"If the church isn't a cult, then we should stop behaving like one." - 05/12/2003 - active LDS scientist wishing to remain anonymous
Here is a suggestion to get people thinking. Imagine this on a billboard on the back of a bus.
YOU COULD NEVER BE DUPED INTO A CULT...COULD YOU?
(taken from Steven Hassan's book "Combatting Cult Mind Control")
Do you belong to an organisation that .
- has lots of meetings?
- keeps you so busy you don't have time to think?
- has an infallible leader?
- expects purity?
- has rigid principles?
- expects confessions?
- speaks a cliché-ridden language?
- is at odds with the world?
- has simple answers to most of life's questions?
- makes you feel secure?
- makes you feel more special than non-members?
- frowns on expressions of doubts?
- claims absolute truth?
- expects significant financial contributions?
- is reluctant to allow you to leave?
- controls information about its own history?
- always says you are free to choose?
.....BEEN IN AN ORGANISATION LIKE THIS LATELY? - 09/06/1999 - Gavin
Had a conversation with my sister today that shows even further the dictatorship of this organization.
My sisters ward in the UK is what you would call a 'strong' ward of 100 people that attend. A neighbouring ward that is mainly made up of old people and smaller, about four children in primary, don't socialize together etc will now be recieveing a quarter of my sisters ward in membership. The stake president must have changed the ward boundaries to allow a number of families with children, totalling around 25 individuals, to be a part of the other smaller ward - obviously to boost it.
I said they don't have to go - and she said 'NO! The HAVE to!'. I asked about an old lady and her disabled son - what happens to them - they helped build the chapel they are a part of, she didn't know if they were MADE to change wards.
Being told one day that you have to attend a meeting with the Bishop of your new ward - that your records have been transfered and thats's where you go now on Sundays - reminds me of the Jewish Quarters in some ways!
"To Monson I said, 'the Pope? Now come on!
Doesn't he lead the whore of old Babylon?'
But Monson just smiled and said, "things are great,
since we pitched in together to pass that Prop 8."
"Now Monson was smiling and Benedict beaming,
'See how it works? Our plan of mainstreaming,
We're working together, things moving quite fast,
Since we both have a lot to cover up in our past.
"'We're both quite adept at twisting our history,
And Mormons rely more and more upon 'mystery'
His wafer's a flat version of our wonderbread,
And both of us threaten you after you're dead.
"'You see we're alike we've got guilt and confession,
And we try to stamp out many forms of expression,
So now all us Mormons can proudly exult!
We're just like the Catholics, we're not a cult!"
- you buy a bag of coffee and are afraid you get caught
- you have to burn the markings of your underwear before disposing them
- certain parents can't attend the weddings of their own children
- people look at you like you're the Antichrist when you show a shoulder
- you have to pay tons of money no matter how broke or sick you are
- only you and your tiny little group goes to the highest heaven and the other 99.98% don't
- you have to work for free 10-20 hours a week
- everybody's broke but 'headquarters' builds a 2 billion Dollar mall
- they don't release financial information
- no credible scientist outside your group believes in huge Nephite, Lamanite or Etherite civilizations where 2 million died in battles
- you don't attend church for only a few weeks and 'concerned' people visit you unannounced.
- you can end up in church court because you shared non approved literature / websites with your fellow members
- you have to answer intimate questions about your sex life
Isn't that proof enough ?
Mormonism Is a dangerous, family-splitting religion spreading throughout the world. The purpose of this website is to give you the scientific and factual information you need to evaluate this religion. With this information you will save yourself many years of heartbreak and deception or help a loved one or friend get loose of the dangerous grip that The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints has on innocent people through fear and intimidation.
Cult members of the Mormon/Latter-Day Saints religion are manipulated through fear and guilt.
This Mormon/Latter-Day Saints cult produces fear in their members because if they don?t practice church doctrine faithfully, they believe they will fail to reach the highest levels of heaven and fear that if they don?t wear their garments, they will not be protected by God.
Mormon church cult proselytizing functions at three levels:
1) marketing strategy,
2) missionary lessons, and
3) use of friendshipping families.
Seventy-five million dollars was earmarked by Bonneville International, the Mormon church's powerful communications branch, for satellite dishes in Canada and Mexico. The Mormon Church set a similar goal for South America, Europe, Asia, and the Philippines. The Mormon church's satellite is the largest video network in the world, having the ability to merge into any cable system in North America....it spends approximately $550 million a year.
In addition, the LDS cult has been cosmitized, that is a sacred canopy has been developed. The following explains what cults like the Mormon church must do to establish this sacred canopy:
1. claim contact with heaven or the cosmos
2. claim God has chosen a leader as His divinely chosen representative
3. give royal or divine status to the leader(s)
4. insist their society mirrors the divine structure of heaven
5. build temples to practice sacred ordinances
6. produce 'sacred' literature
Cult Characteristics of the Mormon Church:
1. Teaching that the doctrine of the Mormon Church is reality, the doctrine is to be accepted, not understood.
2. Reality is black and white, good and evil, spiritual world versus physical word. (As an example: "the Mormon Church cult is the only true church on the face of the earth".)
3. Mormon Church members are taught to feel part of an elite group: following and accepting church doctrine insures members eternal life and a delightful life in heaven.
4. Mormon Church members are manipulated through fear and guilt, fear that if they don?t practice church doctrine faithfully that they will fail to reach the highest levels of heaven, fear that if they don?t wear their garments, that they will not be protected by God.
5. Mormon Church members are taught that any problems that they may have are due to their own inadequacies. If they are having marital, financial or other difficult problems, it is because they are not following Church doctrine, or are not praying enough. Guilt, fear and shame are present in the minds of Mormons if they are not loyal and fail to follow the church doctrine.
6. Unlike non-cult organizations, Mormon Church members find it difficult to leave when they find out that church teachings are false or otherwise become disenchanted with the church. They believe that terrible things will happen to them and their family if they leave. This becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because those who do leave actually often do lose their family, friends and other social contacts within the Mormon community.
"We are very aware of the history of Mormons as a group that was chastised in America," says Maher Hathout, a senior advisor to the Muslim Public Affairs Council in Los Angeles. "They can be a good model for any group that feels alienated."
Perhaps that explains an open-mosque day held last fall at the Islamic Center of Irvine where most of the guests were Mormons.
"A Mormon living in an Islamic society would be very comfortable," said Steve Young, a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints attending the event.
The sentiment is echoed by Muslims. "When I go to a Mormon church I feel at ease," said Haitham Bundakji, former chairman of the Islamic Society of Orange County. "When I heard the president [of LDS] speak a few years ago, if I'd closed my eyes I'd have thought he was an imam."
Mormons venerate Jesus as interpreted by founder Joseph Smith while Muslims view Muhammad as God's prophet. Based on shared values and a sense of isolation from mainstream America, the connection was intensified by 9/11. It is especially evident in Southern California, having both large Mormons and Muslim populations.
The Mormon church has become the biggest contributor to Buena Park-based Islamic Relief, touted by its administrators as the West's largest Muslim-based charity. Relief officials say the church has donated $20 million in goods and services since the 2004 tsunami, equal to about 20% of the charity's annual budget.
Brigham Young University in Utah, the Mormon's church's major institution of higher learning, features what is thought to be one of the world's best programs for translating classic Islamic works from Arabic to English. Though created primarily for academic purposes, the results have impressed Muslims flattered by the close attention.
"It shows they have a keen interest in the Muslim world," said Levent Akbarut, a member of the Islamic Congregation of La Caada-Flintridge.
Arnold H. Green, a history professor at BYU, has traced how early Mormons in the 19th century were hounded by accusations that church founder Smith was the American Muhammad. The first Mormons angrily denied any connection to the Muslim prophet but gradually accepted some comparisons, particularly that both religions were founded by post-Christian prophets with strong sectarian views. "As the church grew into a global faith," Green wrote in a 2001 essay, "its posture toward Islam became more positive" until, today, "the two faiths have become associated in several ways, including Mormonism's being called the Islam of America."
Both religions strongly emphasize family. They tend toward patriarchy, believing in feminine modesty, chastity and virtue. And although Islam discourages dancing involving both sexes, Mormons report that church-sponsored "modesty proms" commonly draw Islamic youths.
Both faiths adhere to religion-based health codes, including prohibitions against alcohol, but Mormons and Muslims share something more: membership in quickly growing minority religions that many other Americans have oftentimes viewed with suspicion and scorn.
"We both come from traditions where there has been persecution in the past and continues to be prejudice," said Steve Gilliland, LDS director of Muslim relations for Southern California. "That helps us Mormons identify with Muslims."
The relationship between the two religions has sometimes drawn ire.
Scattered throughout the Internet are numerous tracts comparing the two religions in less-than-complimentary terms. "Modern Mohammedanism has its Mecca in Salt Lake," reads one. "Clearly the Koran was Joseph Smith's model, so closely followed as to exclude even the poor pretension of originality in his foul 'revelations.' "
In Southern California, the relationship between the two religions became closer after the Los Angeles riots in 1992, when the Mormon church, hoping to promote diversity, invited Muslims to attend the opening of its new temple in San Diego.
The Mormon church later feted prominent Muslims in Salt Lake City.
"We were treated as dignitaries," said Shabbir Mansuri, founding director of the Muslim-based Institute on Religion and Civic Values in Fountain Valley, which encourages tolerance through research and education. "I met with the president of LDS and the governor of Utah. We were sitting in the front row of the Tabernacle. Mormons would give their right arms to be there."
The relationship deepened on Sept. 11, 2001. The first call Mansuri received that day came from Elder Oaks. "He was concerned and wanted to send us a very clear message that we were in their prayers," Mansuri recalls.
Oaks said, "I consider Shabbir Mansuri a brother," he said. "He's a good man who's doing good work. We try to be friendly to all people, and in the days after 9/11, lots of Muslims felt rejected."
In the months that followed, Mormons nationwide opened their churches to Islamic worshipers fearful of reprisals in their mosques. When Muslims needed a cannery to process the Bosnia-bound beef slaughtered for the annual Eid al-Adha observance, the Mormons offered theirs in Utah.
Following the tsunami that devastated many Islamic communities, the Mormon church began working closely with Islamic Relief. Though LDS had helped Muslims before - providing 195 tons of powdered milk, hygiene kits, medical supplies and other provisions - it had never previously worked with this major Islamic agency, or on such a scale.
Although the Mormon church continues to aid non-Muslim causes, only two of the six major disaster assistance efforts listed on its website since 2004 - Hurricane Katrina and Africa measles vaccination campaigns - did not primarily affect Islamic nations.
Locally, LDS helped the Islamic Society of Orange County's Al-Rahman Mosque in Garden Grove develop its library with a $15,000 donation. "Their beliefs are similar to ours," Robert Bremmer, a Mormon bishop, said at that facility's open-mosque day in 2005. "They have modest dress, and so do we. They believe in all the [Old Testament] prophets, as do we."
During Al-Rahman's most recent open house in August, attended by many Mormon elders and dignitaries, a tribute was paid to a deceased LDS official supportive of the mosque.
10. If the prophet told you to move to Independence, MO—would you?
9. If polygamy was reinstituted—would you participate?
8. If your bishop advised you to no longer speak with an inactive relative—would you follow his counsel?
7. If tithing were raised to 15%--would you pay it?
6. If the prophet asked you to sign over all your assets to the church—would you?
5. If the prophet asked the members to send their first-born sons to SLC for protection and training in the Gospel from the age of 8 until they are 18—would you?
4. If you had a dream in which god commanded you to sacrifice your son to him—would you?
3. If the prophet commanded you to kill an apostate relative—would you?
2. If, at your next temple visit while in the Celestial room, sacramental grape juice is passed around by the matrons and everyone is commanded to drink—would you?
1. If the prophet came to you and asked you to give him your wife to be his spiritual wife—would you?
Mitt Romney's run for president has put his Mormon faith in the spotlight, but the religion remains a mystery to most.
FOXNews.com compiled a list of 21 questions representing some widely held beliefs and misconceptions about Mormonism and posed them to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Church objected to answering some of the questions on the grounds that they misrepresent the basic tenets of the Mormon religion.
To check out the questions and how the Church responded go to this link:
But here are the questions and how the Church responds de facto, :
Q: Why do some call the Church a cult?
A: In our case it is because we tend to be highly clannish and insular such that it makes others nervous. Especially, those that believe in openness, transparency, and inclusiveness. Perhaps it is because we insist on speaking the language the only true God has given us, i.e., that is that all others will not be received by our Heavenly Father unless they submit to Mormon baptism and law.
If you feel uncomfortable with, you know, law and order or insist on God not being withholding but rather an all-loving generous being, well then you may begin to feel excluded. Or if you are some kind of "new-agey" person who believes in the Oneness of all, you may feel excluded by our God making you the Other if you don't quite fit into our clean, pure and homogeneous society. We don't coddle to any kind of diversity, it is just not the Lord's way.
Q: Does the Mormon Church believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God?
A: Mormons believe Jesus Christ is literally the Son of God, the Savior and Redeemer, who died for the sins of humankind and rose from the dead on the third day with an immortal body. God, the Father, also has an immortal body. And don't ask about the Mother.
We, as children of the Heavenly Father and one of his wives, have fallen so far that we have offended our Mother (or maybe all of them) and she won't have anything to do with us as taught by a number of our leaders. But our Father is much more sturdy, he being a man, and will take us back but only if one of us dies brutally and suffers a lot to appease him.
These are the original Family Values we speak of when we say Families are Eternal. A remote withholding Father, a cowering, invisible Mother and a loving plan that allows us back if we confess that we are filthy, unworthy kids.
I know that if you found such a family here on this fallen earth, you would call Child Protective Services, but it is the Eternal Plan that our kind Father has given us. And we trust it and enthusiastically disseminate it to all who will listen.
Q: Does the Church believe in the divinity of Jesus?
A: Mormons believe Jesus Christ is literally the Son of God, the Savior and Redeemer. We follow his teachings in every way particularly those where he tenderly taught regarding the destruction of the environment, the waging of war, multiple wives subject to the Priesthood, the keeping of "darkies" (one of our prophets called them that.) in their place, the upholding of the racial system established by the Father himself (until he changed his mind in 1978.) the brutal huntin' of animals for our pleasure, the accumulation of wealth, the persecution of immigrants, those "strangers in a strange land," the brutalization of homosexuals, (our beloved prophets call them an abomination unto the Lord.) and, of course, the damnation or cursing of innocent children for the sins of their Fathers. (We call these lovely people, our beloved Lamanites.)
OOOPS! He didn't teach any of that? Of course, he did, I can quote you chapter and verse from our holy Scriptures and the words of our latter-day prophets. Jesus talks through them.
Q: Does the Church believe that God is a physical being?
A: Yes, but his body is of refined elements and he is not subject to the filthy needs of the earthly body. He can trust his body. We can't ours. Our body may be made in his image but it's the Devil's playground. We do not touch our bodies inappropriately nor call certain parts directly by their name. We prefer the term, "that part" or "little engine or factory", or something like that.
Our prophets speaking for the Lord himself tell us we are made in God's image but--not yet. So we can't trust this gift He has given us, indeed, this very gift may be the biggest obstacle to every seeing him again. So we don't touch ourselves there too much, well, anyway not before. Well, excuse me, I have to rearrange a few things. Ahh..there! That's it, I don't want to talk about sacred and scary things anymore.
Q: If so, does the Church believe that God lives on a planet named Kolob?
A: "Kolob" is a term found in ancient records translated by Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith did not provide a full description or explanation of Kolob nor did he dwell too much on how he got this information. If he said it, that's good enough for us. All we know is it's very close to the sun (don't ask) and God lives there. When the prophet has spoken, the argument has ended as our beloved apostle Packer likes to remind us.
Q: Where is the planet Kolob? What significance does the planet have to Mormons?
A: Why do you insist on bringing this up again? "Kolob" is a term found in ancient records translated by Joseph Smith. Ancient records that have never been found any where unless you're talking about the Egyptian papyrus and we don't talk too much about that these days. Next? No, I've never heard of Spaulding. Next?
Q: Does the Mormon Church believe that God and Mary had physical sex to conceive Jesus?
A: The Church does not claim to know how Jesus was conceived but believes the Bible and Book of Mormon references to Jesus being born of the Virgin Mary. That's our story and we're sticking by it though if you insist, some of our prophets have told us that Jesus was conceived in exactly the same manner that we were conceived, i.e., in the dark, under the covers, and with our garments on! Oh dear, I hope I haven't said too much.
Q: Does the Mormon Church believe Jesus appeared in North America after his crucifixion and resurrection?
A: The appearance of Jesus in the Western Hemisphere shortly after his resurrection is described in the Book of Mormon. Mormons believe that when Christ told his disciples in the Bible He had other "sheep" who should receive his message he was referring to those people in the Western Hemisphere. These "sheep" currently are all Native Americans, Polynesians, all Central and South Americans, and only God knows who else who has fallen from grace.
A kind Father in Heaven gave them a dark skin and made them loathsome so that the rest of us would not even think of marrying them and so that they would know he was not pleased with their behavior. But, we have a kind Father. He curses; and he blesses. These "other sheep" can become "white and delightsome" like we northern Europeans if they are patient and faithful.
We have lovely pictures of what "righteous" people look like right there in our Holy Scripture, the Book of Mormon. And, noooo, we don't believe in all this DNA stuff. Our own living prophet Hinckley has clearly told us recently that there is no such proof. And, no, I don't believe, that he is unable to read dense, scholarly scientific papers. He would if he needed to. He doesn't, so he doesn't. He's the prophet.
Please do not feel we are unkind to our Lamanite "sheep" brothers. Why up until recently we had a kindly Indian Placement Program wherein we removed these sweet children from their dark and loathsome homes and placed them in good white homes where they could learn to be good Americans and true Mormons.
Why some of them still make delicious green Jell-o salads and thank their Father in Heaven every day for giving them a chance to become white and delightsome. No, I don't believe we have any record of any of them actually losing their melanin and becoming more righteous and Nordic. But, we have given them every opportunity to become more like us. We believe it's a matter of time if they only try harder.
Q: Does the Mormon Church believe its followers can become "gods and goddesses" after death?
A: Yep, we teach "be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect." And, no, this doesn't make us more neurotic. There is no correlation between this teaching and the fact that Utah leads the nation in depression and suicide. And, I'm not sure I've heard anything about this Prozac thing. Is it close to Kolob?
Q: Does the Mormon Church believe that women can only gain access to heaven with a special pass or codewords?
A: No. They just need a righteous man to choose them. No special passes or codewords! They cannot enter the highest level of our Celestial Kingdom unless they hitch a righteous ride with a good Priesthood bearer. We believe that's how our Mother in Heaven did it and if it's good enough for her it's good enough for our women folk.
Q: Does the Mormon Church believe that women must serve men on both Earth and in heaven?
A: Absolutely not. Mormons believe that women and men are complete equals before God and in relation to the blessings available in the Church. Equals except that women will never have the priesthood here or in eternity. That's why they need to be sealed to a righteous man. No, no, they can't be sealed to more than one man to insure their entrance. Just one. Men can marry many women. Women; just one man. That's just how equality works among Gods.
Q: Is there such a thing as Mormon "underwear"? If so, are all Mormons required to wear it? What does it symbolize?
A: Like members of many religious faiths, Latter-day Saints wear religious clothing. Some call them sacred vestments, we call them underwear. And that's all I can say now. Really that's all I can say with out fear of decapitation or disembowelment by one the only true followers of the gentle Jesus.
Q: Does the Mormon Church believe in the existence of another physical planet or planets, where Mormons will "rule" after their death and ascension?
A: No. Just Kolob up by the sun. Nice, toasty, heavenly.
Q: What specifically does the Mormon Church say about African-Americans and Native Americans?
A: Mormons believe that all mankind are sons and daughters of God and should be loved and respected as such unless they were black and joined our only true and unchanging Church before 1978. Then we were free to call them "darkies" (Joseph Fielding Smith) and assure them as our prophet Brigham Young taught that slavery was ordained of a loving God himself.
All I know is ours is a loving God and he knows what he's doing. As far as Native Americans are concerned (we prefer to call them Lamanites) we think they're special, that's why Father in Heaven made them dark and loathsome because he loves them. Why we think they are so very special that in all the history of our Church only one has ever been made a General Authority.
I happen to believe that there would be more if they had only applied themselves more when we had the Indian Placement Program but some of them kept whining about wanting to go back to their mothers and their dark and loathsome ways. Believe, you me, whining will not get you to the Celestial Kingdom! God loves winners! Oh, we've tried, believe me our prophets have tried.
Q: What are or were the "Golden Plates"?
A: The Book of Mormon was translated by Joseph Smith from records made on plates of gold, similar to metal plates that have been found in other ancient cultures. These aren't around anymore because they are so special that our Father didn't trust us with them anymore so he took them away. But our prophet wouldn't lie. If he said they existed? that's good enough for us.
Q: Are consumption of alcohol and tobacco prohibited or simply discouraged?
A: It is against the teachings of the Church to use alcohol and tobacco or to drink tea and coffee. It is also against the teachings of our Church to overeat. And, yes, I heard that unkind remark your cameraman made about the, well ?ahh, you know, the large behinds of some our Saints. We are not a society of lard bottoms! We believe in eating healthy, just none of that alternative, New Age food like fruits and vegetables. We eat these only in Jell-o salads and when they are gray and nearly unrecognizable down in our basement 2-year supply. We are a peculiar people.
Q: Does the Church also ban the consumption of "hot drinks"? And does that apply specifically to caffeinated drinks?
A: It is against the teachings of the Church to use alcohol and tobacco or to drink tea and coffee. But not Prozac or Xanax. These are nearly sacramental to us as they help us be a good example of joy and perfection, an Ensign to the nations of the world, as it were. No, I am not sure I know what the term Collective Narcissism means. Next?
Q: Why do Mormons go from door to door?
A: Christ admonished his disciples to take the gospel to the world. We believe that all other Churches are THE GREAT AND ABOMINABLE CHURCH and their members need to be straightened out so God can accept them back. The Church follows that admonition and sends missionaries throughout the world.
I know it's very confusing to some to hear Mitt Romney assure the world that we are one of them. We all know we are not, but we believe that when you are the only true church and the salvation of this country depends on us and upon our Priesthood, why, then all bets are off.
You can sort of lie for the greater good as our beloved apostle Packer reminds us. Some truths just don't serve the Kingdom. So we can distort, withhold, and just plain not reveal. No, no, of course, that is not what I am doing now.
Q: What do the Mormons believe about the family?
A: Mormons believe that the family is the foundation for this life and the life to come. We believe that our Father in Heaven sets the example for this type of eternal and sacred family life. He knows He is the man, she knows her place as a woman (Invisible).
Your children cross you, you throw them out of the house and don't let them back in until they have humbled to your ways and somebody dies an awful death to appease you. You eke it out as they are worthy. They need to know who the priesthood bearer is here.
Our Father in Heaven expects us to be strong leaders. And when they do come home you create some nice hierarchies so it's very clear who is in and who is still out. We call them the degrees of glory.
What do we do up there in those families? Why just love each other as our Father in Heaven loves us. Unless, you are still not worthy and then you can me a menstruating angel. (Aside to assistant) Do I have this last one right?
Q: Can someone who may never marry in life have eternal marriage?
A: God will not withhold blessings from any of his children who may not have the opportunity to marry in this life. Well, except gays and our beloved prophets have been clear that they are abomination unto the Lord. One of our Seventies, our beloved Hartmann Rector has taught that Satan himself is a homosexual.
So, no, any man who has the opportunity to be a real man like our Father in Heaven and still insists that he wants to be like that, well, I don't know. Here again we love our homosexuals and have always been at the forefront of helping them with their unnatural desires so they can become "straight and delightsome," as it were.
Our own BYU, the Lord's University, pioneered electro-therapy and other loving techniques to help these people come closer to the Lord. But no, they insist they were born that way?
Why, I can point to a pamphlet upon pamphlet inspired by the Lord himself that our Church has produced to help these people almost to no avail. Free agency being what it is, some of them not only don't take advantage of this loving help, some even go and kill themselves.
Well we know from sacred scripture that "wickedness never was happiness." That's how I explain that.
List Joseph's Myth's priorities for creating the Doctrine and Covenants and founding the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in descending order of importance to Joseph:
A. Money. Sex. Power.
B. Sex. Power. Money.
C. Power. Money. Sex.
D. Money. Power. Sex.
E. Sex. Money. Power.
F. Power. Sex. Money.
G. All of the above.
I have been reading and reading and reading lately about Mormons. I don't know what to say about it all except I GOT DUPED! I have been dating this guy for about 8 months now, he has not been an active member of his church (LDS) for like 4-5 years. I recently started going a couple of months ago, I also started taking missionary discussions.
I was so entwined in all of this charade that I confessed I wanted to be baptized to his parents. Everyone got excited. I was trying to figure out a way to tell my parents. (Mind you, I'm 25 years old, and live 4 states away from parents) I did what any good "soon-to-be" member would do, I met with the Missionarys, asked them "How do I tell my mom?" "How will I explain all of this?"
For the first time in about the 9 discussions we had, they had no answer for me! So as I drove home that day, I thought, what am I doing? I felt like I was betraying my family, like what I was taught to believe the whole time I was growing up was a lie and not true! I remember telling my boyfriend, "I like what I believe and I believe it, that's all that matters to me."
For anyone reading this now, we are still together, but only because he doesn't attend church, he says he does believe what he grew up in, but he never got as far into the temple with all the endowments stuff as I have read, I know him and the first sign of someone touching his body while he's only covered with a sheet (much less a stranger) he's going to bolt from that temple I would put everything I own on that Bet! Hell, I would!
I'm so glad I read that before getting to far into this. Now I feel guilty for ever wanting to leave my family and not allowing them to be able to see a marriage one day, What kind of small minded god would do that to a family. A marriage is about two families coming together, not separating them and parading them around like out-casts made to sit outside the temple! How cruel is that!
Every person on the bulletins I haved been reading is saying "Sacred not secret." Well, you know what, I have heard that so many times in the past couple of months it only re-confirms for me what you are saying is true. "Sacred not secret" my butt!
If it was truly not secret then more people would know about it and it would be okay to talk about! I heard one woman say "Never do anything in secret because if it's done in secret then you shouldn't be doing it anyway." I have on thing to say about that! Take your own damn advice!
This is my story and I'm proud to believe that there is God and that He isn't as closed minded as these people say He is. He has a sense of humor and no matter what type of life you lead, if you are a good person, do right and honestly by your family, and don't intentionally hurt anyone, then I believe you will go to heaven!
Only in Mormonism can a practicing Jew be considered a Gentile! - 08/21/2005 - Sarah Goldburg
You say “I know Joseph Smith Jr. was a prophet of God” as testimony to the truthfulness of Mormonism. Take the following quiz to find out how much you really know about him.
Joseph Smith Jr.
1. How many women did Joseph Smith marry while he was alive besides Emma? A: thirty-two.
2. How many of these women were older than him? A: five
3. How many of these women were in his peer group of 30-40 years of age? A: eight
4. How many of these women were 21-29 years of age when he married them? A: nine
5. How many were less than 20 years of age when he married them? A: eleven
6. How many were already married to other men when he married them? A: five
7. How many of these women filed affidavits stating their marriage to Joseph Smith included sexual intercourse? A: thirteen
8. How old was the youngest girl that he married? A: fourteen
9. What was her name? A: Helen Mar Kimball
10. Her birthday? A: August 28th, 1828
11. The date of her marriage to him? A: May 1843
12. His age on that date? A: thirty-eight
13. Would you let your fourteen year old daughter marry a thirty-eight year old man?
14. What kind of thirty-eight year old man would want to marry a 14 year old girl?
15. Number of references to his wives other than Emma on the JosephSmith.net website sponsored by the LDS Church? A: zero
16. Why zero?
Kirtland Temple legal proceedings
I've always wondered why Mormon leaders use "The Outer Darkness" as a method of control and fear over their followers. A Mormon Bishop once said that only truly evil people like Hitler and Stalin and Mass Murders go there. Everyone else goes to one of the other 3 levels of heaven. If even non-Mormons can make it to one of the other levels of heaven, and then have someone on earth be baptised in that dead persons name so they can reach a higher level of heaven, why fear the darkness?
I'm not afraid of the dark
The church claims that only its members can stay with their families "for time and all eternity".
It recently occurred to me (I'm sure someone else has thought of this, so my apologies if it seems redundant) that this doctrine may be another subtle tether by which the church keeps believers from straying. I used to think that it was just a minor "selling point" of mormonism, and not much more. But now I'm wondering if it isn't a lot more deeply psychological than I'd originally imagined.
I've read that one of Disney's fail-safe ways of making movies that relate to children is through the use of separation anxiety. Just think of movies like Dumbo or Finding Nemo. The child is separated from it's parent, and the rest of the movie is about how the two are reconciled. Anyone who can remember what it was like to become lost from their parents in a large department store, at the park or whatever, can relate to how terrifying that is to a child.
And here we have the LDS church saying that if you belong to some other church, or no church at all, you will be separated after death, not only from your parents, but all of your family, for eternity. But join with them and you can be assured of eternal familial bliss! (I'm assuming here that we're talking about people who LIKE their families ;-)
Seen from that perspective, the doctrine of "eternal families" is really insidious when you think about it. The more I think about things like this, the more it seems to me that mormonism really IS a cult.
Just want to respond to starr's comments, on 09/10/2003. My kindred spirit bell went off; we seem to have had almost exactly the same kind of experience with the church, at least as far as everything written by starr on this page. I just want to say how sorry I am it all happened. I do feel vindicated though. For once I see everyone telling me I'm the only person the church ever didn't help (and even that was just my imagination) wasn't entirely just my imagination.
I think it's discouraging, too, hearing some of the dogmatic/critical remarks people make about various parts of this site. It shows me that the church has taught them to have so tightly wound a sense of humor that it brooks no laughter except what the proper priesthood authorities approve of as such. It's almost like the prophet has to laugh first, before any of us can laugh.
Can't they at least assume that God is a big enough person to tolerate a laugh? especially when the subject matter normally otherwise brings so much pain to those of us that were apparently "born wrong" because we found we couldn't just naturally enjoy all of the church's assurances as an adequate reward in exchange for our lives.
I'm sorry, but if there is a God -- a nonsatanic God, that is -- then there's no way such a being could be like that, or approve of the whole crushing peer-pressure machine that the church becomes.
The question as to whether or not the Mormon Church is a cult or not does not lie in all of its brainwashing activities. A cult is defined as ANY religion that does not focus on the blood of Jesus Christ through faith for the remission of sins. The book of Galatians teaches clearly that anyone who teaches ay other gospel is accursed. That gospel is clearly defined in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 - The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ according to the scriptures.
Mromons are not alone -- any church, organization, or religion that teaches salvation through anything other than the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ is a cult.
I just don't know how so many people can be part of something that is based on something so ridiculous. I mean if GOD came to Joseph Smith saying that the churches were corrupt, then why didn't he tell him to try to fix the churches instead of just making a new one. If GOD would have truly came to Joseph then he would have had a plan for the masses and not just the select few that believed in Joseph's proposterous story. - 03/23/2004 - anon
Signs of a Cult??
Control, when I was involved in Mormonism two things that shocked me. One was a member on welfare who was being forced to give beyond what she could afford. That shocked me.
Secondly hiding teachings and beliefs. I was on the verge of getting baptized and in a Gospel Doctrine class for the first time in over a year and half they were talking about Godhood. The missionaries never brought that up with me. They made the LDS appear to be like any non-denominational church.
Okay...aside from that I know that God is SPEAKING to me!!!!! YES HE IS!!???!!! HE IS COMMANDING ME TO TAKE MY PROZAC!!!!!!! - 02/01/2004 - from DAVE
Mormon's are the friendliest people I know. But it is really weird, none of them will say hi to me when I see them at the liquor store. - 01/20/2004 - anon
I thought I was a prophet.... that is until the pills took effect. - 10/25/2003 - anon
You know you're in a cult if:
There is no official doctrine.
Prophecies contradict each other.
Members are discouraged from researching complicated or negative Mormon history.
Your services are constantly telling you to follow the prophet.
Your scriptural account of the early Americas has never been proven, not one city or settlement has ever been found!
There are so many more its rediculous! I do feel bad for these people because a lot of this is not their fault. -10/20/2003 - anon
All I know is that the Mormon Church owes me a substantial amount of monetary compensation for the amount of therapy that I've had to undergo as a result of the fundamentalist, narrow-minded, prejudiced and ignorant doctrines that dictate their various brainwashing programs. I also propose that they be forced to compensate me for my pain and suffering for the years that I spent worrying that I would be ejected into the "outer darkness" because one of their warped little missionaries tried to make out with me WHEN I WAS 12.
In addition, I would move to have this church pay PUNITIVE damages to ME, and every other poor kid out there who has fallen victim to their tyrannical and taliban-esque teachings, in order to try and deter these despotic maniacs from completely demolishing the psyches of any more innocent and immpressionable young people.
Whether what these people believe is true or not is irrelevent to me. I really could care less if Joseph Smith were a black homosexual jew who believed in aliens and the real ultimate power of ninjas. What IS completely relevant is how these sociopathic mormons run around and utilize their beliefs in order to gain control over people and establish dominance via guilt and manipulation of reality. These people are malicious opportunists who capitalize on the vulnerability of young minds. They effectively execute nearly every standard element of brainwashing and much of their behavior parallels that of Captors trying to break the will of P.O.W.s.
For anyone out there who has managed to break free from the chains of self-imposed albeit misdirected guilt and torment imposed upon you by the inhumane practices of the Mormon Church, run far and run fast. For those of you who are still victims of those soul-draining parasitic megalomaniacs, just know that there truly is a better life! out there; one that involves autonomy, basic tenents of human rights and equality to all persons, and an existance free from the unreasonable amount of subconscious confusion generated by the self-defeating contradictions that the Mormon Church has drilled into your mind.
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ or Latter-day Saints, and have been a member all of my life. I accidentally stumbled upon this site and began reading some of these comments out of curiosity. Rather than being incited to anger, I find myslef feeling deeply hurt. To imagine that so many people would go to so much trouble simply to mock people of my faith is horrifying.
In addition to your unkind intentions, I find your facts to be misleading. I have been taught from nearly my infancy to question religion - to even question the prophet and the scriptures. How else can my testimony truly be mine? Were I to surrender my "own common sense," as this site suggests is required of members, I would have built my beliefs upon a foudnation of sand!
I have seen miracles, big and small. I have felt the Spirit of God. I have witnessed the great work the Gospel does. I have seen it break chains of familial abuse and can testify of the power found in each principle that the church leaders exact from the members under God's guidance. I have never been taught that the prophet is perfect, and while I have great love and appreciation for the prophet Joseph Smith, have never considered worshipping him. Jesus Christ is my savior and redeemer - none other than he and my heavenly father receive my full devotion.
I pray that those who have posted on this site so far can release thair anger and no longer feel compelled to attack sometihng they either have never understood or no longer understand. To any with no knowledge of the LDS faith, please do not believe the angry misrepresentations posted here. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is Jesus' church - not that of Satan, the modern prophet, or Joseph Smith.
thank you, ~Emily
I have been inactive for 15 years, you would think by now i would be able to have my own beliefs. I never was bothered when i left the church not by any mormon but still after all this time i can't stop thinking that it is the true church and every day i'm away i'm sinning. Do you think i'm still brain washed or do i really still have faith hmm something i struggle with every day of my life.I wasn't born into the church i decided at 18 that it was right to get baptised (i really did believe)but i didn't make it more than a year before i wanted what my non mormon friends had.Even after reading all this negativity i still can't help thinking i would like to contact my church again even after all these years.I feel for the ones who are now non mormons you must feel very deeply on why you left.You are still good people whether you are mormons or x mormons i believe. - 02/28/2004 - from firstname.lastname@example.org
What hurt me the most was when one of my "best" friends told me, that since I had "questions" about the church..she would have to end "communication" with me. What was she afraid of? Sick and wrong.. I know that the Mormons are cultish-why else would they have so many programs that isolate each member of the family into groups of religious fanantics? ..So they can suck you in and suck you dry.. - 10/05/2003 - anon
Right on it's scary how easly I bought into the lies as I was growing up, but now looking at some of these statments from out side the mormon church I can't belive that more members aren't able to see them for what the are. They realy can't stand the light of day. - 06/04/2003 - from John the Apostate
Services are canceled because the rattlesnake got loose.
Tour leader's prophecies must be spell checked first.
Special music is a performed by the leader's eight wives.
The parking lot has designated spaces for aliens.
Fatigues must be worn at the church retreat.
The sacred writings are kept in a three-ring binder.
The church motto is "In Joseph We Trust."
I was told I could not go to the temple unless I started paying tithing. I was also told that I could not enter into the celestial kingdom unless I had been through the temple. I then asked my bishop "So what you're actually saying is, I have to pay an entrance fee to get into heaven!?" His reply was the one they always use when they don't have a come-back "Why don't you go home and pray about it". I find it funny that salvation would come with a price tag attached!
This is the kind of stuff that is thrown at you by a True Believing Mormon (TBM) when you leave the
Mormon Church. Notice it is all about them. Notice the threats, the guilt trips,
patting themselves on the back, the false accusations, etc.
These are some actual quotes TBM's said to us when we announced our decision to leave the church:
Mother1: "I can't believe how bad you turned out."
Mother2: "Shame on you! You should know better than that!"
Brother: "Don't try explaining, there's no excuse for leaving and you'll never convince me."
Brother in Law1: "You bastard. You've deceived our sister with your anti-mormon lies."
Brother in Law2: "I can't believe how stupid you are."
Sister in Law1: "I pray you come back before God punishes you."
Sister in Law2: "How can you betray your family like this?"
Father in Law: "Well, I don't know if the church is true or not, but I have a lot of friends there."
Mother in Law: "So what commandment couldn't you live?"
Missionary after I closed the door: "You still know it's true!"
TBM Friend: "I'm so dissapointed in you. What's wrong with you?"
TBM Friend: "I don't believe any of those anti-mormon lies. The Book of Mormon is true and that makes the church true - don't make excuses."
TBM Friend: "Well, I've had too many spiritual experiences with the Book of Mormon to ever deny it."
TBM Friend: "When things get really hard in your life, you'll come back. I hope it doesn't take a tragedy to get you to repent."
Here's some that others here have mentioned hearing from TBMs:
"I have heard you criticize and find fault with the Church so you can justify your decision to leave and this makes me very sad."
"What happened? I am disappointed in you!!"
"I hoped that by experiencing other Christian beliefs you would seek to gain a stronger testimony of the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ like I had done."
"My testimony of the Gospel has been challenged more than you will ever know, and I have stayed true to faith."
"I am deeply saddened that you have caved to the beliefs of man."
"You can go to some feel good Christian church as long as you want, but this church will never provide you with blessings of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ"
"You have no clue how much you have hurt mom/dad with your decision to leave the Church. How can you throw away everything she/he taught you like this?"
"Did you ever think just once what impact your decision would have upon ______?"
"I do not know about you, but I am choosing to Honor My Parents by staying true to the principles of Gospel Of Jesus Christ that we were taught as youth."
"How can you throw your missions away like this?"
"You may betray the truth but I will not."
"I hope you get your act together before your youngest child turns 8, as it would be a real shame for your children to grow up without the light of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ in their lives."
"I would gladly come and baptize ______ if _______ was given the opportunity to learn about the Church. I have seen a change for the worse in _____ countenance and this is really upsetting to me."
"It is clear that you blame the Church for much of your problems and you figure that by running away from the Church your problems will go away!! They may go away for a little while but they will be back. The easy way out is just that - the easy way out."
"I was pretty shocked when we visited you and when we said we were going to the Temple and I asked if you had seen it yet you said no."
"You now know how I feel. I will not say what I have just said again. You will be very upset with me with for the things I have just said! They are the truth and sometimes the truth hurts."
"You will probably find fault with me for telling you how it is."
"Those Mormons really attack you when you leave the church..etc...etc....blah, blah, blah." Get over it."
"Please do not try to explain to me why you left the Church, because there is no good reason to leave."
"You can call it the "Mormon Belief System," "Mormonism," or whatever you like. I will tell you what it is: It is The Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ!"
"You used to have such a SWEET spirit."
"How can you forget all the Lord has blessed you with?"
"You know what I pray for? That you'll come back to the Church."
"Your leaving the church has strenghthened our testimonies."
"If you don't have what it takes to live the Gospel, you should at least take your daughter to Church so that she can know the truth. She shouldn't suffer for your sake."
"Have your husband reread section 88 of the Doctrine and Covenants, because the sin on his head for leaving the Church as a priesthood holder is greater."
"Can we still send the Home Teachers and Visiting Teachers to your home?"
Bishop: It looks like you have been reading some anti-mormon
The church is true, just the people in it make mistakes. - boyscout
From my aunt: "You're mother would be so dissappointed that you are not raising your children in the church.(my mother had been dead for about 4-5yrs)" - Trish
From Dad - "Of course it's true, a 14 year old uneducated boy couldn't have written the BoM all by himself!!" He didn't appreciate it when I said, "Yeah, but he could have copied it all by himself." - Mr. Happy
My mom (rest her soul) told me the only things that would make her sadder where if I told her I never wanted to speak to her again or that I was getting divorced. Then she went on to say that at least I hadn't killed somebody and I was not gay. I kid you not. Later I go the speil about how blessed my life and marriage have been. Yep, I have been blessed and continue to be. :) - Diane
My mom said: "What are you going to do someday when you are dead and standing before the Lord and he says: "Why did you persecute my Church?" - One who knows
My mom said: "This is the worst possible thing you could have done." - anon
"But, if it weren't for the church, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN
BORN!" That one's from my mom...since they'd stopped having kids until they joined the
church, then had three more (I'm one of the younger 3).
Yeah, so, I guess because of that, I owe my life to the church? Good logic, Mom. - MollyNoMore
Stake President: (Hand raised to the square) I declare in the name of Jesus
Christ that this church is true.
Bishop: When I find myself out of synch with the prophet, it means I have to change. - Alan Hansen
"God will NOT be mocked." - exmorg
"Jesus is very disappointed in you." - Carrie
1. You'll come back after you know what it feels like without the
"You really do have a testimony, you just don't know it." - fat louis
From the bishop when I asked to be excommuicated: "But I don't sense any
bitterness from you...You will have a much more difficult time making the right
Damn Decon, you have some harsh family members. Makes me feel lucky. My family
tends to not say anything, about anything though, which may have something to do
with it. As for other reactions:
My brother told me that I was just pretending not to believe so that I could sin. Seems like I read something like that in the BofM at one point..... Hmmmmm...... - by Wag
From my cousin who was my best friend: "You are an enemy of the Church!" followed by "I can only associate with you if you no longer say anything bad about the Church." - afraid of the boogie brethren
From my mom: "You won't be able to be with us in the Celestial Kingdom."
I tell no lies, this was my response:
"Yeh right mom - like being in heaven with a bunch of mormons for eternity is my idea of fun."
My mom also told me I had a death wish and that I was destroying our family's reputation and that I was a son of perdition.
And her coup de grace:
"Look in the mirror - can't you see how ugly you are?"
Well, she got it all out of her system it seems and still calls me about a dozen times a week to tell me how dysfunctional the rest of the family is. That would be the family whose reputation I'm destroying. :-) - TLC
Twenty odd years ago, I was standing on a hilltop on the southern coast of France with my comp, overlooking the Mediterranean Sea. The particular parcel of land we were standing on was owned by the church—it had been for many, many years. They were in the process of getting permits to simply build a chapel. When I returned a couple of years ago, it was still an empty parcel of land, and they were still fighting for permits. I don’t think it is going to happen. The French see the mormons as a cult. In fact, I was so tired, as a missionary, of being labeled as a member of a cult, that I finally looked the word up in a dictionary so that I would have proof that we weren’t. My plan was to then give the dictionary definition of the word ‘cult’ to anyone that dared tell me that what I belonged to. Of course, being given that the French are so, well, soooo French—the definition of the word cult included the mormon church as an example!! This is the honest truth, not an exaggeration.
Given their history of strained relationships with the ‘Italian’ Catholics, the Templars, the Cathars, the birth of the Inquisition in Languedoc, etc., I don’t see them ever changing their minds. Oh God, I hated going door to door in that country!
I wish I could start a cult that was this successful. I would have it made then. My catch prhase would be "castles in heaven only cost half your income and all your women" - 06/09/2002 - anon
Believe it or not, I actually have been a Moonie and a Mormon and a
Catholic. So I think I have a pretty accurate opinion on the subject of
I was a teenager when I found the Unification Church of Rev. Moon and it became the central focus of my life. It helped me avoid the painful reality of my childhood. It seems like a dream now, but I was "married" at one of those big gatherings to a person I had never met before.
It was one of
the first such events and not properly organized like most of the later ones.
The women were mostly big fat ugly orientals and they just tried to line us up
and march us out as couples into the stadium. There was some pushing and cutting
in line on the part of some men trying to avoid or acquire one woman or another
and my glasses got broken. I was mad about that and so I grabbed this little
gook who was standing by one of the smaller girls. I couldn't see well enough to
tell how good looking she was but she had long bushy black hair and I threw him
on the ground. The ushers apparently didn't see any better than I and when he
screamed they assumed he was the problem and put him next to this awfully ugly
My new wife turned out to be 13 years old. Her parents were killed a couple years before and her siblings had been adopted by other Moonie families but I guess no one wanted her. She was physically very attractive but was barely in the first stage of puberty and she didn't speak much English, mostly Spanish which I didn't know. No one had told her about sex and she thought the whole idea was totally disgusting. I had to take her to the Elders of the church to get her to sleep with me and even then she hated it. And I discovered that if the girl isn't enjoying it, then it isn't much fun after awhile. She was suppose to get pregnant and raise up more Moonies but I think she was physically still too young. We didn't get along very well otherwise. You who have lived with young teenage girls know what I mean. When she got tired of being basically raped every night and started to doubt the religion, I felt like beating her. The first doubt for me came with the realization that she really did not want to do it, she really was too young in every way and the church was telling us to have children. So I ended up listening to her and we both woke up one day after our doubts snowballed and realized that we had been dubbed. We left each other and vanished from the cult.
A few weeks later the Mormon missionaries found me. I thought that they had all the answers and I felt many of the positive feelings at Mormon meetings that I had felt with the Moonies. I was baptised after only 3 days of investigating the Mormon church and everyone thought I had so much Faith. They asked me to do simple things that I didn't much like such as Home Teaching or helping people move. Being divorced and only 19 years old was a problem as far as missionary service goes. I wanted to be a Mormon Missionary but they were reluctant to let me go. When the new Bishop in the singles ward called me in and challenged me to get maried, I snapped. I told him that marriage decisions were not the business of church leaders and I was too young to be married.
The Catholic faith had all this pageantry and this one Priest from New Mexico reminded me of my Moonie wife. The Catholic church is not easy to join. I had to study for over a year before they let me in. I found a nice girl who had grown up in that religion and gone to private Catholic schools and married her. We were really into the Church while our children were younger. But I realized that most Catholics don't actually believe that the Pope knows what the hell he is talking about and they don't actually follow the teachings. Of course neither do the Mormons or the Moonies but they are far better at pretending. So I drifted away until I am like most Catholics who attend once or twice a year. My wife is still really active, even getting mystical about it. But this nagging realization would not go away, that if my first marriage was valid and real, which it seemed to be at the time, then I couldn't remarry and not violate the Bible teachings as understood by the Catholics. Even if some Priest guarantees that it was not a valid marriage before God, well I don't believe half of what else he says, so why this? My marriage is and needs to be valid independent of any religous considerations.
Anyway, my official opinion is that the Mormons are about half way between the Moonies and the Catholics on the cult scale. Mormons definitely have cultish tendencies but not nearly as bad as the Moonies. If you realize that the Romans thought that Christians of the first couple centuries were a cult, then I think there is hope for the Mormons. It will require maybe a thousand years of websites like this taking pot shots at them, but I think they will come around eventually.
05/25/2002 - anon
I am the Elder's Quorum secretary (I take the attendance role) and I am also a Stake missionary (although now its "ward" missionary). Anyway, after baptizing one guy, and teaching 3 others to baptism, I realized something. This church is a pyramid scam without a payoff. Just think, if you join and give 10% of your money, and then you get 10 other people to join and pay tithes, you can get a pat on the back and maybe a hot bishops daughter will take a likeing to you, but you cant screw her until you marry her.......... oh wait, what was i thinking, its the bishops daughter, she's better named "town bicycle". And if those 10 people all get 10 others to join, then everybody forgets about you and gives all the praise to the new 110 people in the church. The prophet makes a hell of a profit and you get blue balls.
02/17/2002 - anon
Salvador Dali was better candidate for prophet Seer and revelator, i would have figured out a better plan
12/20/2001 - from Matthew
Any good Christian knows that God accepts everyone no matter what sex or race. Mormonism apparently misheard that part of the Bible. Perhaps while reading the Bible as they get to the part of the Bible talking about equality and tolerance, the Mormon suddenly "cross-references" over to the Book of Mormon to read Alma 30 where God executes an athiest.
09/14/2001 - from NSEWanswers@aol.com
Hinckley can say anything he wants and it is from God. Cults thrive because there is no fixed standard of truth. Throughout history whenever the church sways away from the truth, God pulls it back first by renewing a desire to know the Word of God and see the error of our folly. Once the standard is fixed the would be prophets dwindle because they are the first to be judged against the standard they work so hard to remove.
The world is full of Smiths who are waiting for those who will believe anything that tickles the ears. The most seductive is "secret doctrine" because it gives special membership and fuels the pride of the haves over the have nots.
Ten Good Reasons to Stay in the COJCOLDS
1 I know the Church is true and GBH is a prophet
2 I know the Church is true and GBH is a prophet
3 I know the Church is true and GBH is a prophet
4 I know the Church is true and GBH is a prophet
5 I know the Church is true and GBH is a prophet
6 I know the Church is true and GBH is a prophet
7 I know the Church is true and GBH is a prophet
8 I know the Church is true and GBH is a prophet
9 I know the Church is true and GBH is a prophet
10 I know the Church is true and GBH is a prophet
That's good enough for me. I know it is, and I know that because I know that I know!
p.s. We never use Mantras unlike those Hare Krishna people.
These are the canonized sayings that are embedded in my head after 3 decades in the church:
1. I would like to bear my testimony....
2. I know the church is true.
3. Every member a missionary.
4. Write your tithing check first, then the Lord will bless you.
5. Fast 24 hours and donate a generous fast offering.
6. Marry in the temple. Don’t settle for anything less than a temple marriage.
7. Marry a returned missionary.
8. I hope they call me on a mission.
9. When I go on my mission....
10. Don’t date until you are 16.
11. I can’t wait until I’m 14 to go to a dance.
12. Save and redeem the dead.
13. Faith without works is dead.
14. Perfect the Saints. Redeem the dead. Do missionary work.
15. Do your home/visiting teaching.
16. Don’t wear shorts, dresses above your knee.
17. No sleeveless clothes.
18. Have a year’s supply of food.
19. Don’t delay having children.
20. Have a large family.
21. Don’t take birth control.
22. Follow the brethren.
23. God will not let the prophet lead you astray.
24. Keep your eye on the prophet.
25. Attend seminary.
26. Have your family home evenings on Monday night.
27. Family first.
28. Keep the sabbath day holy.
29. Obey the word of wisdom.
30. Read from the Book of Mormon at least 20 minutes a day.
31. A testimony must contain 3 parts: Joseph Smith was a prophet, the BOM is true and Jesus is the Christ.
32. Feed the missionaries.
33. Our temple covenants aren’t secret, they’re sacred.
34. Wear your temple garments day and night.
35. Do not affiliate with any anti groups.
36. Never refuse a calling. The Lord will bless you. We have been inspired to call you to this position.
37. If you criticize your bishop, you are on the road to apostasy.
38. Go to homemaking meeting.
39. Get delay getting married after a mission.
40. Avoid debt.
41. Live within your means.
42. We fought a war in the pre-existence for our free agency.
43. All in favor, signify by raising the right hand. Any opposed?
44. It is a wicked and abominable generation that seeketh after signs.
45. Have a current temple recommend whether you use it or not.
First, these sayings are deeply founded in belief in the church’s components. No mention of the Savior or his mission. Largely, a belief in rules made by man. These remarks, to me, wreak heavily of socialism and communism. No individuality is present. A total conformity and obligatory obedience to manmade precepts that have no heavenly bearing what so ever.
10/05/2000 - anon
I finally figured out the dynamics of getting sucked into a cult. You have to be borderline manic-depressive, like Old Joe. If not, then you have to meet the following criteria, and then you will BECOME manic-depressive over time with the Mormons:
1) be physically isolated, such as away at college, in a new town, new job, just got divorced, etc.
2) be emotionally vulnerable, having just experienced some form of LOSS.
3) be so freaking lonely that you would actually listen to those ridiculous "lessons".
02/28/2000 - anon
Q: Do you know the difference between a Mormon and God?
A: God does not think He is a Mormon.
01/23/2000 - anon
They don't stay in the Mormon Church because they know it is true. They stay in because it's good for business.
10/07/1999 - anon
[mocking voice] "Beware of the False, prophets!!!" You think your God don't you?!?![/mocking voice].. (check the last general conf if you dont know what I am talking about.)
09/26/1999 - Gaylan
Subject: God and Sex!
In the Washington Post this past Sunday there was a big article on a new book by David Thibodeau (a survivor of the David Koresh, Waco compound incident) entitled "A Place Called Waco: A Survivor's Story." Most of us realize there are similarities between Koresh and Josphe Smith but I thought it a good idea to share his insights.
Thibodeau calls him "my friend and teacher, a gentle and sincere soul who preached an incredible message that was 100 percent spiritual." He also says he was "either a genius or a loony.... either inspired or nuts." He says he still isn't sure which he was! DUH!!!!!! Remind you of any JS sayings??? " For Thibodeau and other survivors, Koresh was no false prophet-- he was a 33 yr. old carpenter who correctly predicted he would be crucified by a government "Beast". His role, he told followers, was to fulfill the doomsday prophecies of the Bible's mysterious Book of Revelation. He considered himself a sinful Messiah-anointed by God to deflower virgins, sire two dozen children, and amass an army of zealots to make a final stand against the forces of "Babylon"when Armageddon arrived."
" Among the surviving Davidians, are hard core believers who say that Koresh will actually make a return engagement for the new millennium, floating back on a cloud of Glory. Thibodeau doesn't rule out that possibility."
Thibodeau was a drummer and was attracted by Koresh because of his love of rock and roll. He says when he first arrived at Mt. Carmel, the "House of David," he didn't know many details such as Koresh having seventeen children with a dozen wives.
" Koresh often told Thibodeau that he was glad the drummer came to him unchurched. It made him more willing to accept Koresh's sin on the Book (Bible)...... Thibodeau now realizes that he may have succumbed to groupthink at Mt. Carmel, and created a father figure in Koresh. Could the prophet have been brainwashing him? " I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed", he admits, but also points out that people much smarter than he- longtime divinity students, even a Harvard law graduate- felt Koresh was a genuine prophet." ( HUM, validating "feelings"??)
" The toughest choice to make was to renounce sex- something Koresh demanded of all men in the group, even the married ones. The leader said he would assume the "burden" of sexuality for the flock,. men had to turn their wives over to him so he could produce the 24 special offspring to ascend to Heaven when the final battle came..... Other followers broke with Koresh on just this point, but Thibodeau believed Koresh when he invoked Scripture to justify his polygamous lifestyle. Thibodeau saw it as "not an easy truth to stand up for, but " I haven't seen any truth more complete. In totality, it made sense. Thibodeau also thinks that a higher law may have sanctioned Koresh's behavior, that it was what prophecy required and speculates that this taboo behavior might have been part of God's difficult message, "a stumbling block" to test their faith in Koresh."
"But disaffected followers say the focus on the seven seals was essential to Koresh's brainwashing. "Vernon (Koresh) used Bible knowledge to convince us he was a prophet. Once he managed that we did what we did out of fear," says Baranyai, an apostate (there's other ones out there! ; ) ) quoted in Marc Breault's book. " None of us wanted to go to Hell. " " I've just seen far too much," the drummer of the Apocalypse says." I know why I believe what he taught. ...And I know why all those people died for what they believed. He's either true or he is the greatest actor and con man that ever lived. And I don't think that he was."
10/04/1999 - anon
That expresses that "lying for the lord" is acceptable. Whos leaders can without question espouse views that contradict fomer leadership and/or scriptures.
09/26/1999 - anon
This cult sounds great I wish I was in a kick ass cult like this one.
09/30/1999 - Gavin
They don't stay in the Mormon Church because they know it is true. They stay in because they don't know it is false.
When a Mormon tells me he knows something is true because he has a "burning in his bosom," I say, "Rolaids spells Relief." - 07/15/2005 - anon
Was Joseph Smith on LSD when he started the LDS church? - 07/19/2005 - anon
Visiting my grandparent's grave, I spoke to my mother about the clothes they were buried in and realized that 90% of the people buried there were dressed in the same clothes. My mother responded: that's a sign of a cult. - 01/09/2013 - lk
I would like to address the angry Mormons who responded to this board. This is my story with real facts and people:
I was born fifth generation Mormon in north-eastern Oregon. My ancestors go back to Nauvoo. I am related to Thomas McBride, who was killed in the Haun's mill massacre. I was raised to despise the "mobs" that killed McBride and Joseph Smith. I was told that Satan ran these mobs the way a cowboy would run a herd of cattle. Don't you think that the people who hated Joseph Smith might have had a motive?
A lot of men lost their life savings because of Joseph Smith's speculations. He smashed a printing press at Nauvoo, a violation of the first amendment, and therefore a federal crime. He formed an independent army within the borders of the U.S., which was treason. This is why he was jailed in Independance, Missouri.
When I learned the truth about Mormon history, I knew that Mormonism was not right for me, and I told my father, at which point he decided to hate me. Okay? That was his decision to chose a religion over his first born son. Wanna talk about family values?
Some people, and I'm one of them, believe that humor is the best medicine for a broken heart. And my heart was broken when I learned that my family was decieved for five generations. My father would rather shun me than admit he was hornswoggled. That's the very definition of a dupe, if you ask me. - 11/15/2009 - Don Bagley
well... i am a member but I dont feel like i'm getting anything from it. I'm considering going inactive because I dont want to make a rash decision that would be extremely difficult to take back (such as leaving the church) but i really just dont like religion right now.obviously i got to this site for my own reasons. I was reviewing everything i have felt about the church growing up, the decisions i made just to keep my parents happy, and the fact that I cant tell them how im feeling now because they love the lds church so much. i saw how much it hurt them when my sister left the church and i couldnt possibly do the same to my parents again. - 10/29/2009 - decision in progress
you guys have no idea what youre talking about! were not a cult!!!!! i have had absolute joy in the mormon church, not unhappiness, and thats because i know the mormon church is true!!! - 09/15/2009 - person
My experience with the mormon faithful has shown me that their flaws are OK but mine will prevent me from going to heaven. The sisters been knocked up twice by a drug dealer, the brother is a druggie, the other brother is on the way, the mother is an insincere fake, however the dad seems to be normal. That is probably explained by the heavy medication he takes. I wouldnt object to any of this, they aren't my problems, but when they try and push their doctrine on me and tell me what i believe is wrong, the hypocrisy makes me sick. Im sorry im not into marrying 8 wives and thinking that 99 percent of the world is doomed to hell. Mormonism should not be considered a religion, rather a cult. - 09/13/2009 - anon
I'm originally from SoCal and I relocated to Provo, Utah (Mormon Mecca). I was at the lowest point in my life. I had no friends and finally I made new ones and yes, they were all mormon. I began to attend seminary and I met this wonderful seminary teacher. They helped me out and really took care of me. I never felt alienated. All I can say is that not all mormons are crazy. Like in every other religion, there is good people and there is bad people. It does seem like a cult, but frankly, its not. - 04/02/2009 - RLy
You all are ridicoulous. its funny that you all write so much about a religion that you all have no clue about. mormons believe in Christ - 03/04/2009 - Matt
My father became Mormon after marrying his second wife. (after divorcing my mother) According to my stepmother he was a Melchezedek priesthood bearer and was in full attendance of their ward. I guess the "burning in his bosom" was too much to take and one day he blew his lung (nad part of his heart out) with his hunting rifle. They gave him a Mormon burial and then tried to convert me and my older brothers by telling us we would "live together forever." My mother would have none of it and cut all contact between us and our stepmother.
If those garments are suposed to be so protective, why did they not protect him that fateful day he pulled the trigger? If the church brings inner peace then what happened to him? I think instead of making him feel better he may have felt that his bi-polar disorder was more of a reflection with how unhappy God was with him so he decided to end his pain. I wonder how many Mormons have plastered smiles on their faces whle contemplating taking that final bow? - 02/04/2009 - BrokenDaughter
My husband was raised Mormon but no longer practices. He is also a wonderfuly kind and generous person. He has a good job, makes a good living for us, is successful, helps out around the house, does volunteer work...He is patient and loving and kind.
All his mother ever says about him is that she is disappointed with the choices he has made in life. Her son is such a fine and good-hearted human being, and all she can say is that she is disappointed! She has repeatedly told me, the Jew, that she prays that he will return to the church. - 12/15/2008 - LeighAnn
we are not acult we do not have to give money it is a choice and we do not have to talk about our sex life - 12/04/2008 - anon
I have figured out that the only thing the mormons are afraid of is gays i think they think that gays are going to take over the world i say that they need to take care of what is in the church then what is out of the church
in my book i agree that the mormon chruch is a cult and the government needs to step in and shut them down
and being a cult and not a church they need to pay taxes on every thing that they own - 12/02/2008 - amham98 - provo mormon ripped me off
In regards to Hanna re "mormons don't tell folks that they are going to hell" NOT TRUE. When I attended church and had many doubts, I was often told that if I left the church I would go to hell. I left they church some years back because my child was of mixed race, I was told by the bishopric that any color to the skin was the mark of the devil and that my child could not be baptized into the mormon church. I left because I didn't and don't believe that God favors only certain people. In the bible there were many races of people, and all were accepted by God and Christ, also sinners of all types. It is not up to us to judge whom God will like or dislike, only he has that privaledge. We need only to treat others as we would be treated and mind our own lives. Mormons intimidate the members to stay faithful, they are brainwashed without a doubt. - 11/19/2008 - julia
I met a lovely young woman who is very smart, well-traveled and attractive. I admire her values and goals but feel very, very sorry for her. She is a complete, total Mormon-absolutely lost to me. I realize she was raised in this intense atmosphere and has turned her sizeable intellect to justifying her beliefs. It's really, really sad. I believe that all organized religion is a bad thing. I think the pope should be prosecuted for crimes against humanity. I believe it is child abuse to make children go to church. There brains are being filled with false thinking before they area old enough to use their brains independently. - 11/10/2008 - Gronk
I went to a singles ward one time, because I talked to some missionary about if had any cool single stuff, I had a few beer when I talked to them so I thought they were cool. So when Sunday came around at 1pm I showed up kind of hung over so I downed sparks malt liquor energy drink in the parking lot of the ward came in all buzzed laughed my ass off and they laughed, beets me why they did anyway long story short they where crazy it turned out because when I talked to them when I didn't have any drinks in me they got me too read the book of Mormon that book was waste of time. Talk about a book easy put down. I have read a lot of the bible and even spent hours at time reading it and I have to say if that was left out the bible it was for good reason. - 10/04/2008 - Jake
Just educated some Mormon elders on a college campus today. They were so pathetic. No basis for their arguments outside of circular reasoning and flawed logic. So easily caught up in "feeling" the truth instead of examining the truth objectively. Regardless, when we parted, they were frustrated and I was quite ecstatic! - 07/22/2008 - Jeff
I'm not going to write very much, it's late. I'll just say that I hold a PhD in Clinical Psychology and have studied mormonism extensively. Although mormonism seems to adhere to many 'pop psychology' views of what a cult behaves like which many amatuers wrongly use to give an 'expert diagnosis' on the organization...(e.g. this web-site), the mainstream mormon church is not a cult. Many people dislike their doctrine so much that they label it a cult to further condemn the organization but unfortunately for such people, it simply isn't a pejorative cult. If you'd like real information regarding how harmful cults function please consult scholary, non religious (hence non-biased) chapters and articles regarding the matter. Speaking as a Christian...we only make mainstream Christianity look bad when we ignorantly attack mormons in such a fashion...they know that they're not a cult too and we look uninformed when we insist they are.
God Bless - Chris - 07/21/2008
My mother told me today that she has been baptized as a MORMON. I started crying and she was upset because I wasn't happy for her. I told her she has turned her back on everything she has ever been taught. She told me THEY have been good to her and helped her... she is 70. I told her THAT is how they get you - they suck you in by being nice. When I brought up some of the things I KNOW about this CULT, she told me she was sure she could find bad things about my religion also. I told her join my religion and see. She seemed quite insulted, but I told her, I HAVE BEEN THERE. I was befriended at one of the lowest times of my life by a mormon. I did join them, I was baptized...then one day about a year later I WOKE up. When I hear about the different levels of heaven, that humans become Gods and Goddesses, that Jesus was in N. America, that the garden of eden is in Missouri I cringe. And to top it of, Joseph Smith decided he wanted more than one woman to meet his needs. Where in the Bible does it say a man shall join his WOMEN??? I have to admit, he did have writing talent. He wrote his books to back up what he preached. Also, I'm sure that when I one day reach heaven, I will know my loved ones. I don't have to sit, invest lots of time and money to figure out who my relatives are. (Geneology)
Does anyone have any thoughts on what I can tell my mom, to bring her to her senses? She doesn't have a lot (posessions or money) and I am terrified for her well being. - 06/10/2008 - kerribear
I was raised Mormon too and just because I don't buy into the weird beliefs doesn't mean that I think it's a cult.
I'm a religion major in college and love to learn about other religions. Believe me, there are cults out there, but Mormonism isn't one of them. - 06/01/2008 - KW
Ok to start off, I'm a devout Christian. My son's grandparents are Mormons and very active in it. They've always insisted in taking my 4yr old to church every Sunday. Well I decided to do some research on mormonism and I think it is a cult. What's with them stalking they're house full of groceries? Why in the world would they do that? And if they're so Holy n Great, how come there's SO MANY wesites and books and PEOPLE against them? Any religion has that but there's is excessive. Hey but there's no sexual abuse like in the catholic church right? Just curious... - 04/30/2008 - Jamie R.
Being mormon, and reading this page, puts a trembling in my soul for those who can not look past the insecurity and lack of will in man. This is easily just another internet site that tries to deprive the nation and world as a whole of a good and truthful meaning and teaching. When i try and research a site for a spiritual belief, you have to be open to the work and try to infer the meaning into your own life or in your won sense. But this is not always the case as shown here. The Author of this page as twisted and manipulated these words of good and fruitful baring and made them sound and reek of pity and sorrow. If you would but look at the foxnews.com question site that is displayed and then look at the questions that he says are the answers that were given by the church on HIS page. You can clearly see and translate the Foxnews.com answers as a more whole and truthful answer, and his answer as a twisted version, one of ideals following the works Satan himself. If the author proclaims himself as a discerner of truth and can transmit knowledge to people like you and/or me, he should look no further than the Bible itself. Because as the Mormon's believe in the works of the Book of Mormon and other doctrines given from God and Jesus themselves, we believe in the teachings of the bible. In the Bible it clearly state that Satan, the evil one, twists words and feeds us truth with a little evil attached. So that we will fall into damnation and make us feel unworthy. This author is doing the exact same, he is taking a bit of the truth and splicing it with the knowledge that is of the devil. I beg you to not read such works like this and take literal meaning, if you have a feeling go to your nearest church and discuss with the missionaries or your nearest friend or relative that knows about the church truthfully. And remember go with a open mind and soul to whatever it is you are seeking. - 04/04/2008 - Taylor (First one in line for the Kool-aid) Sullivan
This website makes me sad. I am a member of this church, and almost nothing said on this site is true. please don't believe it. We don't tell anyone they're going to hell. We aren't a cult. We are happy people because we are doing our best. the reason we tell others is so they can find the same happiness we do. if you are going to judge our church, feel free. just please make sure you have correct information. sites like this are not the way. try lds.org thanks. - 03/06/2008 - Hannah
On 3/6/08, someone named Hannah posted this: "This website makes me sad..."
Well, Hannah, you know what makes me sad? People like you who follow the Mormon Party Line and say things like "we aren't a cult" (like Richard Nixon saying, "I'm not a crook"); and who say that you don't tell anyone that they're goig to Hell because to Mormons, anything other than the CK is Hell. Plain and simple. And yes, dear, the Mormon Church is a cult. Please do some research before you spout platitudes. - 07/12/2009 - Diane
Hello if the mormon god is a man..My question is this.,.WHO IS THE GRAND-FATHER??? I sure would like to know since no one can give me an answer sind e mormonis is greatly interested in Geneology..so I pray someone can give me an answer.. - 02/12/2008 - Elizabeth
Apostle Ezra Taft Benson lavishly asserted about the authority of the church president and said the "LIVING PROPHET" is morevital to believers than "DEAD PROPHETS," the Mormon scriptures, o the Bible. So tell me who/what is more important - the messenger or the message. I am no longer a moron(oops I meant a mormon). I have found that I am a happy person without someone tell me if I keep busy I will be happy. - 02/11/2008 - Alwayshelen
I am absolutely new to this internet voo-doo stuff, and I am having a wonderful time looking up all this information...I was a "cradle catholic"...old school, Latin Mass, novenas,rosary, ad nauseum...not until I was about 45-ish, did I question anything...then I was ruthless! Indeed, The Catholic church is a Grandfather in the mind-numbing world of cults. I was also a church secretary for 6 yrs (helpingwith the cost of parochial school for 2 daughters) It is absolute bliss to have no guilt about questioning the total hypocracy, greed,"spiritual" power of this 20-century-old cult! Thanks to all of you who enlightened me a bit more! - 01/15/2008 - betsy Custer
I am a confused ex mormon...............You see I had a burning in my bosom. Now could this be self hypnosis? I have been told this is the power of the holy ghost telling me the church is true any comments would be appreciated. - 01/11/2008 - Johnny confused
you people are CHRISTIAN right? i wonder how and where the word 'kicking ass' can it be found in the bible? i'm sure you been reading bible,gavin? - 01/06/2008 - garconi
I'm confused why you think mormonism is a cult just because joseph smith had many wives. Big deal so did Brigham Young had ore than one wife, long long ago in almost every country man had more then one wife by god people got married at 14 and 16. We don't pratice that now well some of those crazy pologomist do but it doesn't mean in our age now were we don't have to pratice such thing, means we approve it. So what it was such long ago and back then it was alright. - 12/18/2007 - ashlee
Well I am jewish but was raised mormon. I read this page to see if I could find out if mormon was a cult, and well this page seemed to fail. I'm not understanding how you wrote a section on how people react when you give up your religion, of course your family would be angry. Just imagine a orthodox jewish familt getting told by there son that they don't wanna be jewish, it would be world war 3 as in any family that strongly believes in a religion. I found tiny, tiny clues on the LDS church being a cult but I would say it was poorly written and convinved nothing. - 12/18/2007 - sage
When Mormons tell me I'm going to Hell, I have a quick response: "Do you know what sounds really good when you have a migrane? Outer darkness. You're giving me a headache." - 03/21/2007 - Natalie
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