Conversations With Joseph

Introduction and Background

After studying Joseph Smith, Jr for over thirty years, reading and hearing what many others people have said about him, I decided to bypass the middle man and go directly to Joseph Smith, Jr. I sought out the best and most respected channel and spiritual medium in Salt Lake City, Suzanne Wagner and directly contacted Joseph Smith, Jr through her in February and April of 1999. Suzanne Wagner is not LDS, has not studied Mormonism and was as familiar with Joseph Smith, Jr. as most non-LDS people are. When Suzanne says, "He says", she means Joseph Smith is talking directly to her. When Suzanne says "They say", she means that her personal guides are telling her something. Your responses and comments may be posted at the conclusion.

Conversations With Joseph

Suzanne: I am actually feeling a person who is very earthy, very grounded, passionate and sensual. I was expecting someone who was very ethereal. I am feeling the energy pretty strong so you can ask anything that you want.

Steven: Joseph has a background of digging in the earth, farming and being very earth oriented. He was very passionate and energetic.

Suzanne: He has a quality that I can compare to a cross between a Martin Luther King and a Hitler, (laughter) with the intense voice and commanding presence. He had a dramatic vocal quality, spoke very passionately about things and was not intimidated easily. There was something about him, an aura and mystery, so people were not quite sure about him one way or the other. There was something about him that was god like and something that was powerful and something that was unknown to them. It was maybe a little spooky on some level and maybe intimidating. There is a feeling from him that he could not really say everything that he thought or really saw. He saw a lot of stuff that even for this day and age would be pretty different, not crazy, but revolutionary. On some things he would be more understandable in the 21st century rather than back when ever he was. Some of his perceptions about human relationships and sexuality would be more modern. Part of the mystique was that he did not say everything he thought.

Steven: Joseph, my perception of you is a mixed one, containing adoration and respect and then also scepticism and mistrust. Are you familiar with me and any of my personal experiences that directly relate to you and your life in the 1800's?

Suzanne: The mystery of him drew you and excited you more when you were younger. Like you really reached out and tried to connect with him. He feels obligated and responsible because of this church thing. There is this feeling tone that you have been in a particular place that he was also in at a particular time and that there was a real strong spiritual connection at that point. You had a spiritual blending and connection with him at that time. He thinks that you rejected his energy at some point due to self doubt. He thinks that a little doubt is a healthy thing. He thinks that when he was alive he was not very tolerant of doubters. He thinks that this is his karmic thing is to be compassionate. He thinks that he was very righteous and that was part of his genetic programing and he thinks it was also part of the time period he was in. He is in this altered plane and has a better overview at this point.

Steven: Joseph, are you in modern and current time or are you still in 1800's time?

Suzanne: My guides think that Joseph Smith has not reincarnated since his death. The reason for this is that he created this whole thing called "The Mormon Church". He became a spiritual anchor for certain things and in a way it is like a person from the 1800's who understands the modern time period but that has his own karma and slant on things from that time period. There is part of him still in that time period.

Steven: Joseph, what was your personal reaction to the surgery that you had as a young child?

Suzanne: He says that it was frightening but mind expanding. This is a man who does not like to have things happen out of control. The surgery had a lot of impact in his later life. It altered and widened his mind and perception on certain levels and also made things more imperative and pushed things more. He had a feeling that he would die young so he pushed himself and challenged himself to do something and to make a difference.

Steven: Joseph, after the surgery and you started to heal you were sent somewhere. What was your reaction to that?

Suzanne: On one level it was a relief to not be around his family and to have some private and quiet time and to do some inner searching. The guides think that it was an important piece of the journey that was coming. He thinks that his family was not the easiest to live with and was difficult at times.

Steven: Joseph, you have a brother whose name is in my mind and I am not saying out loud who that brother is. What is your relationship with that brother like now? (I actually had his brother, Alvin in my mind.)

Suzanne: A very complex question actually. His comment is that his brother has reincarnated more times for different reasons. He has a lot of in completions there so it is a difficult subject. There are still a lot of unresolved issues and frustration between the two of them according to the guides. Because Joseph Smith is not reincarnating he can only assist and guide and his brother does not let him in much. It is like a rift and chasm. My guides are saying that it is not a "higher or lower" but a huge difference of opinion and that his brother is holding a grudge. Joseph has not even worked through it completely but he does understand this better than his brother.

Steven: Joseph, I do not know if you are aware or not, but there is a newly organized group of your descendants called "Joseph Smith, Jr Family Association". What is your response to this?

Suzanne: It is mixed, on one level he wishes that everybody would "get on with it" and on another level he recognizes that this is genetic karma and he has to deal with this pattern that he created. So his line created a particular pattern and he wants them to transcend and step beyond it. They are using it as a crutch in order to keep themselves important. He thinks that it is more ego in it than there is spiritual stuff even though he tries to put spiritual stuff in there. It is more about self importance and that this is a family trait so it is his karma to deal with this self importance righteousness thing and he wishes that they would get over it.

Steven: Joseph, how aware are you of current Mormon church affairs and its president, Gordon B. Hinckley? And what are your impressions?

Suzanne: . He knows about Gordon B. Hinckley and understands church dynamics because he is responsible for starting the church. (laughter) His comment that made me laugh was, "In my time we would call Gordon Hinckley a sop. (laughter) He thinks that he is soppish, a wet rag, limp, no substance, no charisma and flat. (laughter). It is kind of like the Pope in relationship to the Catholic Church, flat and dead.

Steven: Joseph, I get the impression that you get bored easily and if something does not have a spark or energy to it, then the hell with it?

Suzanne: He has a go for it energy and there is something about him that is very dynamic. He almost liked a little bit of opposition because it gave him something to push against. The feeling tone is that with a little resistance he can move people more.

Steven: So Joseph, what about Brigham Young? You knew him well, for at least ten years.

Suzanne: He thinks that he was a man of passion and appreciates him from that position. He was a man of insight and he and Joseph understood each other well. There is an understanding of the intensity of the feeling and comradeship there. He does not completely agree with the turns that the Church took, but he said, "I was gone, so maybe I should not have a say in that?" Somebody took over from there and did it with passion so he does not discount that Brigham Young did it with passion and very intensely and a hundred percent presence. He thinks that Brigham Young is inconsistent (laughter) and says one thing and does another. "The thing I liked best about Brigham was that he smoked."

Steven: Joseph are you aware of the current quorum of the twelve apostles and if so what is your opinion of Boyd K. Packer?

Suzanne: The feeling tone that entered my body was like "stuck heart" energetically. It feels like a shield and closed wall, almost like this person does not breathe. So it is like this person is stifling, constricted, opinionated, more dark than light and hides behind a cloak of goodness. There is a part of himself that he hides.

Steven: That energetically is my impression also so Suzanne and Joseph, I do not know if you two are picking up my projection or if you are actually sharing the perception? I do not want to project and influence your own impressions.

Suzanne: The guides actually say that it is the energy that this person puts out if anyone is in tune enough to notice.

Steven: Joseph, I get mixed energy from various members of the Quorum of the Twelve individually?

Suzanne: He says that they are a very mixed bag. He thinks that there are three in there that are really good and hold a lot of light. He says that even if the lenses are a little misplaced the light still shines through, but that the rest of them are very dark. Isn't that really weird? I am really surprised.

Steven: How can this be, a group of holy men having darkness in them?

Suzanne: The comments from the guides are that this is totallyl human nature, unfortunately. He recognized as he was creating the Church that it was hard for him to express what his experience was completely to another person. He tried and thought that he could, but he now recognizes and after he died that people's interpretation is based on their own experience, so it twists. The light twists and fragments and distorts and sometimes totally goes into shadow. Some of these beings seek out male dominated closed societies in which to operate.

Steven: The Church is such a big entity and has so much energy.....

Suzanne: (laughter) His comment is, "So is cancer." (laughter)

Steven: Please say what you need to say about the Book of Mormon.

Suzanne: It is like a channeled book that came from a gold vibration wave that flowed through him. It was translated to the best of his ability based on his belief systems at the time. He really experienced this and is very passionate about it. This is like a spiritual translation and very important to him but he recognizes now that it was channeled through the density of light of the 1800's. He could only channel it through the density that he was carrying. His comment, "Today would it look different? Yes. Would the experience still be the experience? Yes, and he can not invalidate the experience even though it was highly questionable."

Steven: Joseph, today, is the Book of Mormon story true? Were there really Nephites and did those people really come from Jerusalem and navigate to this continent?

Suzanne: His experience is that it was real. His experience now is that he was seeing an overlap of time. He recognizes that was real in some place or time and he is not sure that place and time was on this earth, but that it existed somewhere. So, he says, "Is it absolutely one hundred percent literal time period? Probably not. Is it absolutely true in some time period? Absolutely." My guides are saying that it was a real event that Joseph was experiencing on another plane. There have been throughout time great teachers that tend to come back into critical time periods and his experience of that being known as Jesus here, he had an experience of in another plane and another place. He was trying to connect the two planes.

Steven: So Joseph, you can not really verify that Nephi and Lehi lived in Jerusalem and came across the ocean and started the Native American race on this continent?

Suzanne: Yes, what you said is basically correct. If he was having the same spiritual experience today, he would call it some kind of past life experience. There was no metaphor for that back then. So here he was having this total physical, bodily, visual, three dimensional story experience and the only way he could translate that was to put it into a local time period. The story translation to the city of Jerusalem is his ego's interpretation and assignment to a time period that others could understand and relate to.

Steven: Joseph, so where did the Native American people come from then?

Suzanne: He thinks that they actually came from the Chinese, Siberian, Mongolian area and came across the ice bridge. What added to that was the Vikings that made it to America. He thinks that Egyptians also traded with South America and that the Pharos used cocoa leaves. The trade routes went through Morocco. There was an overlap of gene pools with Africa and the Vikings and Native Americans.

Steven: So did you really have "golden plates?"

Suzanne: He says that "Spiritually I had the plates but I did not really have the plates." He says that in order to give things congruency it was a subtle lie that turned into a reality. He had talked about seeing these plates and that this translation was coming through him and his thinks that somebody started to say that he actually had them. And these arguments started ensuing and he started to just say that the plates were real.

Steven: So Joseph, did you enjoy stretching the truth and getting some energy going in your behalf?

Suzanne: (laughter) Yes, he says that sometimes in order to inspire people you have to be a good actor.

Steven: What about the Urim and Thummin?

Suzanne: He thinks that he did have it. He meditated with two different things. One feels crystalline and one does not. So one is like a crystal and one is like a stone. He used it as meditation and focusing tool. When he was having a spiritual experience and when he was to go find the gold tablets, he dug into the ground and found this crystal and did not find the gold plates. The crystal became the focus point then. The crystal really contained the information that became the Book of Mormon.

Steven: Joseph, what about the Book of Abraham?

Suzanne: He thinks that he wrote it and most of his writing comes from a spiritual experience and he felt like a channel. He would go into an alter trance kind of state and access information. For him, he felt very much like Abraham.

Steven: Joseph, do you have a response to the Kinderhook Plate incident?

Suzanne: He thinks that they were heavy and shiny, with symbols on them. He is laughing from the standpoint now of how, "I could get a little out there." He means that he had an ability to track other dimensions. He could see qualities on the plates similar to qualities that he had in his mind. He thinks that a long time ago before the white man came that the Indians did a lot of trade in gold and spiritual and powerful items. He thinks that he associated in his mind these old things with Aztecan or Mayan culture. He was amazed at what he could see.

Steven: The Kinderhook Plates were designed to trick Joseph into translating something that was not real.

Suzanne: (laughter) So obviously it worked. No wonder he was laughing a moment ago. He was surprised to see something similar to what he was in his head. He says that he was definitely hood winked and that he did not like to look embarrassed and that he could translate anything so his ego thought he could translate the Kinderhook Plates, even if it were gibberish.

Steven: Joseph, what about the mummies and papyrus fragments and your translations of that?

Suzanne: He says that in his state of mind back then that he saw connections to all things. He thinks that the energy of Egypt does connect to the energy of the Americas. He loved to see all that stuff and was fascinated by it. To him, it coming to him was a spiritual sign and in his delusion it was a proof that I was moving in the right direction even when, "I was not. My mind wanted so much to believe I was moving in the right way." He sees himself as a dreamer who wanted to create a Utopia.

Steven: Joseph, did you ever have access to a book called, View of the Hebrews?

Suzanne: When he was younger somebody had the book but he was not allowed to look at it. He snuck a look at the book anyway and says that it did have an influence on him. You start saying ‘Hebrew" and you get biblical energy. There was that draw and mystical sense about them.

Steven: What about free masonry Joseph, your comments?

Suzanne: " Some of that also got me into trouble," he says. He said that he had exposure to that and it was actually quite common then. There was a lack of male bonding with men working hard and in a harsh environment. Masonry was an interesting blend of Christianity and Saxony tradition, with secrecy and symbols. He was always drawn to mystery, ritualistic initiatory processes. This was a normal thing back then.

Steven: Joseph, one of your wives was a widow of a prominent mason. Any comments?

Suzanne: She was a great influence and very observant and did not miss a shot. She was curious and well learned in certain things and understand the rituals. She actually gave him quite a bit of insight into the cabalistic, Christianity mix of things. He says, "She and I had many great discussions. The sex was not great (laughter) but the discussions were great.(laughter).

Steven: Speaking of sex. What kind of sexual relations do you have in your realm, Joseph?

Suzanne: He thinks that the realm that he exists in, intercourse is an energetic thing. It definitely exists but does not look the same. It is about matching tones and vibrations. It is similar to how all the monks get together and resonate with tones and create a tone of their own. Because he is in spirit body it is a vibration experience. "Sex is better over here," he says.

Steven: So you do not have to have resurrected body to enjoy sexual relations as Mormon doctrine preaches?

Suzanne: He says that the Mormon group is rather subdued. The ones that really rock are like the high level Tantric masters that totally blows your mind from a human standpoint. They can really do some stuff energetically. It also depends on how much shame that you have. He has tried to release that shame but people still arrive to this realm very shame based. He thinks that he is more open than most people. Now, I have so many millions of wives that energetically is the only way you can do it. There are just so many, and "not that I mind." he says.

Steven: So you in your realm are not reproducing?

Suzanne: He thinks that what creates form is God and not that they do not reproduce, but it is God that make this choice. There are a few high ranking arch angel vibrations that can reproduce, but that most of us are not aware what a delicate balance to life there is. There are certain control measures that ensure properness and prevent randomness. It is God deciding on a higher echelon who is to be born. He does not pretend to understand the vibratory pattern of creation of life. He would rather make love energetically to many, he says.

Steven: Joseph when you were older you were traveling around Missouri and name a certain valley Adam Ondi Ohman. What was that about?

Suzanne: He had a profound spiritual experience there. He says, "In talking to you it is therapeutic, as you say because I get to say some things that I could not say back then. At the time I was in this area I was the sole support for this group. It was up to me if they lived, had housing, food to eat or be thrown out of towns, all depended upon me. This was a lot of pressure and dealing with displaced people you have to find moments of spiritual oneness to bring hope back in. I was good at that. It was a harsh period. I often though of myself as Moses in the desert. That valley was at a time when things were really bad. He gave it that name to connect people back to the Father energy and back to their roots and resiliency to the human spirit.

Steven: Joseph, the recorded history is that you told the group that this was the original garden of Eden and that Adam built an alter there. That is pretty hard to believe?

Suzanne: That is a reality check that you are correct on. He said that he made it up in order to give the group hope during their long journey.

Steven: There was some news from the LDS Church recently about a temple being rebuilt that you were involved with? Any reaction?

Suzanne: It is hard for Suzanne to translate because she does not know what the announcement is. He says that the announcement is good. Is it important, not really. (laughter) He thinks that just as he was grasping at straws, they are grasping at straws. Is he terribly attached to it? Not really.

Steven: The LDS Church announced the rebuilding and restoration of the Nauvoo Temple. What is your energetic attachment to that temple?

Suzanne: He says that he was trying to create a home and safety and a moment of understanding. Is it fun, is it great, are people going to put a lot of importance on it? Yes. Is it important? No.

Steven: Joseph, what about modern Mormon temples in general?

Suzanne: He says that he has wandered around the temples to see what everybody was doing. He likes it, it has a lot of masonic qualities with secret doors and other secret things. It is a good metaphor.

Steven: The General Authorities meet each Thursday in the Salt Lake Temple. Have you ever been to any of these meetings?

Suzanne: Yes, he says that they are so slow and stuffy and just slow. Where is the passion? He prided himself on talking and lighting a fire under people. It is now so business like and so slow. If I had to make decisions this slowly I would not have gotten anywhere.

Steven: Well, Joseph, then maybe you would not have gotten into so much trouble either?

Suzanne: Yeah, he did not say that he was not a rebel. " They took my rebelliousness and toned it down. These poor old men are just trying to be something that they want to be." He is happy for them that they want to be that but that their self importance sometimes gets away with them. He thinks that they think more on a financial end rather than on a spiritual end.

Steven: Are there any coming announcements from the LDS Church in the next five and ten years that will be important?

Suzanne: There are tons of them, that will have wooh wooh to them, but not really big by comparison. They play it really safe but then again, "I am a rebel and would rather push the edge and get killed over it than acquiesce and back peddle." They take a position of strong safety because they do not want everything to fall apart even though within that circle there are strong opinions about things. No one is willing to usurp the safety.

Steven: Joseph, there is one of the members of the Quorum of the Twelve named M. Russell Ballard and I do not know if you know him or not. The back ground behind my next question is that I attended a gathering of your direct descendants here in Salt Lake City in November of 1998. A person there had a conversation with Elder Ballard which led to your descendants becoming more organized. Are you privy to that conversation?

Suzanne: He said yes, but that it is not that important of a conversation. He thinks that there is strength in keeping the Joseph Smith line and giving it importance. He feels it causes separation and a "better than and less than" and he did not want to create that. He says it is like the descendants of Plymouth Rock, stuffy, stuffy, stuffy group. "I do not want to get in to this stuffy group and want these people to get a life instead of pretending to get power from being a descendant of Joseph Smith"

Steven: Joseph, here is a quote from that conversation between that man and Elder M. Russell Ballard. "When Elder Ballard called me, he said, ‘Craig, I am not very far from the veil where I will stand before Hyrum and Joseph and do you know the first question that they are going to ask me? What have you done with my children? Craig I can't stand to the thought of me standing before them and going "I was an apostle, I had other things to do.' Craig take care of it, will you? "

Suzanne: He says, "I am going to be more mad at him for pushing people beyond their own comfort zone instead of listening to their own choices.

Steven: Joseph, are you acquainted with a deceased apostle named Bruce R. McConkie and if so what are your impressions?

Suzanne: He thinks that, "He is a strange egg, not that he did not have a sincere heart, but odd, extremely odd. There are eccentrics in every group and he has strong opinion eccentricity. and he would not have been considered normal if he had not done what he had done. It was like that he was so unusual that the only place he really fit was there ‘kind of' and even then it was a ‘kind of'. They just kind of went whoa, when he talked."

Steven: There is a current apostle named Dallin Oaks, your impressions?

Suzanne: He thinks that, "Is this guy really terrible? No. Does he have some heavy shadow? Yes. Is he totally on the up and up? Not really. Is he malicious? No. Is he hidden and secretive? Yes. His work in the Church is to constantly make atonement for his mistakes. He is hard on himself and perfectionistic, but he is hiding a deep seeded insecurity.

Steven: What is your opinion about the energetic use of money by the Brethren?

Suzanne: It is amazing to him how much money that they have now as compared to where Joseph was in his time. The money factor is a huge draw. People think that they can buy God and use money as a tool for strength and power. Not that some things work beautifully. Access to China and getting missionaries there is big now. The Mormons have so much money that they push with it and that gives it some negative energy.

Steven: Joseph, there are over fifty thousand missionaries in the world now, your impressions?

Suzanne: They try hard he says. He feels sad for those that have nervous break downs and are getting themselves killed by not seeing the danger that they are in. They are so idealistic and self righteous that they are vulnerable.

Steven: Joseph, is there an entity or being out there that you have not met and would like to meet?

Suzanne: Yes, Jack Nicholson, because he is so unruly, rebellious, a charmer and can sway anybody. He has that ability that Joseph Smith respects.

Steven: Joseph, out of all the people in the Bible, who do you like the most?

Suzanne: He says, "I am simple, I liked Christ. That was the one I wanted to focus on. I really like John the Baptist because he was quite crazy. He was fervent and fermented. That controlled insanity is exotic and I like that."

Steven: This past weekend was General Conference. Where were you, Joseph during General Conference?

Suzanne: (laughter) He says, "I was sitting on top of Angel Moroni's horn on top of the Salt Lake temple. (laughter) I thought I would try to get a little distance and move the energy a bit. They say the same thing over and over again. Does anyone get bored besides me? Where has the passion gone?"

Steven: Joseph, what about LDS women? I personally think that they are in a bad spot?

Suzanne: He thinks that on some levels they are on a worse spot than ever but the worst spot was in the 1920's. The Mormon Church has been very good at breeding passive women. There are a few that try to get out but they get excommunicated.

Steven: Joseph, please elaborate on the visions that you had in the Kirtland Temple.

Suzanne: He had that experience. The feeling tone from him is that he really did see these beings three dimensional and so to him they were right there in the building. They were very light and his experience is that he had a direct communication with Jesus and all these powerful angels.

Steven: After you died, what has become of you and Jesus? Mormons believe that you are right next to Jesus in heaven.

Suzanne: His comment is kind of funny. He says, " I did a good job of creating my own heaven. I created what I wanted with my own intention and that is not to say that my creation may not be a bit limited.". His connection to Jesus is still so strong that there is still that connection. At the same time, he says, "Jesus can come see him anytime that He wants, but it is like he is not quite up to the Jesus level." He is definitely not on the lowest level, but he has created a particular heaven and so is now responsible for that particular heaven and there are all these Mormons that aspire to that particular vibration of heaven. So he is now in charge of that domain, but Jesus is in charge of a bigger domain than his domain. Joseph's domain is aligned with Christ consciousness and unconditional love but is like a different flavor of ice cream.

Steven: Well Joseph, what to say about having that responsibility? Are you surprised at the following you have gathered?

Suzanne: Yes, he is a little surprised at the intensity with which some people aspire to that. Not that this is a lovely place, but it has its limitations.

Steven: So does somebody like me need to align myself to an organized group or club?

Suzanne: Groups or clubs give momentum like an arrow and a bow. The church is a bow and the person is an arrow. At a certain point the arrow flies free of the bow and the bow does not go with them. He recognizes that some people like safety. From his time period safety was important because of the raucous and chaotic times. He said that in his own defense that he was trying to protect safety for women. They did not have security, stability, family and died young. Men were being left with children and did not know how to raise them. There was a huge need for women to have security and the Church was originally constructed to help create this safety. In his odd way, his intention was to protect women.

Steven: Speaking of women, Joseph, the polygamy question is haunting the current organization. In fact Gordon Hinckley says that polygamy is not doctrinal. Would you mind sharing your reaction to polygamy and your activity and behavior with women?

Suzanne: (laughter) His comment was, "I love women! I loved women! They are beautiful and wonderful. I had a huge amount of life force energy and passion that needed to be expressed and I created a code that I hoped would give women safety and security and so that they would not be abused and used and at the same time satisfied my need, fantasies and desires." His comment again was that he just loved women and that he was a sensual, sexual man.

Steven: Joseph, what has become of your first wife and you?

Suzanne: She hangs with him quite a bit. It is a lot of karma for them to hold together. It is sort of odd. The feeling tone is that there are tons of women connected to him and so many that I can not even comprehend. His wife, it is kind of strange is like she accepted her position, but did not always like it, but did not feel it her place to resist and disagree. Again, he says that you have to remember that is where she came from.

Steven: I have read that you loved your children, the ones that you lost and the ones that you left after your death?

Suzanne: He was very passionate about his children and family. It was a huge loss to lose any of them. He is a very sensitive and feeling man and considered each child a gift and very special and wanted each of them to feel that specialness. There is a very homey quality to him around his kids, and yet there is a very strong energy behind how he dealt with them. He was very firm, but the feeling tone is that they would just melt his heart and that he would take great pride in them.

Steven: Joseph, you died when you were thirty nine years of age. How do you feel about how and when your life ended?

Suzanne: He says that was definitely not what I wanted. His comment was, "In my arrogance I really believed that I was not going to die. I expected myself to get control over the situation. And that was my arrogance and not wanting to recognize other people's anger and what I stirred inside of them. I generated a lot of fear. It was my shadow coming to get him so to speak. Up until the very end I thought a miracle would happen and that God would reach down from the sky and stop this." He said he was so puffed up with his own self importance at that point that he expected it and was shocked when it did not happen. It was sort of a strange experience. It was not fun for him because he recognized that he was ungrounded and basically got taken out for his arrogance. And rightfully so he said, at that point because he was a little out of synch and not as clear as he tried to look. It was better that he got taken out before he caused more damage because he thinks that he would have exaggerated things even more so. He thinks that he was not whole at that point.

Steven: Joseph, in the current LDS Church they have the temple ceremonies where people are sealed in efforts to be exalted to the highest level in the Celestial Kingdom ?

Suzanne: He says, "Yes, the highest level of the Joseph Smith kingdom!" (laughter) He says that there are some levels above this. The beauty of this, he says that beings that do not have a lot of conscious vibration through the process can alleviate their soul vibration to a higher level. For some beings it is actually quite a jump and in their next life time come on a totally different level. To some beings it is actually an enormous leap and it is a good thing but for other beings, he says, is a step down. (laughter)

Steven: Joseph, what was the deal with masons and the temple rituals and ordinances?

Suzanne: He thinks that he loves magic. "I loved magic and anything that drew in magic and anything that transcended the suffering of humanity. I lived during a period of great suffering so ritual was one of the few tools that inspired. Singing was another one, but ritual was very important. It gave some solidity to faith and substance to something surreal."

Steven: How about the way that you handled money and your financial practices?

Suzanne: He is laughing. He says that he handled it, "His way." (laughter) His comment again was this his self importance was such that his way was fine. He had enough power that he was not really questioned. He did have questionable practices though and not one hundred percent for sure. He said that we were living in a very chaotic time period and there was a lot of lack and there had to be at moments, a deception in order to put food on the table.

Steven: Joseph, are you acquainted with Jerald and Sandra Tanner? If so, what is your impression of them?

Suzanne: That they try hard, that would be the comment, that they try hard. They are not without connection. It is like there is a clouded lense and yet their intention is good. So it is kind of like being on scale of one to ten, he say, "I give them a seven for sheer intent. Their hearts are in the right place."

Steven: Who is Jesus or Jehova? Who is He really and what does he mean to you?

Suzanne: He says, "My whole life revolved around this character" (laughter) He calls it a character because he defined the character in a form that he understood and he says, "I do not at this point understand completely who this being is, though the mysteries of this person excite my and stimulate my creativity." He says that energy of this being is phenomenal, immense, wise and ancient and an enormous amount of clarity and more clarity than he has. And he recognizes it's ascended kind of quality and at the same he time aspires to be like it.

Steven: One of the foundations to the current Mormon church is the story of your first vision. What can you say about this?

Suzanne: Yes, he says that was his experience totally and it was an inspired vision and he really did see that. It is like on some levels that was his experience totally. He recognizes that the energy was so vast and so immense that he translated it the as best that he could because it was such a vast experience and more than one level of reality.

Steven: Is there a danger in somebody like me trying to make your experience my experience?

Suzanne: Absolutely, he says "but when one is learning to fly and wants to be an arrow, you need a bow. Once the arrow is flying it recognizes that there may be other ways to fly."

Steven: I do not know if you can see into the future. The current LDS culture says that Jesus should be showing up again soon to start the millennium and to vanquish the devil?

Suzanne: His comment is that what he understands and this is coming from Joseph's guides, and he knows it sounds strange that he would have guides, but he does. His understanding is that Jesus has come many times to this planet since he died. He comes in different forms and not always with all of his energy and intention. He has kept part of himself out and part of himself in, like going back and fourth a little bit. They think that or his comment is that there is already a being down here that holds this vibration. "Does he know that there is another fragment of this vibration coming down at the millennium?" To be honest he says, "I do not know, but I doubt it because there is so much fear down here." He thinks that the vibration comes in during time periods of unconditional love.

Steven: Joseph, do you know what DNA is?

Suzanne: Yes, you mean the strands?

Steven: Do you know more about that than we do?

Suzanne: Yes, there is a component to this ladder. He thinks that everyone thinks that it is a two rung ladder but it is actually a three rung ladder and the third rung is energy so you can not see it. That is the spiritual energy that runs through it. In the three runged ladder you change the spiritual energy and it changes the ladder. He thinks that is how the metamorphosis happens, it is just an energy vibration and a change in spiritual context.

Steven: I would like to share my gratitude to you, Joseph for your energy and sharing your nature with us.

Suzanne: He appreciates the opportunity to clarify because he understands his human weaknesses and fallibility as he got older. He also recognizes his inspired younger moments. In coming in and working with us he hopes to clarify certain things that were left incongruent. It helps him heal.

Steven: Joseph, I have been thinking of starting a group called "Magical Mormons" that would focus on the magic of your era. This would only be for positive energy as I have no interest in the dark side of magic. Do you have a reaction to this?

Suzanne: (laughter) He says, "Make it Magical Modern Mormons, because going back to my time period does not really serve the vibration now because now because the belief systems are so different. Take where we are now and go forward." He thinks that you can bring that magic in but the magic back then is very dense and it is dark and it is better to bring the magic in from now because it is lighter.

Steven: Joseph, you used peep stones, crystals and other items so are you saying do not do that?

Suzanne: He says that there are better tools. Not that crystals are not great tools and in any time period they are great tools. They need to be used with the intent of the time rather than the intent of the past.

Steven: Do you know who the Holy Ghost is? Is this a real entity or what?

Suzanne: He thinks that there are a couple of little weird twists with this one. He did not understand the angle when he was alive but that he understands the angle a little bit more now that he is dead. He thinks that whole point of the original Peter, a long time ago, was to minimize or totally extrapolate out all of the feminine influence possible in the church. So the Holy Ghost was to represent the feminine, the Devine feminine and at the same time they did not want it to appear that way. They wanted it to represent an energy because they said at the time before that everything was aligned as trinities, as Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Technically it was supposed to be male, female and God. So what happened is that father goes into the God category, and son goes into the male category and then the Holy Ghost is actually the feminine. But she is an unknown so they made it into a mystery and made it into an unknown. He says, "Not that every woman I ever made love to was a mystery, (laughter) so I am still trying to figure them out." He says that it was a ploy of Peter's to take the influence of the females out of the religion and keep it a male control. So as a result, he says that the Holy Ghost is the feminine influence and that it moves through religion and it is the energy that keeps religions alive because it is through women bearing children that religions can even continue at all. It is that magical spirit, that ghost like energy that enters a woman's body and allows the birth of a child. He thinks that it is an energetic form of the feminine. He says that it is too scary to make them real. "You get into trouble if they are real," (laughter) he says. "

Steven: Apparently, Peter got into trouble a couple of times?

Suzanne: Yes, he says that Peter basically had ecstatic experiences with the Holy Ghost which is actually like a cosmic orgasm kind of experience with the Devine feminine.

Steven: This appears like a negative or evil thing, that Peter, would deny the feminine.

Suzanne: Yes, he says that he was terrified of that.

Steven: So if Peter is some holy guy that Jesus likes and subverting femininity...

Suzanne: He is laughing. He says , "He did not say that Jesus liked him that much. Peter really like Jesus a lot."

Steven: So he was a groupie or something?

Suzanne: Well Peter was bright, powerful, opinionated and very out spoken and Peter was a leader. And Peter had the power (laughter) Peter Power (laughter) so as a result he had the strength and determination to create something and keep it going. Peter was argumentative with Christ and wanted to be loved the most, because he looked like he was always trying the hardest. Jesus knew that the trying hard that Peter did held an intense rage and Peter was like a coiled spring ready to erupt at any time. He did erupt quite frequently.

Steven: So why is Peter even around with his negativity and anti feminine energy in the restoration of your gospel, Joseph? This does not make sense.

Suzanne: He says that it is in the cycle of things. The cycle to him is interesting cycle because his feeling is that Peter started this and Peter will complete this. All through the process of this church and Catholicism he thinks that there was been plenty of sex and plenty of sexual popes and plenty of feminine influence in that nuns were the first doctors and nurses that started the first hospitals before women were allowed to do anything besides have babies. So it is like the Holy Spirit still moves through even though it may be a little quietly. He says that the spirit moves through Mormon women too in their own way. He thinks that the next pope will be Peter.

Steven: You mean reincarnated?

Suzanne: Because he of course started it he will have to complete it. "He started it so he has to complete it. Not that I will not have to do the same thing", he says.

Steven: So you will have to return to finish something as well, Joseph?

Suzanne: "Oh, yeah, look at what they have done and the karma is on me. So they took what I started with and went off in another direction and the karma is with me."

Steven: I do not understand. You started it and people have taken it on a detour, but your are still responsible?

Suzanne: Yes because he said that he was delusional in his ego enough to be so self righteous and so self important to make people believe in him rather than believe in themselves. So he is karmically responsible.

Steven: Mormon people believe that the Second Coming will have a grand scene in Missouri where you taught that the Garden of Eden was and the New Jerusalem will be built. I do not see the LDS Church building there or getting ready for that.

Suzanne: He thinks that one of the things that he intuitively or psychically picked up on when he was in that area, not being totally clear, hind sight being twenty twenty, that before the white man came that area was a huge cultural area. There were huge towns and log houses and a huge industrial and trade area along those rivers for the Indians. It was a come together point. What he picking up psychically was all this energy for that past time period. He does not think that Christ will show up there.

Steven: Joseph, so you do not buy in to the millennium and paradigm shift?

Suzanne: No, he thinks that all that is happening because if you look at the world and see all the bizarre stuff going on that something has to shift or break. He thinks, "Who says that Christ is not already on the planet."

Steven: I have a suspicion that what goes on down here on this planet are not that big of a deal and that energetically a lot more is going on in your realm. What do you think Joseph?

Suzanne: He says, "My realm is quieter and quieter does not mean there is not a lot going, but we are more organized because denser souls are placed in a denser area to handle and deal with those conflicts and the lighter souls are grouped together. It has a better structure.

Steven: Joseph, what do you do all day?

Suzanne: He says that there is a lot going on here. There are a lot of things happening with in the Church and he tries to give his gentle influence. The Church is like a train and I am like a ghost who stands in front of the train. The train runs right through the ghost.

Steven: Joseph, who is a woman that you know and that we know that you admire a great deal?

Suzanne: (laughter) He says, "I did not meet her personally but, Raquel Welch. I definitely want to meet her when she gets to this side because I am interested in passionate and emotional women."

Steven: Joseph, what about Mother Theresa?

Suzanne: He says that she is very nice, sensitive, sweet and endearing person who carried a lot of pain with her out of this existence.

Steven: Joseph, have you ever been to or are you aware of Brigham Young University? If so, what is your reaction?

Suzanne: (laughter) His comment is, "It should be Joseph Smith University!" (laughter) He says, "It is clean, a model place, quiet, good activities, the people try very hard, the level of education is high but rather opinionated. The comradery is great but his greatest sorrow is that once everybody gets married the energy changes when they change wards and have higher expectations. These are kids and they should not be separated like that. They feel that they have to be perfect, but in the other wards it is loose and free flowing, learning and open to opinions and much more the way it should be all the way around. The ones that get stifled are the ones that get married while in school and get separated in to wards that are not as much fun. The wards for the regular people are fun and the wards for the married people are horrible. These poor young people get hooked and then get the shock of their life when they go into another ward and it is stuffy. Just like the quorum, stuffy. It is really slow and ‘no, this is how we are going to do it', and no longer about the individual growth of the people.

Steven: Joseph, where are you when BYU plays the University of Utah in football?

Suzanne: (laughter) He says,"I am in the red bleachers!" (laughter) There is just so much of the Mormon energy that you can handle at certain times. The BYU kids are so righteous and the U of U kids are more like real kids and much more fun to hang around. That is unless I am on the field tripping one of the BYU players." (laughter)

Steven: Joseph, what is your relationship like with your brother, Hyrum?

Suzanne: He says, "It has never been great and it is better. It is a challenge. Hyrum is tough, way opinionated and stubborn. Not of course that I am not, but we disagree on certain things. There is a jealousy factor and Hyrum was a little less charismatic and took a secondary position." Hyrum also would point out to Joseph when he was off track and Joseph did not like that.

Steven: I have a web page called The Salamander Society so, Joseph, is it OK if the Latter-day Saints get lampooned?

Suzanne: (laughter) "Absolutely, you have my official OK," he says.

Steven: Thanks for the interview Joseph.

Suzanne: He says that you are welcome. The guides say that you are welcome too and hope that everyone sleeps well tonight.


Comments Posting Area

A spiritual medium in Salt Lake City (the mecca or mormonism) that is not familiar with Joseph Smith or mormonism? LOL You are smoking some good shit dude. - 02/11/2014 - Richard


This is the type of junk Mormons buy into....Mormonism being, essentially an occult religious system, I'm sure that this will site well with many of them. - 03/04/2013 - Scripture focus


Derren Brown has exposed frauds with his BBC Tv shows and one of them are channels. This one is phony as can be because one thing that exposes frauds when it comes to this stuff. Can you guess it? IF you've figured it out you're on the right track. If not then you think my comment is irrelevant. - 12/25/2008 - semenSam


Wow! this is pretty wack! This lady must have been on crack and shuvling crap to you. You have no right to post this! You are extremely rude and need a life apparently. - 04/30/2008 - the mormon girl


The following is words of a voice that spoke to me from within a dream.

"Gazelem did as he was asked," and with grave dissappointment "but he asked for something to help."

By "Gazelem," I knew that she meant Joseph Smith, and by "something," I knew that she meant his seerstone. In my searchings (inner as well as outer) about this man, my conclusions are these; he was into charm (the idea of magic was enchanting to him), his feeling of self-importance led to a greater emphasis on himself than the religion, and he was given so much power toward the end of his life that he began to lose control of his mind. Despite this but because of it as well, he and his work are valid to me. I believe that truth lies within his teachings... great treasures of knowledge, even hidden... for those who seek. - 12/18/2007 - Seeking Gazelem


I think this reading is 90 % correct. Good stuff. I could feel Joseph Smith's spirit through it. - 05/01/2005 - anon


I myself am a clairvoyant, and have been visited by Joseph Smith Jr. several times, and have even been in some of the record chambers in the caves in upstate New York.

There is some truth in this channeling, but also a lot of bogus information formed from two places, Suzanne and information being pulled from Steven. One thing you have to be careful with channeled messages and that I have noticed a lot of times that the message received is quite often limited to what the receiver will accept and understand, as well channeling pulls in intelligence from anywhere, unless you protect yourself with the light of Christ which I do not seeing her do here, you can pull information in from the person you are reading, other spirits or the mass consciousness that people's mind's have created of Joseph Smith.

This channeler lives in SLC and does reading for many many former Mormon's - to say that she is not familiar with Mormon teachings or Joseph Smith is simply a plain out lie.

When comparing this to history, as well as my own personal communications with Joseph, there are far too many holes, lies and mistakes in this channeled message to be taken seriously. I am not a Mormon but there is plenty of evidence being unearthed in New York, Michighan, Ohio's that a white race of people did live there and many stone boxes have been unearthed with metal plates, even just 3 miles north of Cumorah.

This reading is even laughable when at points in the channeling Joseph Smith still supposedly does not know what was real and what wasn't real? Cmon hes been in spirit since 1844 with unlimited amount of knowledge and can see past, present and future as clear as day. There is simply a lot of bullshit placed into it by Suzanne to get her money's worth.

Yes Joseph has reincarnated since then, on average everyone reincarnates about every 10-20 earth years, sometimes faster. And for him to take the karmic responsibility of all Mormons over the past 150 some years - that just throws out the theory that will we answer for our own transgressions now doesn't it?

A spirit such as one as Joseph doesn't waste energy to come down and shoot the bull like this. He has more serious matters to attend to. - 08/29/2004 - Enoch


You talk of how the book of mormon doesn't line up with the bible. Maybe you need to examine yourself and your pursuits and read the bible because it has very clear statements saying to stay away from mediums and wizards, astrologers, etc. read Isaiah. Your whole site is about trying to figure out ways to convince people that the True and living Gospel is false, it's only your opinion, there is no fact in opinion. you said it yourself, you sought out the most respected medium in salt lake to talk with the Prophet Joseph Smith. Why seek the dead among the living? Ask Heavenly Father he is the only one who can tell you, and you need to be humble and open so that the spirit can tell you.- Anonymous- 08/07/2004

That was great! Really enjoyed it. Obiously JS has a little corner of the Astral all fixed up nice, a 'Celestial Kingdom', it's a real hoot if you see where it is in the big view of things though. - 02/27/2004 - from kenneth


Totally confusing! No real picture of the man or the truth about anything Just maybe's I do not think a man that had all of those people leaning on him, a place to live, food and all that. had an easy job. When SEX is the most important subject you can discuss with a sould that has departed, you have a problem. It is funny tho' I would imagine that if she interviewed Jesus, it would most likely be all about his SEX life too. Ha Ha. - 01/11/2004 - anon


Call me a sucker, but it was so convincing. I felt as if I was listening to Joe himself. I'm going to read it again. - 07/07/2003 - anon


I wish he would have asked Joseph if he masturbated much and how he learned how to do it.... also would have asked if he watches the missionaries masturbate on their missions. - 05/21/2003 - anon


Iwish you would have asked him who he really wanted to succeed him as prophet, Sidney Rigdon, Joseph the III or Brigham Young - 05/20/2003 - from community of christ member


Wow, are you guys really serious CHANNELING!!! Boy there really are some wierdo's out there. I'm sure even if The great Jospeh Smith came to talk to you in spirit he would have no negetive connotations to anyone. Three-dimensional beings!!! Give me a break Joseph Smith saw what he saw and God the Father Appeared to him. I Love that man with all my heart. He was a true prophet and he did receive the Gold Plates which is now the book of Mormon. I also know that Christ lives. How do I know? I asked the father in prayer and I received my answer. I wish all of you would do the same. Amos 3:7, Moroni 3:5 - 04/18/2003 - anon


I love how all the Mo's come out of the wood work to say that channeling is a load of crap (and it is) because when I say there religion is bogus they have a HISSY FIT. Oh well, the LDS church was built on double standards. - 05/26/2002 - from Hlfhumn


Seances are as common in our Chinese culture as talk shows are in American culture. You'll never know if it was just a big stage show or if it's for real. In this case, I just find it too incredulous to believe it's for real! Joseph Smith and him floating around the Angel Moroni, his own created realm of heaven!! Where do you guys get that ideas from???

If you really do know Joseph that well, your story will be a lot more credulous! But anyway, if this was meant to be a joke, I'll just laugh it over then! ->05/11/2002 -


I think I never laughed quite so much! I'm a "believer" (RLDS TRADITION) but that was a funny piece. We've got to be able to laugh at ourselves a little! Sincerly.
Seventy Patrick C. Labbe>
World Church of Jesus Christ


Hmm. This was far too plausible to be really funny. Very, very good. - 01/28/2002 - Matt


You have "out Smithed" the man, Joseph Smith, himself with this ridiculous seance. - 09/14/2001 - anon


My sister is into paganism and channeled him once and came up with similar messages and answers. It was real interesting to read your version. - 09/10/2001 - anon


When I read about J. Smith in this context (bipolar disorder, etc), it's really hard for me not to feel sorry for the guy. In fact, it makes me want to cry, because a similar experience was what led me to begin questioning the entire Church, and the spiritual dominoes started to fall, so to speak, and I realize that if I had remained, I'd have turned out with the same problems. My story is this:

I was seeing one of (I thought) the nicest guys you can imagine: hard-core TBM, returned missionary, degree in Physics, gentle and soft-spoken, innocent and guileless to the point of ridiculous. I wasn't just "in love" with this fellow, I really liked him as a person. His name is (at least, I hope he's still around temporally...) Andy. Shortly after we began seeing each other on a constant basis, frightening things began to happen, and I thought that I was the one losing my mind (since we're taught in the church that the woman must submit to the "priesthood", and how can such a powerful presence as that bestowed by the priesthood be wrong or in need of psychiatric assistance?)

Andy had moved to a different state from the one we met in to attend graduate school. When he left, we were "just friends". After he was gone, I realized the extent of my feelings for him, and wrote him telling about them. His first response was to say "I'm sorry, but I don't share your feelings." I was hurt, but respected his emotions.

Next thing you know, he starts sending me gifts, which he never had before. Then calling me every night. Then he tells me that he really does have feelings for me, and that he's coming back (he never did start graduate school; they wouldn't accept him, and in a few paragraphs I think you'll understand why,) to see me and talk about "our life together."

Understandably flustered, I fasted and prayed about this whole about-face for the three months it finally took him to come back, and recieved "answers" that were decidedly amorphous -- eg, psyching myself into something that felt weird, since he'd "changed his mind" about me so drastically for no apparent reason that I could detect. Naturally, I did the LDS psych-out on myself and assumed that he had "received a confirmation from the Lord about the correctness of our relationship." Keep in mind that I firmly believed this, and that I came to truly believe that I had received the same confirmation -- indeed, received it FIRST, since I'm the one who told him how I felt. Mormonly, such a thing is generally made much of in dramatic fashion, as a "message from the pre-existence that you are meant to be together." This, also, I firmly believed. Again in mormon fashion, this entire episode naturally worked to strengthen my "testimony that the church was true", because I was using church doctrine to justify my feelings -- your basic christian circular argument.

SO, Andy comes back to see me. And upon meeting him at the airport, I'm told that "this is just a friendly visit; please don't think that I'm serious about you."

WHAT?! Okay, so what happened to "I'm coming to see you so we can plan our life together."?

I assume he's tired from the flight and/or maybe a little shy (this is a thirty-two year old virgin we're talking about, here), so I take him to his sister's house, where he's staying, and tell him that if he'd like to do anything, to call and let me know. At which point he gets a confused look on his face and replies: "But I thought we were going to do temple work and talk moving to Utah with me?"

WHAT?! Okay, wait: this is just a simple visit and you don't want to get involved...but now I'm moving to Utah?

Okay, okay; temple endowments never hurt anybody, and I'm not above moving to Utah. SO I show up at his sister's place at seven, we drive to the Temple to make the eight o-clock session, but OOPS! -- he never called to schedule any appointment. But he knows the temple president, who just happened to be there, who lets us in with a ward group. So I overlook this lapse.

So, there we are in the celestial room, and I whisper gently to Andy: "What was it that you wanted to talk to me about Utah?"

I receive a Patriarchal glare and the response: "What? Please don't talk here!"

OK, so: I figure, he wants to talk on the ride home maybe (damn, I can't believe what a good little mormon woman will put up with: I told my husband about this episode in my life, and he blinked at me quizzically and said: "YOU....?!") Nope: nothing on the ride home except about how Andy's sister and bro-in-law wanted to go to a certain school-sponsored amusement park the following evening and he'd meet me there at seven.

It went on like this for his entire visit. One morning, we'd make plans for me to live with Andy's youngest sister in Utah while I was finding a place of my own (I mean, HE CALLED AND TOLD THEM I'D BE COMING!), then that afternoon we'd meet for lunch and I'd get a lecture about how Andy just wanted to be friends. He'd drop me off for work in the morning as sweet-natured as a butterfly, then that afternoon I'd get pulled aside by the professor heading the research project I was working on and the fellow would very nicely point out that Andy had called for me when I wasn't in, and because he couldn't locate me became abusive to the point of screaming and using profanity into the receiver and had to be hung up on, and would I please ask him not to do this and WHY WAS I GOING OUT WITH A GUY LIKE THIS??! Sometimes when Andy would be driving, he would lose his sense of direction and we'd end up at a dead-end somewhere and he'd sit in the driver's seat and stutter to himself until I took action and suggested that he was tired and I should drive (no REALLY I don't mind...)

He returned to Utah without us ever coming to any decision regarding "our lives together". By this point, only the TBM's I knew still thought having a life with this guy was anything approximating a good idea. My non-LDS parents took me aside (I was a convert, can you believe this???!) and suggested that...umm, honey, perhaps Andy is gay?

I'd considered that, too, and even tried to broach the subject with him ("I'm not saying this to offend you, and no matter what I'll always be your friend and support you, maybe, like men?" He walked off on me without a word, and I didn't see him for three days.) What caused me to consider this was that he was reticent to ever touch or kiss me, and when he did, it was an experience similar to getting romantic with a department store mannequin. My nine-year-old stepdaughter gives more passionate embraces.

However, by the time my folks got the nerve to pull me aside and suggest that "maybe Andy isn't right for you, sweetie," I'd already come to that conclusion myself. Something inside me that had been slumbering for years had come half-awake, and had murmered words like "bipolar disorder" and "dual-personality disorder".

Which were, of course, words not used in the church (which will tell any member and any outsider that it has the lowest rate of mental problems among its members of any organization, a patent lie which I was to discover upon researching the church social services system.) Such ideas were in horrible juxtaposition to my "this was ordained by the Lord in the pre-existence" TBM testimony regarding my "relationship" with Andy.

So I went to "the authorities" with my concern for Andy's mental health and my concern for my own testimony. First, I went directly to his family and was told point-blank (or, as I first wrote, "point-bland" -- Freudian slip=-) "Oh, Andy's always been like that -- it's just how he is!"

At which point his sister, who had earlier sent me holiday gifts and invited me to lunches, etc., broke all contact with me. THEY CHANGED THEIR HOME PHONE NUMBER! So, I went to the Bishop of my ward. He refused to believe what I told him. So, then I went to the Stake President of another part of the state I lived in: I went to him because he was an old friend of Andy's family.

He was also concerned about Andy. But what can I do, he said: it's not my place to pry (though it's a Stake President's place to pry into the sexual lives of members whenever they apply for a temple recommend, the awakening part of my mind snarled.) I think you should just forget Andy and concentrate on your own value to the church (what about eternal marriage and the need for priesthood holders to have an eternal companion to attain celestial glory? What about the value of good works?...)

Then he pushed a missionary application across the desk at me an advised that this was the best way for me to get my mind off of men/Andy for the time being, and strengthen my testimony.

I wrote a letter to Andy begging him, if he'd ever felt anything for me at all, to obtain professional, NON-LDS psychiatric help for himself, because I cared about him.

That was the beginning of my path out of the church. Along the way, I had a conversation with a friend who confided to me that his fiancee was "silly": "She made me kiss all her stuffed animals goodnight before I left her house on Thursday, and said if I didn't, our wedding was off," and I had a Relief Society Coucilor obliquely threaten me with "excommunication" because I'd spent my birthday (which was also General Conference, so sorry) with my father enjoying myself, rather than being at church. And I had somebody I was "tutoring" through her science classes demand that I DO THE WORK FOR HER, or she'd talk to the Bishop and tell him that I wasn't exactly honest in obtaining my temple recommend.

I feel sorry for every last one of the above, psychologically-damaged souls. To form such a spiritually and psychologically-damaging religion, one must certainly be psychologically unstable themselves. So I also feel great pity for J. Smith, more than I had before, because I'd never seen the whole mess laid out so clearly. - 09/16/2000 - R.T.P.


This "conversation" actually created a lovely sense of compassion for me about Joseph Smith. I respect the work of Suzanne Wagner, I have had sessions with her and found her to be quite accurate. I quite enjoyed her version of Joe as a hugely egotistical, passionate, and charismatic leader!!! What's not to believe?? - 09/07/2000 - Lisa


I don't believe in seances, but this is just too weird for me. I don't know. I think a lot of this stuff could easily be made up, but again I don't understand that reincarnation stuff. I don't believe it either, or christianity. They both seem made up by men. - 06/20/2000 - cleansk8er


Approaching a medium in SLC to contact Joseph Smith, to me is like approaching a medium in Memphis in order to contact Elvis - his/her responses are almost certain to be clouded or influenced by prior knowledge and attitudes. You couldn't live in SLC for any great length of time without hearing (and forming some opinion) about Joseph Smith, just as you couldn't live in Memphis without gaining some knowledge of Elvis. - 03/04/2000 - Geoff


As an investigator of anti-LDS viewpoints, I notice that your page would probably get a lot better reviews if you could have made more reference to blacks and the priesthood, early apostles chewing tobacco, and so on. I would show no concern with this page nor give it any sense of consequence if it weren't for the nonmembers who might read it. Until you fully understand the church and the fact that a fake seance won't change the minds of the truly faithful, it would be better for you to simply leave us alone (it would also save you a lot of suffering and guilt later on). - 12/10/1999 - anon


I know with every fiber of my being.......oh forget it it was was a real treasure, thanks for the ride. - 08/05/1999 - anon


It is sad that you do this. - 07/28/1999 - anon


I found this very enjoyable and believable. I wish you could address the subject of the serious harm the church does in propagating the lie of the one true church and not allowing people to feel the higher vibration and higher state of conscientous for themselves. Yes, J.S. is responsible for this mess and the bad karma that he indirectly caused, Thanks. - 07/27/1999 - cbreish


In case no one noticed, the name of this site is Latter-day lampoon--lampoon means farce, satire. It is not meant to be taken seriously. Those of you who read this "interview" and believed it are fools. Why you are flaunted your ignorance astounds me. This is all ridiculous, absolutely ludicrous. - 07/26/1999 - anon


Great "interview"...just wish you had asked him some about my branch...the RLDS group and his descendents alive in that group! Thanks for the great lampooning. - 07/12/1999 - brylmormon


I haven't come to a firm conclusion on channeling, but this was very interesting reading (whether it was really Joseph or not). I would not be surprised if he really did have some of those opinions. Thank you for sending it. - 07/03/1999 - Monica


Very ammusing. I dont know, yet, my beliefs on communication with beings from an afterlife, but it was very (and i emphisize very) interesting. I always pictured Joseph as a much more energetic and real person than the mormons would lead one to believe. My great great grandfather knew him well and joined his church because of him, i think they were pretty close. I know for a fact that my grandfather3 was a very free and somewhat rebelious character and always figured that was their connection. Anyhow, not to ramble, but i did enjoy reading your comments. Interestingly enough, I was just telling a friend of mine I thought it would be fun to write a short book as though I was sitting down today and talking with Joseph, which is what you did "sorta". Anyhow, I enjoyed. - 07/02/1999 - Jim


This was absolutely terriffic!!! We really appreciate you taking the time and energy to write transcribe the sessions and send them out. It really follows pretty directly what I had already concluded but it was nice to have it come from JS himself. Man, does he ever like SEX!!! We look forward to more comunications from you and Thank you ever so much! We will send you the money for the tape transcript. Thanks again for sharing. - 07/01/1999 - Dave


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