or, can we think of our own torture implement to use? (Okay, I went off on a tangent there).
6. Mostly, I think I'll just have a beer to celebrate that an imaginary "sealing" to my crazy ex-wife has been canceled.
|Attached is correspondence I had earlier this year with L Tom Perry regarding TSCC's imposition of a one year waiting penalty for couples who marry civilly before they can be sealed in the temple - even though they are otherwise "temple worthy".
His reponse is demonstrates the attitude church leaders (and many church members) have regarding this issue. They are aware of the hurt their policy causes....and they don't care. The "church is true" and therefore cannot do anything hurtful or wrong. We non-Mormons who are upset by this exclusionary policy simply don't understand or are being selfish and narrow minded.
You'll notice that his reponse completely ignores my specific statement that I was not asking that non-Mormons be allowed in the temple, simply that they do away with the penalty period and encourage couples to plan an inclusive ceremony with everyone who loves them present - regardless of religious belief or affiliation.
Feel free to post them on your site, but I ask that my identifying information be deleted.
Submitted 12/30/2009 Click image to see letters.
I am writing here because I guess I really dont know where to go. I had been married in the temple for 10 years. Over those years things fell apart and we both did things that ruined out marriage. We got divorced and I later got remarried and got things back in order to go back to the temple. Now I am faced with the fact that my ex-husband wants to take his new wife to the temple and I guess I have to do something or talk with someone about it before. Why?
If we are divorced why does it matter? I was relieved to read the information about about the fact that as long as my kids live worthy no one can take away that sealing I have to them. Or is that only the sealing between them and their dad since he has the priesthood? - 02/14/2013 - Giles Clan
Hello. I was separated in early 2009. Divorced August 2011. She remarried July 28, 2012 after only knowing her new husband 114 days. I'm now supposed to write a response to her request for cancellation. Unlike you, I don't believe a sealing imaginary. I want my whole family with me in the eternities. I do believe that the First Presidency told that Seventy to write you. I wrote a letter, generically complaining during Christmas & I got an actual phone call from Elder Holland, a Mormon apostle. So I know that they both read & care. Do they get it right always? No. I don't think that even they consider themselves infallible. But they do care. - 02/03/2013 - Andrew
I got one very much like this (The Kenneth Johnson to IDTortfeasor) only it denied a request.
Actually, the letter was to the PH holder exH, who was to share it with me. This was during the SWK (Spencer W Kimball) years. The wording is almost exactly the same regarding the children, the worthiness, and the mortal probation. I was excommunicated several years before. Jointly, my exH and I requesting so he could be sealed to Wife #2.
When SWK refused to cancel, she dumped exH because of her aversion to polygamy. Being second wife was not her eternal goal. She also wrote a letter regarding the exH and her, and her wish to have his sealing canceled.
Mormon leadership ruins many relationships with the crazy cult aspect of eternal polygamy. If the children, even adult children are Mormon...they suffer with the knowledge they are in one messed up family. (Well, if you think of it according to the Mo-model of marriage).
I wonder if the letters were more common in the past, and perhaps are being reinstated as the norm??
Goofiness knows no limit! Silly cult. - 02/04/2010 - by wings
When my parents got a Catholic annulment I was 16. My dad was the one requesting it and I lived with him at the time. The local archdiocese gave my dad a "packet" with instructions to talk to all of us kids individually. He approached me very timidly and sputter some words and shoved the packet at me and asked that I read it.
I don't remember most of what was said, but I do remember this. "Although after the annulment it will be as though your parents were never married, you are not considered a bastard in the eyes of the church."
I laughed so hard that the word bastard was in a letter from the Catholic church. I'd never even come close to thinking anything about being a bastard. It is still funny to me to this day. - 02/04/2010 - bingoe4
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